How do Muslims (who read the NT) answer Luke 24: 19 -27?

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hasantas said:
Did Messiah suffer from what? Did Jesus say that He was crucifixed and raised from death? The biggest suffering for prophets is when people do not believe and reject them. Otherwise there had been many prophets before Jesus who were suffering much and being killed very badly. If they had believed in Jesus they would not try to crucifix him but they did not achieve.
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Old Testament: Isaiah 53…

Who has believed our message

and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

and like a root out of dry ground.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,

nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by mankind,

a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.

Like one from whom people hide their faces

he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

Surely he took up our pain

and bore our suffering,

yet we considered him punished by God,

stricken by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,

he was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was on him,

and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray,

each of us has turned to our own way;

and the Lord has laid on him

the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,

yet he did not open his mouth;

he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,

so he did not open his mouth.

By oppression and judgment he was taken away.

Yet who of his generation protested?

For he was cut off from the land of the living;

for the transgression of my people he was punished.

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

and with the rich in his death,

though he had done no violence,

nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,

and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,

he will see his offspring and prolong his days,

and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

After he has suffered,

he will see the light of life and be satisfied;

by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,

and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,

and he will divide the spoils with the strong,

because he poured out his life unto death,

and was numbered with the transgressors.

For he bore the sin of many,

and made intercession for the transgression.
 
hasantas said:
Did Messiah suffer from what? Did Jesus say that He was crucifixed and raised from death? The biggest suffering for prophets is when people do not believe and reject them. Otherwise there had been many prophets before Jesus who were suffering much and being killed very badly. If they had believed in Jesus they would not try to crucifix him but they did not achieve.
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Yes I see little point but to say we can attest that they Did not Kill Christ. It is evident today they did not.

It is also evident that Muhammad is as real today as he was when Giving His message of God.

Regards Tony
 
Techno2000 said:
Old Testament: Isaiah 53…
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To me this is applicable to Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah as it covers ithem all in but a few words.

Great passage - thank you for the reflection.

Regards Tony
 
hasantas said:
Did Messiah suffer from what? Did Jesus say that He was crucifixed and raised from death? The biggest suffering for prophets is when people do not believe and reject them. Otherwise there had been many prophets before Jesus who were suffering much and being killed very badly. If they had believed in Jesus they would not try to crucifix him but they did not achieve.
Click to expand...
Answer Jesus first then be fair and kindly go back a bit:)

Luke 9:22-27

22 saying to his disciples , ‘The Son of Man must undergo great suffering, and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.’

23 Then he said to them all, ‘If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it. 25What does it profit them if they gain the whole world, but lose or forfeit themselves? 26Those who are ashamed of me and of my words, of them the Son of Man will be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27But truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.’

May peace reign in your heart as mine. Alleluia. What a beautiful Sunday it has been. :highprayer: Today’s Gospel was awesome. Luke 5: 1-11. Praise the Lord!

MJ
 
hasantas said:
Did Messiah suffer from what? Did Jesus say that He was crucifixed and raised from death? The biggest suffering for prophets is when people do not believe and reject them. Otherwise there had been many prophets before Jesus who were suffering much and being killed very badly. If they had believed in Jesus they would not try to crucifix him but they did not achieve.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church 557
"When the days drew near for him to be taken up [Jesus] set his face to go to Jerusalem."By this decision he indicated that he was going up to Jerusalem prepared to die there. Three times he had announced his Passion and Resurrection; now, heading toward Jerusalem, Jesus says: “It cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.”

560 Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem manifested the coming of the kingdom that the King-Messiah was going to accomplish by the Passover of his Death and Resurrection. It is with the celebration of that entry on Palm Sunday that the Church’s liturgy solemnly opens Holy Week.
 
TonyBS said:
To me this is applicable to Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah as it covers ithem all in but a few words.

Great passage - thank you for the reflection.

Regards Tony
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Luke 19:42
'If you too had only recognised on this day the way to peace! But in fact it is hidden from your eyes!
 
TonyBS said:
To me this is applicable to Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah as it covers ithem all in but a few words.

Great passage - thank you for the reflection.

Regards Tony
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It’s only about ONE man.

speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable** twist** to their own destruction,** as they also do to the rest of the scriptures.**

2 Peter 3:16
 
Techno2000 said:
It’s only about ONE man.

speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable** twist** to their own destruction,** as they also do to the rest of the scriptures.**

2 Peter 3:16
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I see it applicable to Jesus the Christ, but as Muhammad the Bab and Baha’u’llah shared in these predictions and even in many cases even suffered more, then it is also applicable to them as well.

