How do people who use contraception go to confession?

[Psalm30]

Psalm30:

How in the world is it a double standard to tell someone asking invasive questions to mind their own business?

Because you have to be worrying about someone elses business to care enough to say something in the first place.

Well, he himself has said repeatedly that he wants to be called out when he’s doing something wrong. And it’s wrong to ask people what they say in Confession.

He initiates the invasive questions, talks about how he wants to be told when he’s doing something wrong, and then tells someone who calls him out on it to “mind their own business” — now that’s a double standard.

 

[Pattylt]

So you are ok with accepting a loss of 65% of your current congregations? This is the reality you could face. You would then have a more devout and obedient congregation but it would be much, much smaller. I’m not sure the church is willing to really do this? I could also be very wrong!

 

[IdaCatholic]

It isn’t a circus. It is seven kids. I homeschool them and feeding them is not hard at all. My 14 year old loves to recreate food network dishes. Food attainment and food prep is not the hard part. Dishes, and laundry are. My sister has 2 kids. She is a SAHM who puts her kids in preschool from age 3 on. Her house is spotless, she is wealthy. She has a harder time with her two than I do with 7. It isn’t a “new” perspective at all. In fact it is as old as humanity itself.

 

[IdaCatholic]

I’ll answer for myself. Yes. OF COURSE we should be ok with losing a percentage of people if keeping them means cooperating in evil or sin or anything unholy. The purpose of the Catholic faith is to spread the gospel and save souls. Lying and ignoring evil does not do this. In fact because there is some fear in losing a number of people we do more damage to the entirety of the Church by not being truthful.

Bottom line there is a lot of people opening thier mouths and saying Amen to the Body of Christ Himself and then following it with opening thier mounths and saying “amen” to the god of sexual sin and death in the form of a pill.

 

[Pattylt]

Thanks for your thoughts! Another question then…do you think the Church feels the same? Do you think the Vatican would be willing to lose 65% of their parishioners? Why or why not?

 

[IdaCatholic]

Let’s be real clear. Losing even one soul is a tragedy. Losing 65 percent of a billion people is an enormous tragedy. Compromising God Himself in a bout of ignorance or false mercy is downright demonic and will lose more souls than your 65 percent number. I would hope the Vatican would not mortgage my soul and my children’s souls to falsly coddle others. The Church has historically been unpopular, counter culteral, and a defender of the Truth without lies. So has Christ. Christ was “ok” with people walking away from a hard teaching. (more than 65 percent) and He did not change his unpopular teaching. I would hope His Church follows His example.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

It only looks like their part of the Church if they’re gonna leave like that.

 

[Pattylt]

I realize it’s a hard question to ask and answer! I realize that a 65% loss would be catastrophic for the Church itself and certainly it would be hard on those that stay. I also think it’s a possible scenario. If the Church really pushed its faithful to accept and obey its commands, it would most likely shrink dramatically and experience all that would accompany it…loss of donations, loss of charities, etc. But while much smaller, it would also be more true to its mission. To say that you hope the church would stand Her ground is admirable…I’m a skeptic and I question if She really would, if push came to shove. JMHO.

Thanks for your answers!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The Church does not teach that it is “best practice”. I think it is a good thing for a penitent to be as candid and open with their confessor as possible. A good confessor will help a penitent to see their sins for what they actually are, and to draw them out of their “comfort zone” if need be.

I am doing no such thing. I do think it is “best practice”. I am entirely open to listening to the opinion that “you should not second-guess yourself, you should just assume that you are in good faith, that what you are doing is just fine, and if the priest has any questions, he will ask”. And what of the blurb that appeared on the E of C card of the parish I mentioned — “make this confession as though it were your last”. Does the Church actually teach that? Does it not? Is that good advice? Or could it be a recipe for scrupulosity? It did have an imprimatur (as did all printed works in those days) — does that make a difference?

I wear the scapular and pray the rosary. That, too, is in my opinion “best practice”. Does the Church teach that you absolutely have to do that? Of course not. Do many in the Church recommend it? Yes, they do. Same with making a rigorous examination of conscience.

