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The_Geographer
Guest
I’ve had enough live soap operas just living in my family life that I hate soaps. They so dumb. But what do you mean?
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Alex2008
Guest
I have to point out that in the Diocese that I am part of, most of the abusers were priests ordained BEFORE Vatican II. I think it is simplistic to put full blame on that council. This is both a sickness and evil that exists among all members of society, not just clergy. The Church handled the problem in medievel style (hide it so no-one is scandalized) and is now rightly being raked over the coals for it!Very fine points. The secular wind bent the reeds during the 60’s and 70’s and effected who could enter seminaries, who could become ordained and what a proper view of human sexuality should be. How men with such grave disorders could enter and then be ordained and every detail that contributed to that needs to be changed or diciplined and standardized at a higher elevation.
I pray that poor Priest takes this most valuable opportunity to forgive because the power added to prayer for forgiveness of such will heal the bonds damaged by his fallen colleagues.
I can’t agree with one part though.I don’t think we should remind people about all the good priests if they want to discuss the ones who failed us. I think we need to discuss the faults with them without changing the subject. If they change the subject to something biased then we should gently Let them know what they said isn’t fair and why.
Sometimes allowing this will cause them to bring up the good priests
What I truly believe is that the changes in sexual thought/morality which also came in the 1960’s created the philosophy of “if it feels good do it and who cares who it hurts or the consequences of it.” The feel good part society has bought into and is now the imparted philosophy of life to everyone (you’re not “modern” if you don’t think this way). There is no longer such a thing as personal responsibility and far too many people are controlled now by their gonads instead of their minds!
Unfortunately, this SIN has infected even the clergy (of all denominations)!
F
flyfisher
Guest
Hang in there ,and don’t abandon the faith. the Catholic Church has gone through many many trials and tribulations. It is and always will be the one true church in spite of all who try to scandalize it.
P
PJM
Guest
***In the Lords prayer we pray “forgive us our trasspasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRASSPASS AGAINST US.”
The precise meaning of this is God please please forgive me the exact way and manner I forgive EVERYBODY ELSE." So IF we don’t forgive; God does not forgive us.
What has happened is by sinful men, and covered up by men who are not simply equally sinful; but even more so because there goal was to protect there jobs, not there flocks; not enen there priest. These actions stem from 50 years of “it’s OK to disobey the Pope and the Magistrium”; which consist of a minority of the worlds Bishops. A very ordinary Mass, where the priest is ever mindful of being on stage, Communion in the hand, lay-folk-assistant priest.
Yes these are most difficult and stressing times for Christ Church. What do we do?
We admit that sinful men did horible things that were covered up by even more sinful men. Then we pray daily for God’s Mercy on them and His Church.
God cannot cause evil; BUT God permits it to allow sinners to “return to Me.” Only through OUR prayers, might that happen! LET US PRAY!
Never forget God’s promise in John 14 and John 17 refer to His Church NEVER Failing; NOT the human beings in Her.***
M
MyzTek
Guest
I want to preference this by saying this scandal is not chasing me out of my Church. Based on what I knew about him, I liked Card. Ratzinger as the choice for JPII’s successor. I respect his scholarship and still want to think he is a good man.
However, we have a problem to deal with, and it must be confronted head on.
In 2001, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a letter to the Bishops in which it was stated that those in the know about cases of child abuse being investigated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith were bound by the Pontifical Secret.
It was not until 2002 that the Vatican required that credible allegations of sexual abuse of children be reported to legal authorities.
Therefore, when the letter was written, Cardinal Ratzinger was telling the Bishops (and through them the priests) that they could be disciplined and perhaps even excommunicated for telling the civil authorities about a child molesting priest the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was investigating. This is not acceptable.
While there is gossip flying around, everything being said in the media is not gossip or rumor. The above is not gossip, it is fact. I read the letter, its meaning is clear and easily understood. As Catholics we should be highly critical of this, IMHO.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The Hierarchy, all the way to the top, need to repent and make public expiation. The laity needs to confront this head-on and not defend sinful policies or the actions that created them.
peace,
MyzTek
However, we have a problem to deal with, and it must be confronted head on.
In 2001, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a letter to the Bishops in which it was stated that those in the know about cases of child abuse being investigated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith were bound by the Pontifical Secret.
