How do we respond to the "sex abuse scandal"?

[Tybourne]

The Pope and Pope John Paul II covered it up - did they not?

Okay. Pope John Paul II was accustomed to abuse being fabricated to impugn priests behind the Iron Curtain. This, and his profound respect for human freedom, may have led him astray on the issue of abuse. He would always say to people: ‘You must do what seems right to you’. Given his experience and reflections on the acting person, he had good reasons for not being over-controlling, contrary to media reports.

Pope Benedict has done more than almost anyone to toughen up the Church’s response to unchaste clergy. On one occasion, he urged JPII to do more, but other advisers in the Curia advised JP to let somnolent wolves remain undisturbed, from what we hear. As the Holy Father confided to Cardinal Schoenborn, on this occasion, “the other side won”. Now Benedict is faced with the choice: to fight, to run or to take a stand with the victims, suffering gravely in the process. We must pray as he requested us to when he was elected- that he may not run for fear of the wolves. Quo vadis, Peter?

 

[Tybourne]

This whole thing reminds me of Matthew 23.

It’s quite a long chapter. Can you be more specific please?

 

[RonTheNewJew]

While I can understand how frustrating this whole abuse scandal must be to everyday Catholics (you can tell that I’m not Catholic), I cannot understand why, just because Jesus never married, and Paul didn’t but said “it is better to marry than it is to burn.” (I presume he meant, sexually), that the RCC leadership doesn’t simply go back to the way it was when the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods existed: marry.

There is nothing wrong in men and women marrying and having children (which means having sexual relations). It is a love expression, as well as it is physically satisfying. And, why claim to follow Christ’s example, given that He performed a marriage ceremony at Cana, then say that a healthy young man cannot marry, when the apostle Paul stated plainly that all Christ’s leaders have that option. The RCC should allow their ministers (priests) to marry or remain abstinent from interpersonal sexual relationship (of any kind).

That would rid the RCC of the very real abuse being committed by male priests against those most vulnerable, then feeling the need to be defended by politican/TV journalists, case in point, Donahue, which easily attracts derision from both within the RCC as well as from others outside it. Offending clergy should be defrocked, and then turned over to the police authorities WHEN young people show proof of claims of having been sexually abused. Also, the RCC would then not have to come up with such disgusing, flimsy excuses about what others do, when they only seem to do that when it’s own former teenagers let it be known what horrific, ugly things that priests did to them.

Did not Jesus say that “if anyone abuses one of these children, better would it be for a millstone to be tied about that man’s neck and have him (the abuser) thrown into the depths of the sea.?” He didn’t exclude priests, rabbi’s, ministers, imams. etc.

In places where priests live, it would seem that, since indulgences are apparently allowed, that such mechanisms might thereby allow younger priests to do as all men, inluding all those who commit a sin by lying about it, to privately release their own physical need, in strict privacy if they choose not to marry, but cannot control the urge in any other acceptable way. To refuse them this is to steal from them. That is another sin. The preferred way for all normal men is to get married and. as the 1960s folk roch song said,
“love the one you’re with.”

If Church traditions, which the RCC has always claimed to have the right to “loose,” can be “loosed,” then the one on the RCC’s priests not being able to marry needs, definitely, to be “loosed.” There is nothing “conservative” or “religious” or “denying of onesself” about a bunch of young, healthy men so utterly pent up inside that they end up conjuring up reasons for which they abuse those who, due to their young ages, cannot speak for themselves, telling these older boys that "they must not be good, or they would not be forcing the priest to punish the boys by sexually assaulting them.

Though the vast majority, I feel certain, of priests have nothing to do with such satanic behavior, much as was practiced by the babylonians in Old Testament times, the very fact that others, not involved directly, knew about it and would not, or could not let authorities know about it which would have stopped it, causes the entire Catholic community to suffer what many consider deserved reproach. It’s the doctrine of celebacy, itself, and the RCC’s claim of both “infallibility” on one hand, and the right it claims to change old Judaic traditions which God, Himself established, such as marriage.