The Jews did not accept Christ as there was a lot of Old Testament Predictions that just can not be reconciled with the mission of Jesus the Christ. If we look at the Revelations of Muhammad and the Bab we see some prophesy unfolding in them and if we look at Baha’u’llah all the prophesy that could not be reconciled with Jesus the Christ unfolds in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

The Bible has foretold of them and they are all but of the One Holy Spirit of God.

Regards Tony
 
Techno2000 said:
It’s only about ONE man.

speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable** twist** to their own destruction,** as they also do to the rest of the scriptures.**

2 Peter 3:16
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Given this chapter is about the day of the Lord and that as a Baha’i we believe that has unfolded in Baha’u’llah, it could be rightly said this this passage is applicable to those that have not yet recognized Him, it could be then the last 2 passages following 2 peter 3:16 should also be considered by the poster

2 Peter 3:17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

In Christ there is much to know.

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
Yes I see little point but to say we can attest that they Did not Kill Christ. It is evident today they did not.

It is also evident that Muhammad is as real today as he was when Giving His message of God.

Regards Tony
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Jesus was killed. As he rightly prophesied that he would be, but then Glorified. Alelluia!

MJ
 
JimmyDFG said:
Tony. Do you believe Jesus suffer grievously and was put to death?
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Let it be known that the physical crucifixion of Jesus Christ is attested to have TAKEN PLACE with absolute conviction in the Baha’i Writings

.
 
JimmyDFG said:
If the Catholic Church went with what Muhammad taught would it be a Christian? As Jesus has said in John 14:6-7
6 Jesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

7 If you know me, you will know my Father too. From this moment you know him and have seen him.

Islam denounces the Holy Trinity. “In Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is a single being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a communion of three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Within Islam, however, such a concept of plurality within God is a denial of monotheism and foreign to the revelation found in Muslim scripture. Shirk, the act of ascribing partners to God – whether they be sons, daughters, or other partners – is considered to be blasphemous in Islam. The Qur’an repeatedly and firmly asserts God’s absolute oneness, thus ruling out the possibility of another being sharing his sovereignty or nature.There has been little doubt that Muslims have rejected Christian doctrines of the Trinity from an early date, but the details of Quranic exegesis have recently become a subject of renewed scholarly debate.”

Furthermore In the Catechism of the Catholic Church 66 states: “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries. "
67: "Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
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There is nothing un-Biblical about what Muhammad taught if explained through a spiritual lens.

Baha’u’llah has thankfully given us that lens and there is hope that Muslims ad Christians may enjoy fellowship through this lens.

The testing of every single soul depends on whether they have the courage to look through a spiritual lens rather than a literal lens.

Let us pray for God’s mercy 🙂

.
 
Techno2000 said:
Old Testament: Isaiah 53…

Who has believed our message

and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

and like a root out of dry ground.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,

nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by mankind,

a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.

Like one from whom people hide their faces

he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

Surely he took up our pain

and bore our suffering,

yet we considered him punished by God,

stricken by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,

he was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was on him,

and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray,

each of us has turned to our own way;

and the Lord has laid on him

the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,

yet he did not open his mouth;

he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,

so he did not open his mouth.

By oppression and judgment he was taken away.

Yet who of his generation protested?

For he was cut off from the land of the living;

for the transgression of my people he was punished.

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

and with the rich in his death,

though he had done no violence,

nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,

and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,

he will see his offspring and prolong his days,

and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

After he has suffered,

he will see the light of life and be satisfied;

by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,

and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,

and he will divide the spoils with the strong,

because he poured out his life unto death,

and was numbered with the transgressors.

For he bore the sin of many,

and made intercession for the transgression.
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Thank you for bringing this up. Because of Isaiah 53 this is where Jesus referred to in Luke Chapter 22: 36-37

36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

Which then one can refer to the OP reference when Jesus talks to his followers. Just keeping the topic where I intended it by starting this thread.

As St. Luke wrote in his first chapter:

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Amen.

MJ
 
Servant19 said:
There is nothing un-Biblical about what Muhammad taught if explained through a spiritual lens.

Baha’u’llah has thankfully given us that lens and there is hope that Muslims ad Christians may enjoy fellowship through this lens.

The testing of every single soul depends on whether they have the courage to look through a spiritual lens rather than a literal lens.

Let us pray for God’s mercy 🙂

.
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You mean for Christians and muslims to except the baha’i faith
 
Servant19 said:
Let it be known that the physical crucifixion of Jesus Christ is attested to have TAKEN PLACE with absolute conviction in the Baha’i Writings

.
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Is there an absolute conviction in the Baha’i writings about the Resurrection of Jesus?
 
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