How do Muslims (who read the NT) answer Luke 24: 19 -27?

[TonyBS]

Those parts of the Bible which agrees with Muhammad’s Revelation they have the right to acknowledge and revere it. Those parts of the Bible that “SEEM” to contradict the Revelation of Muhammad, they should put it down to the “we don’t know” basket for they should know that the meaning of this seeming contradiction will be clarified when Christ Returns (and Return He has, and the clarification has been given, and unity achieved)

1. And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not *

One would think in all probability that it was 'they that Crucified Him", thinking this death would silence a false Prophet.

They got it wrong

Regards Tony*

 

[MartinJordan]

Those parts of the Bible which agrees with Muhammad’s Revelation they have the right to acknowledge and revere it. Those parts of the Bible that “SEEM” to contradict the Revelation of Muhammad, they should put it down to the “we don’t know” basket for they should know that the meaning of this seeming contradiction will be clarified when Christ Returns (and Return He has, and the clarification has been given, and unity achieved)

Which Muslim group say they have the right revere verses from the NT which agree with their prophet?

You can kindly talk about unity in the other thread. Im not asking that here. Please focus on Luke 24 only.

1. And because of their saying (in boast), “We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah,” - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not *

So the Quran has no mention who they are. Thanks. Talk about conjecture.

MJ*

 

[MartinJordan]

One would think in all probability that it was 'they that Crucified Him", thinking this death would silence a false Prophet.

They got it wrong

Regards Tony

What are you talking about? There is no such verse in Luke 24 about false prophets.

MJ

 

[arthra]

Martin…

There is no connection for what you are looking for because the Qur’anic verses only mention the belief of the some of them who wanted Him crucified that they thought they had “killed” Jesus.

The verses are not a specific historical narrative account.

But they broke their covenant; and they rejected the signs of God; and put the prophets to death without justification, and said, “Our hearts are sealed.” It is God who has sealed their hearts, on account of their denial of the truth. Except for a few of them, they have no faith. (155) They denied the truth and uttered a monstrous slander against Mary. (156)

**They declared, “We have put to death the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” **They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been so].

And those who differ in this matter are in doubt concerning it. They have no definite knowledge about it, but only follow mere conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him. (157) God raised him towards Himself. God is almighty and wise. (158)

There is a recently published book "The Crucifixion and the Qur’an A Study in the History of Muslim Thought by Todd Lawson that may help you understand…

amazon.com/dp/1851686355/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=56318836403&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=s&hvrand=8085377097043683625&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_12xkbf43mk_e

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin…

There is no connection for what you are looking for because the Qur’anic verses only mention the belief of the some of them who wanted Him crucified that they thought they had “killed” Jesus.

The verses are not a specific historical narrative account.

But they broke their covenant; and they rejected the signs of God; and put the prophets to death without justification, and said, “Our hearts are sealed.” It is God who has sealed their hearts, on account of their denial of the truth. Except for a few of them, they have no faith. (155) They denied the truth and uttered a monstrous slander against Mary. (156)

**They declared, “We have put to death the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” **They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been so].

And those who differ in this matter are in doubt concerning it. They have no definite knowledge about it, but only follow mere conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him. (157) God raised him towards Himself. God is almighty and wise. (158)

Then “they” are not the Pharisees then?

MJ

 

[Reuben_J]

Martin…

There is no connection for what you are looking for because the Qur’anic verses only mention the belief of the some of them who wanted Him crucified that they thought they had “killed” Jesus.

The verses are not a specific historical narrative account.

But they broke their covenant; and they rejected the signs of God; and put the prophets to death without justification, and said, “Our hearts are sealed.” It is God who has sealed their hearts, on account of their denial of the truth. Except for a few of them, they have no faith. (155) They denied the truth and uttered a monstrous slander against Mary. (156)

**They declared, “We have put to death the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” **They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been so].

And those who differ in this matter are in doubt concerning it. They have no definite knowledge about it, but only follow mere conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him. (157) God raised him towards Himself. God is almighty and wise. (158)

There is a recently published book "The Crucifixion and the Qur’an A Study in the History of Muslim Thought by Todd Lawson that may help you understand…

amazon.com/dp/1851686355/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=56318836403&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=s&hvrand=8085377097043683625&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_12xkbf43mk_e

I can understand why Muslims hate the Jews so. They were put in a very bad light in the Quran.

 

[MartinJordan]

I can understand why Muslims hate the Jews so. They were put in a very bad light in the Quran.

It was mentioned here in this thread it was the Pharisees who were the “They”
In any case the link from one Islam website (see my earlier post) skipped verses from Luke 24 to even deny Christians were right that Jesus was crucified and killed, but only appeared to. So Christians also are not spared.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Which Muslim group say they have the right revere verses from the NT which agree with their prophet?

All Muslims respect the parts of the Bible which is aligned with Muhammad’s Revelation, not any group, ALL Muslims

So the Quran has no mention who they are. Thanks. Talk about conjecture.

MJ

It’s not conjecture, it’s the people that were responsible for His “seeming” death…that’s who they were.