It is part of any good examination of conscience for the penitent to “second-guess” themselves , and ask in brutal honesty — “fearlessly”, to use the language of 12-step programs — whether there is any behavior that they are rationalizing or living in denial about.

Anyone with scrupulosity needs to go to a priest they trust, a priest totally faithful to the magisterium, tell them their situation, and ask if that priest can hear their confessions regularly.

For those who are not scrupulous, yes, I think they need to approach examination of conscience in a spirit of “am I sure that I am not committing these sins, and is there anything I’m rationalizing or soft-pedaling myself over?”. And for those who use ABC and have up till now made up their minds that ABC is OK, then yes, they need to come under conviction, distressing as this may be to them.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Well, he himself has said repeatedly that he wants to be called out when he’s doing something wrong. And it’s wrong to ask people what they say in Confession.

Is it wrong, or is it just rude (or perceived to be rude)? Two different things.

To put a finer point on it, I did not ask “people” what “they” say. I set forth scenarios and asked if they could reflect what people in general say. If someone wants to tell everyone what “they” say, that’s their choice.

I do not think it is “wrong”, i.e., a sin against God, to ask what people say in confession. How is it a sin to say, in so many words, “hey, would you mind breaking your own seal of confession, and tell me how you deal with this particular sin in the confessional?”? Someone can choose to disclose this, or they can choose not to. I do not make a habit of blabbing about my own confessions, but if it can help someone, I don’t mind talking about it. Once upon a time, a priest gave a sermon in which he publicly admitted to a sin of uncharity against a poor person. He ended the sermon by saying “…and, yes, I went to confession”. That was one of the most inspiring sermons I’ve ever heard. (Sadly, that priest later left the priesthood. I was flabbergasted. I would never have thought he would do something like that.)

I have publicly admitted, here on CAF, that one time, when I could no longer convince myself, no longer rationalize it to myself, that I had a sufficient reason to use NFP, I took the matter to the priest in confession. I told him “regardless of whatever excuses I might have made up to this point, I can no longer make those excuses, and I am here to lay the entire matter before Almighty God in this confessional”. Is there anyone else in the world who might need to confess something like this? Or am I the only one? I have my thoughts, but given that those thoughts might be combustible, I’ll keep them to myself.

 

[Jen7]

I have a really REALLY hard time with the concept of being required to discuss reasons for using NFP with a priest or spiritual director. Is this truly what the Church requires? I sincerely hope not.

I am incredibly uncomfortable talking about the deepest, most intimate and private part of my marriage with anyone other than my husband, and I dare say that this kind of thing is part of what gives anti-Catholics the notion that the Church is all about power and control. Needing permission from your religious leaders to have or not have another child — or to have or not have sex with your spouse? I can see how that would make someone not want to be Catholic, or to be Catholic and ignore that particular aspect.

Wow, no way is that required!!! The decision is between the spouses. I would never go to a priest about whether to use NFP to avoid a pregnancy or not. I believe God works within the sacramental marriage to help the spouses discern these things. If I needed help I might go to a trusted friend, but I would not automatically assume a priest automatically has special insights for me.

 

[Jen7]

Anyone with scrupulosity needs to go to a priest they trust, a priest totally faithful to the magisterium, tell them their situation, and ask if that priest can hear their confessions regularly.

Scrupulosity needs OCD counseling, not a priest who will hear the person’s confession more often. Scrupulous people aren’t sinning - they just think they are.

 

[Psalm30]

be called out when he’s doing something wrong. And it’s wrong to ask people what they say in Confession.

1 Corinthians 13: Love is not rude.

To put a finer point on it, I did not ask “people” what “they” say. I set forth scenarios and asked if they could reflect what people in general say. If someone wants to tell everyone what “they” say, that’s their choice.

I think the distinction you are trying to make here is a bit nit-picky. Your whole thread is about wondering what people say in Confession, which I really do not believe is healthy or appropriate.