We are all sinners, and no one on this planet, no matter how hard he or she might try the strong arm of humanity to stop “doing it,” comes anywhere near close to what God wants us to do. That is one reason why He established marriage for all adults.

 

[po18guy]

This is yet another example of how the evil one attacks the One True Church - from without and from within. He need not attack false churches or false faiths, as he is their source, and a house divided against itself will not stand (Matthew 12:25, Mark 3:25, Luke 11:17). Satan abhors the truth, and so he uses his eternity in a vain attempt to destroy the Body of Christ. As it was with his failed temptation of Christ (Matthew 4:1-11), so too, will he fail in his vile attempt to destroy the pillar and foundation of truth (2 Timothy 3:15). This is a time to stand up for truth and to be aware not only of the constant presence of the evil one, but to know his methods and tactics. He is an opportunist (Mark 4:15, Luke 4:13, Luke 22:3, John 13:27) He does not break the door down with brute force, but with subtlety he enters the Church as a wisp of smoke through a crack in the door. Remember that the serpent was the most subtle of the creatures in the garden (Genesis 3:1). We must be ever vigilant, at all levels within the Church, against the corrosion of evil. Being a Church of sinners, we have failed and so must pay the price - but the Church herself will remain standing (Matthew 16:18).

In terms which this world can understand, 1 out of 12 (8.33%) of Jesus’ hand-picked Apostles was an evil betrayer of the truth. Is it any wonder that a percentage of those chosen by the Apostles’ successors would also be His betrayers? Several sources place the number of Catholic Priests worldwide at just over 408,000. If 1/12 of them were betrayers, we would have almost 34,000 Priests under investigation! Even one case of priestly abuse is too many, so should we then begin an investigation of news reporters?

Let us be reaffirmed in our faith, as it once again comes under attack. This is proof to us of her truth.

 

[bbentrup]

ncregister.com/blog/cardinal/

That is Jimmy Akin’s analysis. Mr. Akin is a Catholic Answers apologist and composes an excellent, objective analysis. Peace to all!

 

[po18guy]

While I can understand how frustrating this whole abuse scandal must be to everyday Catholics (you can tell that I’m not Catholic), I cannot understand why, just because Jesus never married, and Paul didn’t but said “it is better to marry than it is to burn.” (I presume he meant, sexually), that the RCC leadership doesn’t simply go back to the way it was when the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods existed: marry.

Over 80% of the abuse is homosexual. These men would not marry. If they did, it would only create another victim in the wife. Again, there is an equal or greater percentage of non-Catholic clergy involved in sexual scandal. In New York, there is also a sexual abuse scandal in Judaism. Ever hear about those? Only the Catholic Church is found newsworthy in this regard.

As to the discipline of celibacy, here is the Word of the Lord through Isaiah:

Isaiah 56:4-5

For this is what the LORD says:
"To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant-

to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will not be cut off.

Our Lord Jesus taught:

**Matthew 19:11-13 **

“Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Celibacy is a discipline of the Church. What we are seeing is disobedience to God.

 

[AAUK]

I left this Forum earlier with great sadness, returned to my emails and read today’s Saint - Peter Regalado, a Spanish Franciscan. At the end was this:

Comment
Peter was an effective leader of the friars because he did not become ensnared in anger over the sins of others. Peter helped sinning friars rearrange the priorities in their lives and dedicate themselves to living the gospel of Jesus Christ as they had vowed. This patient correction is an act of charity available to all Franciscans, not just to superiors.

Quote:
“And let all the brothers, both the ministers and servants as well as the others, take care not to be disturbed or angered at the sin or the evil of another, because the devil wishes to destroy many through the fault of one; but they should spiritually help [the brother] who has sinned as best they can, because it is not the healthy who are in need of the physician, but those who are sick (cf. Mt 9:12; Mk 2:17)” (Rule of 1221, Chapter 5).

At the beginning of the Homosexual controversy in the Church of England, the Archbishop of Canterbury commented: “NOW (my emphasis) that artificial contraception has enabled sexual pleasure as an end in itself, have we the right to deny it to homosexuals?” He could have added paedophiles!

