How do Protestants deal with James on faith and works?

[AugustTherese]

No, sadly, we are divided

You may be divided, but we, the Catholic Church, are not divided; we are One just as the Father and Son are One.

You are not Catholic, you are Anglican. So, yes, we (you and me) are divided. But, don’t project your divisions on the One Church Christ founded that remains perfectly united in the One Communion of His Eucharist, where no amount of schism and heresy can ever prevail and divide His One Church.

Instead, come home to the Church you were baptized in. We will welcome you with open arms, with pure love!

 

[Agathon]

Heading that route? That’s a different take than what most Catholics here will say.

Development of doctrine is an accepted fact in the Church. I thought you knew that.

 

[JonNC]

Development of doctrine is an accepted fact in the Church. I thought you knew that.

Has to be based on a teaching of scripture anD Tradition. Has to have support from the ecumenical councils.
One can infer and indeed should recognize primacy, but not supremacy

 

[Agathon]

Has to be based on a teaching of scripture anD Tradition.

There are numerous proofs for papal supremacy using both Scripture and Tradition.

 

[JonNC]

You may be divided, but we, the Catholic Church, are not divided; we are One just as the Father and Son are One.

We are indeed one in Him, in our Baptism, but our sins have caused us divisions here on earth

You are not Catholic, you are Anglican.

And I could respond in similar ways, but I won’t.
You are indeed a Catholic in the Latin Tradition. I am Catholic in the Anglican Tradition.

Instead, come home to the Church you were baptized in. We will welcome you with open arms, with pure love!

Thanks. I honestly appreciate the intentions of the offer.
Understand that I couldn’t do it in good conscience, believing what I believe about the primacy of the pope. In that realm, I’m closer to Orthodoxy

 

[AugustTherese]

I am Catholic in the Anglican Tradition.

Every Catholic, Latin or East, is in full communion with the Pope. There is no such thing as being Catholic in the Anglican Tradition.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

I am Catholic in the Anglican Tradition.

Every Catholic, Latin or East, is in full communion with the Pope. There is no such thing as being Catholic in the Anglican Tradition.

Sure there is. I’m one.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Has to be based on a teaching of scripture anD Tradition.

There are numerous proofs for papal supremacy using both Scripture and Tradition.

Name one from the early councils or scripture

 

[Agathon]

Luke 22
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

Notice how Jesus prays for Simon when all of the men are going to be sifted. And notice how Jesus says that Simon is to “strengthen” his brothers, which puts him in an older brother or even father figure in Jesus’s stead.

 

[AugustTherese]

Sure there is. I’m one.

And, I’m a member of the NBA because I can dribble a basketball.

Anglicanism is not a liturgical tradition approved by the Holy See. Anglicanism is a Protestant ecclesial community. It’s not up to you to decide if you’re Catholic, that is up to the Catholic Church.

 

[JonNC]

Luke 22
“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

Notice how Jesus prays for Simon when all of the men are going to be sifted. And notice how Jesus says that Simon is to “strengthen” his brothers, which puts him in an older brother or even father figure in Jesus’s stead.

And this proves supremacy of the Bishop of Rome? Why doesn’t it prove the Bishop of Antioch?

 

[JonNC]

And, I’m a member of the NBA because I can dribble a basketball.

Who do you play for?

Anglicanism is not a liturgical tradition approved by the Holy See.

The Holy See of Rome has no say.

Anglicanism is a Protestant ecclesial community.

Some Anglicans will say we are not Protestant, as Anglicanism was not a participant in the formal protest at the second Diet of Speyer, which makes sense since what the civil authorities there were doing did not impact people on the British Isles.

It’s not up to you to decide if you’re Catholic, that is up to the Catholic Church.

It isn’t up to those in communion with the pope Who is and isn’t Catholic , and it certainly is up to you!

 

[guanophore]

Luke 22

“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

Since Jesus’ prayer was singular (for Peter), everyone who wants to get in on Jesus’ prayer that our faith not fail better get in with Peter!

Anglicanism is not a liturgical tradition approved by the Holy See. Anglicanism is a Protestant ecclesial community. It’s not up to you to decide if you’re Catholic, that is up to the Catholic Church.

The Untold Story of How the CDF Created the Anglican Ordinariate

Here's why the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith during Benedict XVI’s papacy realized that it had to take charge of the reunion project.

www.ncregister.com

I expect you must disapprove of the Actions of Pope Benedict?

 

[JonNC]

An interesting article:

The CDF’s guarantee means the faithful of the Church, from now until Christ returns in glory, understand that the Anglican patrimony (and what in the Ordinariate is a truly restored English Catholic heritage that runs through the Anglican tradition all the way back to St. Augustine at Kent) is not just a treasure for the Personal Ordinariate, but is a treasure that belongs to “the whole Church.”

Thanks for sharing it.

 

[AugustTherese]

The Holy See of Rome has no say.

It isn’t up to those in communion with the pope Who is and isn’t Catholic

Then, could you explain to me who is responsible for determining who is in full communion with the Catholic Church and who is not? And, how do they determine who is and who is not?

 

[margaret42]

I agree with you. Jesus had faith in God the Father, but His divine works were shown as a means/sacrifice to free us.

 

[JonNC]

Then, could you explain to me who is responsible for determining who is in full communion with the Catholic Church and who is not? And, how do they determine who is and who is not?

Sure.
Start with John 3

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.
16For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Or Matthew 25 - the sheep and the goats.

And Matthew 13 - the wheat and tares.

Etc.

 

[MountCarmel]

Ianman - For those who ‘debate/argue’ the meaning of James on Faith and Works - then I suggest they also read Matt 12:33-37, and Luke 6:43-45.

[And for those who hold to ‘Sola Scriptura’ - if they have issues over papal authority, transubstantiation, and the sacraments, I would suggest they read the NT and the words of Jesus, through unobscured spectacles. The Catholic case is all there.]

 

[lanman87]

Ianman - For those who ‘debate/argue’ the meaning of James on Faith and Works - then I suggest they also read Matt 12:33-37, and Luke 6:43-45.

In Matt 12:34 Jesus tells us that “For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of”. Luke 6:45 says “A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.”

Both of those verses go perfectly with the reformed position on faith and works. Those who have faith are a new creation and have a changed heart and our lives (words and works) give evidence of what what God has done in us by His grace. Our words do not justify us in the sense they cause us to be made right before God, they justify us in that they show what is really in our heart. This is pretty much the position of evangelicals in the United States.

 

[Agathon]

But James 2 doesn’t square with the Reformed position, especially James’s statement that Abraham’s works completed his faith.