It was not until 2002 that the Vatican required that credible allegations of sexual abuse of children be reported to legal authorities.
Therefore, when the letter was written, Cardinal Ratzinger was telling the Bishops (and through them the priests) that they could be disciplined and perhaps even excommunicated for telling the civil authorities about a child molesting priest the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was investigating. This is not acceptable.
While there is gossip flying around, everything being said in the media is not gossip or rumor. The above is not gossip, it is fact. I read the letter, its meaning is clear and easily understood. As Catholics we should be highly critical of this, IMHO.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Code of Canon Law (1983)
The Catechism of St. Pope Pius X (circa 1880)
The Imitation of Christ by Thomas À Kempis (c. 1418)
The Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas (1265-1274)
The Hierarchy needs to admit it scandalized the Bishops by telling them not to immediately report the crimes to the civil authorities to which we are subject. This in turn scandalized priests held to the same rule, and victims for whom justice was delayed or denied. This in turn has lead to scandalizing the public, who are now seeing the results of the cover-ups. It all could have been avoided by doing the non-scandalous thing, obeying the law and turning cases of abuse over to civil authorities promptly.
The Hierarchy, all the way to the top, need to repent and make public expiation. The laity needs to confront this head-on and not defend sinful policies or the actions that created them.
peace,
MyzTek
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The_Geographer
Guest
I agree. Unfortunately we rules meant to help in dire need such as huge crowds at mass where the priest needs help to distribute communion has been brought to a “norm” even when it is unnecessary to do so. I am an EMHC and feel the same way. Though we belong to a great parish I still see things that just shouldn’t occur by lay servants. I see changes in liturgical prayers or rearrangement of words where it just isn’t proper. It appears that a generation of clergy have allowed too many things to go unchecked for the sake of people’s feelings like they want the Protestant style worship services. This is their attempt to water down the faith. NOT GOOD. But the sexual abuse is in all of the faiths. It transcends faiths, unfortunately. And even though it may be much smaller than in other faiths it should never occur and covering it up is equal to college campuses covering up rapes on campuses to prevent bad publicity.
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PAboy57
Guest
Hold our heads up high
Our faith and church are strong
We have some problems and will deal with them
Our Pope is a great and good man
Jesus will make the church stronger by all of this
Let our good priests and deacons know how much we care about them
Pray, pray and then pray some more
Go to church even more
Volunteer at your parish and be active
Help in the healing process
If we do these and others everything will work out for the better. Amen to all the strong supporters of our faith. Loved reading all the wonderful posts.
Our faith and church are strong
We have some problems and will deal with them
Our Pope is a great and good man
Jesus will make the church stronger by all of this
Let our good priests and deacons know how much we care about them
Pray, pray and then pray some more
Go to church even more
Volunteer at your parish and be active
Help in the healing process
If we do these and others everything will work out for the better. Amen to all the strong supporters of our faith. Loved reading all the wonderful posts.
J
jojow
Guest
as an irish catholic i find myself defending the church on a daily basis particularly in work and it isnt easy but i agree with what some people here have to say. being a good catholic is the best way to proceed, answer the questions by example, pray for the church the victims and the misguided people who put the reputation of the church before the safety of children. although child abuse is present in every walk of life since the dawn of time its no excuse, the church and its people should be above all that, for want of a better phrase.
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The_Geographer
Guest
Okay, I’ll say mass the next time I go. I’ll even do some baptisms while we’re waiting…
T
The_Geographer
Guest
It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
I’ve got some concrete blocks and some nylon rope.
I’ve got some concrete blocks and some nylon rope.
K
kage_ar
Guest
Someone who is the victim of a crime has not sinned.
Maybe someday you will sin, and you will long for the mercy of God and his Church. Maybe someday, I pray not, but maybe someone will sin against you and you will be comforted that your name is not drug through the media and your business is kept private.
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The_Geographer
Guest
Read posts #57 and #58Someone who is the victim of a crime has not sinned.
**Maybe **someday you will sin, and you will long for the mercy of God and his Church. **Maybe
You apparently don’t know my story. It apparently cost me my vocation that I felt very strong about. If my wife dies before me then I will return to seminary formation if accepted again. But this time it will be in a different diocese as a grown man.