The Quran doesn’t have to say “Johnny, Stuart, Joey and Paul thought they killed Jesus, but they didn’t, I tricked them”

Why is the specific identity of those that were responsible for Jesus’ crucifixion such an important thing for you? It is irrelevant to the meaning of the Quranic passage, a spiritual meaning.

.

 

[MartinJordan]

All Muslims respect the parts of the Bible which is aligned with Muhammad’s Revelation, not any group, ALL Muslims

Not so according to yourself.

"
Skipping verses has its roots in the ridiculous assertion that the Bible has been manipulated in some way too.

Seriously, unless you see it in the Quran, its man made rubbish."

Now, show me any Islamic website that uses the NT not skipping verses in Luke 24 and don’t deny manipulation by Cristians.

It’s not conjecture, it’s the people that were responsible for His “seeming” death…that’s who they were.

The Quran doesn’t have to say “Johnny, Stuart, Joey and Paul thought they killed Jesus, but they didn’t, I tricked them”

Why is the specific identity of those that were responsible for Jesus’ crucifixion such an important thing for you? It is irrelevant to the meaning of the Quranic passage, a spiritual meaning.

.

What is spiritual about it? It’s clearly an empty allegation.

Show the group who uttered allegation about Mary. This has to be answered by the Qur’an.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Who this “they” is, is again conjecture. Since Jesus was oppressed, tortured and crucified, there must have been some groups that wanted Him killed, and they were happy, indeed boastful, that they killed Him. This may be the Pharisees, among others. There is no Quranic verse as far as I am aware that indicates who “they” are…

.

So It is the Pharisees you assumed . But later you say it is a spiritual matter?

MJ

 

[Servant19]

So It is the Pharisees you assumed . But later you say it is a spiritual matter?

MJ

It’s a spiritual matter because as soon as Jesus “died” He was immediately releasing the souls from Sheol, so how exactly was He dead?

But the Pharisees couldn’t see this, so they boasted that He was dead…

.

 

[Servant19]

Not so according to yourself.

"
Skipping verses has its roots in the ridiculous assertion that the Bible has been manipulated in some way too.

Seriously, unless you see it in the Quran, its man made rubbish."

Now, show me any Islamic website that uses the NT not skipping verses in Luke 24 and don’t deny manipulation by Cristians.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I am saying. Muslims don’t say ALL of the Bible is corrupted, only the bits that contradicts the Quran.

Some Muslims obviously are even willing to omit Biblical verses, such is their own desperation. These souls are lost in my humble opinion.

What is spiritual about it? It’s clearly an empty allegation.

Show the group who uttered allegation about Mary. This has to be answered by the Qur’an.

MJ

It’s not an empty allegation. See my post above, it’s very Biblical.

The group who uttered the allegation against Mary, were again the Pharisees.

.

 

[MartinJordan]

It’s a spiritual matter because as soon as Jesus “died” He was immediately releasing the souls from Sheol, so how exactly was He dead?

But the Pharisees couldn’t see this, so they boasted that He was dead…

.

Show this in the Qur’an that souls were released from Sheol because of Jesus.

And what do the Pharisees believe about those who died?

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

You seem to be misunderstanding what I am saying. Muslims don’t say ALL of the Bible is corrupted, only the bits that contradicts the Quran.

Some Muslims obviously are even willing to omit Biblical verses, such is their own desperation. These souls are lost in my humble opinion.

It’s not an empty allegation. See my post above, it’s very Biblical.

The group who uttered the allegation against Mary, were again the Pharisees.

.

I thought all Muslims honored Jesus?

What Biblical verse shows the Pharisees making calumny against Mary during that time of the crucifixion?

And how is it humble to believe souls are lost?

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

The conjecture that is being claimed is against those that killed Jesus, thinking He actually died, not against those that walked with Him after His Resurrection.

.

Luke 9:22
He said, ‘The Son of man is destined to suffer grievously, to be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes and to be put to death, and to be raised up on the third day.’

 

[MartinJordan]

Luke 9:22
He said, ‘The Son of man is destined to suffer grievously, to be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes and to be put to death, and to be raised up on the third day.’

So far as I’ve seen Muslims don’t believe that Jesus suffered greviously. He was "replaced ".

It’s a bit of a mess.

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

So far as I’ve seen Muslims don’t believe that Jesus suffered greviously. He was "replaced ".

It’s a bit of a mess.

MJ

They have their own deceptive twist on it that’s for sure

 

[JimmyDFG]

It’s a spiritual matter because as soon as Jesus “died” He was immediately releasing the souls from Sheol, so how exactly was He dead?

.

A correction here … Catechism of the Catholic Church
631 Jesus “descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens.” The Apostles’ Creed confesses in the same article Christ’s descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:

Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[JimmyDFG]

It’s a spiritual matter because as soon as Jesus “died” He was immediately releasing the souls from Sheol, so how exactly was He dead?

.

Correction …
Catechism of the Catholic Church

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.” The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

 

[Servant19]

Show this in the Qur’an that souls were released from Sheol because of Jesus.

And what do the Pharisees believe about those who died?

MJ

No need to be the exact same recount Martin.

Quran says Jesus did not die, and still lives
Bible says immediately after crucifixion He released the souls.

Same outcome…



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