How do protestants explain the time between Christ and the reformation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eark
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
steve-b said:
You come from a completely different lineage. Your lineage comes from Luther, your father in faith, and all the others in revolt in the 16th century … down to this day.
Click to expand...
40.png
JonNC:
Steve, this is so patently false that it surprises me someone as knowledgeable as you would say it.
The false doctrine that the Eucharist is symbolic only has absolutely no link whatsoever to Luther.
Who , but the devil , has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body ? or, that is is the same as it signifies ? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil , that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine ; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present .
Surely, it is not credible , nor possible , since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only ; or the body of Christ is not there , especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them , had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present : but they are all of them unanimous.”
Click to expand...
-Luther
Click to expand...
when I said that to @ReadTheBible I was talking about all of his anti Catholic rhetoric he has been printing.

And it’s a bit rich Jon, for Luther to pick and choose which scripture he will follow and which scripture he won’t when he personally demoted 7 OT scriptural books to non scripture status in his bible, and had huge problems and almost removing Hebrews, and James, (calling it an epistle of straw) Jude, and Revelations, saying John couldn’t have written it.
 
Last edited:
steve-b said:
when I said that to @ReadTheBible I was talking about all of his anti Catholic rhetoric he has been printing.
Click to expand...
I guess you can call me ant-catholic but I’d rather say I’m pro-scripture 🙂

I give you passage after passage disproving purgatory or even the idea behind it and how the thought of indulgences (paying for gifs of God). You response is not to analyze the passages I give you but to give what your Church uses as passages to prove what their idea is about purgatory. Plus the passages you use I already discussed with another multiple times.

Catholicism is funny because they will read what they want into certain passages (see your examples of purgatory) but they want to take literal the passages that are so meant to be construed as figurative.

But we know the next answer will be but our church was here from the beginning (which isn’t true) so even though we change what we believe, add to, take away, for literally 1000’s of years, it’s all the same, but it changes, but its’ the same.
 
ReadTheBible said:
indulgences (paying for gifs of God).
Click to expand...
That is not what indulgences are. What you are calling indulgences sounds more like simony to me. First you must know what is actually taught before you can successfully argue against it, and your record (on either point) is poor to abysmal.
 
Climbing the sacred steps of Rome frees you from 7 years.

Following the Pope on Twitter, how many years does that free you?

But remember you have to watch live to get the pardon of sin from a man. He’s a man and nothing more and has no power to pardon sin.

I can’t wait for the scripture stevie-b will provide with Jesus saying, yes the Pope can pardon you from Purgatory for doing a walk-a-thon.
 
Last edited:
ReadTheBible said:
God alone can pardon sin.
Click to expand...
I will quote from the Catechism
Only God forgives sin

Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation."42 The apostle is sent out “on behalf of Christ” with “God making his appeal” through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."43
Click to expand...
 
Here’s the never ending part about this. The next Pope comes along and says “There is no such thing as indulgences for following Twiter”

You’ll have people saying see, this Pope contradicts the last but nope, the Church will say, it’s not on faith and morals.

It’s deceitfulness to a level that boggles the mind.
 
to misrepresent the beliefs of others is deceitfulness that boggles the mind.
 
Exactly. Catholicism is stating that Jesus said that the pardoning of sins is done by works because that is exactly how Catholicism rewards you by pardoning your sins.

Climbing steps = works
 
hope said:
to misrepresent the beliefs of others
Click to expand...
Pleeeeeas show me how I have misrepresented anything. You literally just provided text from the Catechism itself. I’m not making these things up about Rome. Rome says these things herself.

Is walking up steps a work?
Does Rome say you are pardoned 7 years worth of sins in Purgatory for walking up steps?
Do you agree that Rome states through your works you can be pardoned from sin? If you can’t see that I’m sorry there’s nothing further to discuss.
 
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.

Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’

And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
Click to expand...
Works
 
The comment was on your misrepresenting of indulgences
indulgences (paying for gifs of God).
Click to expand...
NOT what indulgences are

I don’t have time to go back through the thread for your many misrepresentations.
 
Last edited:
hope said:
Works
Click to expand...
These are works or acts we are supposed to do as Christians. These works do not pardon us from sin.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
And where in all those examples is the word “pay”, which was what my post was referencing? You clearly stated that indulgence = pay, which is completely incorrect. If you have an issue with what indulgences actually are, then that is a different argument.
 
A work is an act of payment. it’s a physical payment instead of a payment of currency.

Is grace a gift offered from God? Yes.

How many works does it take to earn the gift of God? It’s not possible.
 
Because you do not understand what indulgences are hint: they are not for the forgiveness of sins, you make statements that are false. I am glad that you phrased what happened this way

Modern day Catholicism might not offer indulgences for money but it certainly happened in their history.

and not the inaccurate way that indulgences were sold. Donations were considered a charitable donation and that charitable act is what earned the indulgence which was misconstrued as selling. But thankfully you didn’t claim that myth
 
Indulgences can be used for the living or for the dead so says Catholicism.

Do you say walking up the holy steps in Rome does not merit a pardon of 7 years in Purgatory?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top