Your knuckleheads, cold and calloused response is why I kept this secret to myself for so many reasons and ran like hell to get away. The laity are more vicious than even the clergy.
J
Josconil
Guest
The present crisis that is rocking the Church should be looked upon seriously. It is a time for retrospection for the whole church - from top to bottom. This is just a demonstration of the extent to which the culture of death has made inroads into the Church.
Code:
Disciplinary action against the priests, including that of de-frocking is needed, but defenitely it will not solve the problem because the present rot is much more deep. Only good families can produce good priests. So it should not surprise us that some of the priests are perverted, because the very institution and value of marriage is under attack.
What we should meditate on now is that why the church as an institution failed to bring back these persons into the ways of the Lord. Why has the sacraments and the spiritual treasury of the Church failed to heal them and bring them back to normalcy?
To answer these questions in depth, we need to look at the way priests are trained nowadays and the type of luxurious life they (esp. the ones involved in institutions) lead. I'm very sorry to say so, but it is a bitter truth that the seminaries nowadays are so much secularised and un spiritual that a simple layman can easily lose faith if he undergoes seminary training for three years.
So these scancals, a sign of deep inner rot should not surprise us. And those priest and nuns who still treads the ways of the Lord should be considered as heroes of faith ie; saints!.
C
Cinette
Guest
I returned to the Catholic Church after an absence of 27 years. I got to know my Faith as never before - the history, the beauty, the truth… I have never been so happy in my life.
I have known wonderful, devoted priests and nuns. The laity is more informed as never before or should I say there are more people in the Church who are better informed than ever before. The laity is more active.
We have a wonderful body of converts who have brought such richness with them. Their participation is simply breathtaking.
The Church belongs to the whole of humanity. I could never dream of leaving for a single moment. Where would I go - they have the message of eternal life!
We all need to pray for our Church and our priests.
God love you all
Cinette
I have known wonderful, devoted priests and nuns. The laity is more informed as never before or should I say there are more people in the Church who are better informed than ever before. The laity is more active.
We have a wonderful body of converts who have brought such richness with them. Their participation is simply breathtaking.
The Church belongs to the whole of humanity. I could never dream of leaving for a single moment. Where would I go - they have the message of eternal life!
We all need to pray for our Church and our priests.
God love you all
Cinette
F
frr
Guest
It is like we are discovering sin again!
In this society even the catholics have a protestant and puritan mentality. If there is sin we try to hide it or to cry scandal!
Sin is there. Everybody sins and everybody is in need of repentance. A priest as anybody else. A priest can be sick as anybody else and has to be sent to the proper hospital.
Was the sex revolution of the 60’ and 70’ a joke? No, and we can see it clearly.
But is there anything greater than sin?
Is Christ scandalized by sin?
Did He stop to die for sinners?
Is the Church driven by men or by the Holy Spirit?
Is it possible to open the eyes and see the persecution against the church and the Pope?
Did you read the letter the Pope sent to the people of Ireland?
Are you not called to be a saint so that even priest can be inspired and change their lives?
You may look at the following as well
ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/keeping-record-straight-benedict-and-crisis
Thanks
Roberto
In this society even the catholics have a protestant and puritan mentality. If there is sin we try to hide it or to cry scandal!
Sin is there. Everybody sins and everybody is in need of repentance. A priest as anybody else. A priest can be sick as anybody else and has to be sent to the proper hospital.
Was the sex revolution of the 60’ and 70’ a joke? No, and we can see it clearly.
But is there anything greater than sin?
Is Christ scandalized by sin?
Did He stop to die for sinners?
Is the Church driven by men or by the Holy Spirit?
Is it possible to open the eyes and see the persecution against the church and the Pope?
Did you read the letter the Pope sent to the people of Ireland?
Are you not called to be a saint so that even priest can be inspired and change their lives?
You may look at the following as well
ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/keeping-record-straight-benedict-and-crisis
Thanks
Roberto
T
The_Geographer
Guest
Read posts #57 and #58Someone who is the victim of a crime has not sinned.
**Maybe **
You apparently you don’t know my story. It apparently cost me a vocation to the priesthood that I felt very strong about. If my wife dies before me then I will return to seminary formation if accepted again. But this time it will be in a different diocese as a grown man.