I do not think it is “wrong”, i.e., a sin against God, to ask what people say in confession. How is it a sin to say, in so many words, “hey, would you mind breaking your own seal of confession, and tell me how you deal with this particular sin in the confessional?”? Someone can choose to disclose this, or they can choose not to. I do not make a habit of blabbing about my own confessions, but if it can help someone, I don’t mind talking about it. Once upon a time, a priest gave a sermon in which he publicly admitted to a sin of uncharity against a poor person. He ended the sermon by saying “…and, yes, I went to confession” . That was one of the most inspiring sermons I’ve ever heard. (Sadly, that priest later left the priesthood. I was flabbergasted. I would never have thought he would do something like that.)

I don’t know what the Church specifically says about the matter, but it flabbergasts me that anyone thinks it is appropriate, helpful, or anything other than rude, to ask someone to share anything about what they say in Confession. If someone wants to volunteer the information, fine. But I wouldn’t dare ask. It might not make you or someone else uncomfortable, but it would make ME uncomfortable, and I’m going to go out on a limb that there’s probably at least one other person in the world who would feel violated by being asked what they said in Confession.

 

[DeniseNY]

I do not think it is “wrong”, i.e., a sin against God, to ask what people say in confession. How is it a sin to say, in so many words, “hey, would you mind breaking your own seal of confession, and tell me how you deal with this particular sin in the confessional?”? Someone can choose to disclose this, or they can choose not to. I do not make a habit of blabbing about my own confessions, but if it can help someone, I don’t mind talking about it.

That’s the pastor’s role; not yours (or mine, or anyone else’s).

 

[DeniseNY]

And further, if a parishioner came up to me and asked me about my confession after telling them to get lost, I think I’d tell the pastor.

 

[AlNg]

I would be interested to know how these EO priests justify this.

From what i have read, they don’t see too much difference (essential?) between NFP and ABC when the intent is to reduce the possibility of conception.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And further, if a parishioner came up to me and asked me about my confession after telling them to get lost, I think I’d tell the pastor.

I would not only tell the pastor, but I might threaten to call the civil authority because to me that would be harassment.

 

[DeniseNY]

I would not only tell the pastor, but I might threaten to call the civil authority because to me that would be harassment.

Indeed. Asking someone to bare their soul is worse than asking to bare a private body part.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

Because the questions he’s posing are not “random.”

Well of course not. I didn’t think he asked people to write questions and then pull them from a hat. The random to which I was referring was to the people reading the questions. Any old Tom, Dick or Harry can read them and decide for themselves if they want to answer them. It’s not as though if you see a question on the internet you are compelled to answer it.

They are invasive, personal, and private.

To you, in which case, don’t answer it. Other people might not mind. It should be alright for other people to feel differently than you and to choose to answer it. Right?
Though the situation is slightly different, I have spoken to my son about things that were discussed in my confessions that I thought might be some help to him. I certainly don’t tell him everything, but if I think it’s useful I don’t have any problem with it.

Whether anyone is required to answer or not, it is extremely inappropriate to ask questions about what goes on in Confession.

What goes on in confession is private so long as you choose to keep it private. It isn’t mandatory for the penitent to keep the seal. It is mandatory for the priest. It’s perfectly fine to ask people who are willing to talk about things if they would do so. I’m not saying ask people that are leaving the confessional what they confessed, but here on CAF, asking people about a particular issue and waiting for willing participants to answer is a far cry from asking people face to face just what did they confess.

NO ONE should be speculating about what goes on when anyone other than him/herself is in the Confessional.

It seems to me the question is being asked in order to remove speculation. If people choose to answer of their own volition, that is their prerogative. It might surprise you or it might not, but people wonder why other people do things.

It’s not healthy or appropriate for the person doing the speculating.

I wonder why the priest in the thread didn’t mention that.

 

[Toledo]

How do people who use contraception go to confession? Liturgy and Sacraments

From what i have read, they don’t see too much difference (essential?) between NFP and ABC when the intent is to reduce the possibility of conception.

One is to not use a gift and the other is to abuse a gift from God.

As a side note to the ongoing discussion, I have never heard, seen, asked (or any method of investigation ) any Catholic inquire about the sins confessed by another in Confession. This includes working with RE kids for 20+ years. No one wants to know what another said in Confession.