Your response is reflective of why I kept this secret to myself for so many years and ran like **crazy **to get away.
D
Deborah_Kloos
Guest
The clerical abuse has personally effected me, as when I was 17 y old a 63 y old priest abused me. This caused a lot of guilt, anger, depression, and mistrust in me which separated me from my Catholic faith for 20 y. I have returned to my faith but it took a long time to heal and everytime new allegations come up in the media, it reopens old wounds for me.
I don’t want to see anymore people hurt. I decided, when Pope Benedict XVI declared this year to be the Year of the Priest, to really uplift our clergy in prayer, especially the fallen clergy members. I wanted to bring a message of love, hope, mercy and forgiveness to clergy members in the midst of this scandal. I made special rosaries with semiprecious stones and an indulgence cross on them for clergy and bishops and I sent them to these clergy members in honour of the Year of the Priest and asked them to pray for God to place a mantle of love and protection over the clergy members, bring healing to the victims of clergy sexual abuse and lead them back to their faith, pray for mercy and forgiveness for the perpetrators, and help the faithful Catholics keep strong in their faith. I went to the monastery and offered up masses for all the clergy members. When the scandal regarding Ex Bishop Lahey came up in the media, I found out his address from Most Reverend Bishop Thomas Collins from Toronto and send this bishop a handmade rosary, offered up a mass for him and let him know that I would keep him in my prayers. Ex Bishop Lahey wrote me a beautiful letter saying how he really appreciated the prayers, especially now at the lowest point of his life. I did the same for Father John Duarte who is in prison for abusing Haitian boys and another 83 y old priest accused of sexual abuse which occurred 40 y ago but states he is innocent of the charges. I visited this accused 83 y old priest and personally gave him the perpetual mass card and he denied the charges. He was a frail elderly man with a gentle, humble character and I believe him.
I don’t condone what the priests have done, but I just want them to feel the mercy, love, and forgiveness of Jesus in their fallen state. During the ministry of Jesus, His message was to forgive and pray for those who hurt us. He gave us the parable of the Prodical son. He said that He would leave the 99 lambs to find the lost lamb and hold this lost one close to His heart. He said to forgive 70X7. On Good Friday, Jesus was humiliated, tortured, and put to death for the sins of us all…no matter how bad the sins were. As Jesus was taken by the men in the garden of Gethsemane, he healed the cut off ear of the man coming to take Him. As Jesus hung on the cross He said, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. He forgave the repentant thief hanging beside Him on the cross and promised him to be in Paradise. It is important as Catholic Christians to continue to live this message of Christ.
On Good Friday, the day Jesus gave up His life to cover the sins of the world, I plea for you to pray the rosary while you are in a state of fasting and dedicate it to our clergy…for the Lord to place a mantle of protection and love over them, especially Pope Benedict XVI. Please also pray for the victims of clerical abuse and their families, and also the perpetrators for healing. Please pray for the faithful Catholics that their faith not be shaken by the abuse scandals. St. Padre Pio stated that the rosary was a weapon against evil. Father Benedict Groeschal states that if you pray for someone in a state of fasting then it is the most powerful way of bringing an intention to the Lord. Where two or more are gathered in His name the Lord is present. Prayer is our hope and something we, as Catholic Christians can do to combat the evils and damaging effects of clerical abuse.
PLEASE DEDICATE YOUR GOOD FRIDAY FASTING AND PRAY THE ROSARY FOR THIS CAUSE. May the Lord bless you always.
Deborah Kloos
I don’t want to see anymore people hurt. I decided, when Pope Benedict XVI declared this year to be the Year of the Priest, to really uplift our clergy in prayer, especially the fallen clergy members. I wanted to bring a message of love, hope, mercy and forgiveness to clergy members in the midst of this scandal. I made special rosaries with semiprecious stones and an indulgence cross on them for clergy and bishops and I sent them to these clergy members in honour of the Year of the Priest and asked them to pray for God to place a mantle of love and protection over the clergy members, bring healing to the victims of clergy sexual abuse and lead them back to their faith, pray for mercy and forgiveness for the perpetrators, and help the faithful Catholics keep strong in their faith. I went to the monastery and offered up masses for all the clergy members. When the scandal regarding Ex Bishop Lahey came up in the media, I found out his address from Most Reverend Bishop Thomas Collins from Toronto and send this bishop a handmade rosary, offered up a mass for him and let him know that I would keep him in my prayers. Ex Bishop Lahey wrote me a beautiful letter saying how he really appreciated the prayers, especially now at the lowest point of his life. I did the same for Father John Duarte who is in prison for abusing Haitian boys and another 83 y old priest accused of sexual abuse which occurred 40 y ago but states he is innocent of the charges. I visited this accused 83 y old priest and personally gave him the perpetual mass card and he denied the charges. He was a frail elderly man with a gentle, humble character and I believe him.
I don’t condone what the priests have done, but I just want them to feel the mercy, love, and forgiveness of Jesus in their fallen state. During the ministry of Jesus, His message was to forgive and pray for those who hurt us. He gave us the parable of the Prodical son. He said that He would leave the 99 lambs to find the lost lamb and hold this lost one close to His heart. He said to forgive 70X7. On Good Friday, Jesus was humiliated, tortured, and put to death for the sins of us all…no matter how bad the sins were. As Jesus was taken by the men in the garden of Gethsemane, he healed the cut off ear of the man coming to take Him. As Jesus hung on the cross He said, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. He forgave the repentant thief hanging beside Him on the cross and promised him to be in Paradise. It is important as Catholic Christians to continue to live this message of Christ.
On Good Friday, the day Jesus gave up His life to cover the sins of the world, I plea for you to pray the rosary while you are in a state of fasting and dedicate it to our clergy…for the Lord to place a mantle of protection and love over them, especially Pope Benedict XVI. Please also pray for the victims of clerical abuse and their families, and also the perpetrators for healing. Please pray for the faithful Catholics that their faith not be shaken by the abuse scandals. St. Padre Pio stated that the rosary was a weapon against evil. Father Benedict Groeschal states that if you pray for someone in a state of fasting then it is the most powerful way of bringing an intention to the Lord. Where two or more are gathered in His name the Lord is present. Prayer is our hope and something we, as Catholic Christians can do to combat the evils and damaging effects of clerical abuse.
PLEASE DEDICATE YOUR GOOD FRIDAY FASTING AND PRAY THE ROSARY FOR THIS CAUSE. May the Lord bless you always.
Deborah Kloos
T
The_Geographer
Guest
I returned to the Catholic Church after an absence of 27 years. I got to know my Faith as never before - the history, the beauty, the truth… I have never been so happy in my life.
I have known wonderful, devoted priests and nuns. The laity is more informed as never before or should I say there are more people in the Church who are better informed than ever before. The laity is more active.
We have a wonderful body of converts who have brought such richness with them. Their participation is simply breathtaking.
The Church belongs to the whole of humanity. I could never dream of leaving for a single moment. Where would I go - they have the message of eternal life!
We all need to pray for our Church and our priests.
God love you all
Cinette
M
MercyMia
Guest
Geographer - Thank you for sharing your (name removed by moderator)ut. I hope you become involved in some way in your diocese since you have such an important perspective on the matter. It is hard to hear, but we need to hear it in order to really fix the problem. We need to turn this around. I will be darned if God’s Church gets tarnished under my watch.
BTW, based on this and another post of yours, were you in the church of Christ when you weren’t Catholic? My husband was raised church of Christ - unfortunately abuse made itself present there also. His grandfather left the Catholic Church and became a church of Christ elder in Italy. He was a pedophile and the church and family covered up for him and allowed him access to God knows how many children. There was incest, sadly.
He died before my husband was born, thank God. My husband left the coc before he even knew about his grandfather though…he has a very negative opinion of the group.
BTW, based on this and another post of yours, were you in the church of Christ when you weren’t Catholic? My husband was raised church of Christ - unfortunately abuse made itself present there also. His grandfather left the Catholic Church and became a church of Christ elder in Italy. He was a pedophile and the church and family covered up for him and allowed him access to God knows how many children. There was incest, sadly.
He died before my husband was born, thank God. My husband left the coc before he even knew about his grandfather though…he has a very negative opinion of the group.
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