What a hypocritical society we live in that promotes and celebrates sexual sin including paedophilia by providing children with contraceptives, morning after pills and abortions without parental knowledge at the same time as casting stones at sinning priests. Satan won’t have the last laugh because Jesus has the victory and the Church will remain steadfast through the faithfulness of the remnant.fighting the spiritual battle.

 

[Tybourne]

I cannot understand why, just because Jesus never married, and Paul didn’t but said “it is better to marry than it is to burn.” (I presume he meant, sexually), that the RCC leadership doesn’t simply go back to the way it was when the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods existed: marry…
no one on this planet, no matter how hard he or she might try the strong arm of humanity to stop “doing it,” comes anywhere near close to what God wants us to do. That is one reason why He established marriage for all adults.

Ron, good to have you on board, as an elder brother, if I may put it that way. You are correct, celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine that exists in the Latin Rite- it could be changed. However, this option was discussed at a recent Synod of Bishops. The Eastern Catholic Bishops, from a jurisdiction where married clergy are the norm, advised against changing the discipline in the West. Why was that? Because of all the attendant difficulties with married clergy (e.g. priests being unable or unwilling to move, for family reasons; separated and divorced priests). I’m curious to know- do issues like this occur with rabbis?

Celibacy is an exception, a gift of supernatural grace. It’s providential, in my opinion, that it has been given to the Latin Church as a norm. Removing the norm would do little, if anything, to reduce abuse, as others have shown.

 

[po18guy]

I left this Forum earlier with great sadness, returned to my emails and read today’s Saint - Peter Regalado, a Spanish Franciscan. At the end was this:

Comment
Peter was an effective leader of the friars because he did not become ensnared in anger over the sins of others. Peter helped sinning friars rearrange the priorities in their lives and dedicate themselves to living the gospel of Jesus Christ as they had vowed. This patient correction is an act of charity available to all Franciscans, not just to superiors.

Quote:
“And let all the brothers, both the ministers and servants as well as the others, take care not to be disturbed or angered at the sin or the evil of another, because the devil wishes to destroy many through the fault of one; but they should spiritually help [the brother] who has sinned as best they can, because it is not the healthy who are in need of the physician, but those who are sick (cf. Mt 9:12; Mk 2:17)” (Rule of 1221, Chapter 5).

At the beginning of the Homosexual controversy in the Church of England, the Archbishop of Canterbury commented: “NOW (my emphasis) that artificial contraception has enabled sexual pleasure as an end in itself, have we the right to deny it to homosexuals?” He could have added paedophiles!

What a hypocritical society we live in that promotes and celebrates sexual sin including paedophilia by providing children with contraceptives, morning after pills and abortions without parental knowledge at the same time as casting stones at sinning priests. Satan won’t have the last laugh because Jesus has the victory and the Church will remain steadfast through the faithfulness of the remnant.fighting the spiritual battle.

Amen! And, welcome to the forums. I, for one, will proceed through this Holy Week, not letting non-believers temper my love of a God who bears scars for us. These attacks only confirm for me that my faith is well placed in the truth of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[choy]

What a hypocritical society we live in that promotes and celebrates sexual sin including paedophilia by providing children with contraceptives, morning after pills and abortions without parental knowledge at the same time as casting stones at sinning priests. Satan won’t have the last laugh because Jesus has the victory and the Church will remain steadfast through the faithfulness of the remnant.fighting the spiritual battle.

quoted for truth!

my parish priest says the same thing. our society today glorifies sex, and yet when a priest stumbles on this big boulder we have placed in front of him, we all start casting stones of condemnation. we have all, since birth, been bombarded with the message that sex is okay with no limitations. we put glamour in the life of rockstars who get to have sex with many different women in their tourbus, with professional athletes who have women lining up for them after the games (Wilt Chamberlain being the most famous of these sexual boasters proclaiming he has slept with more than 40,000 different women) and yet we are apalled that priests eventually fall down this rabbit hole society has created.

i’m not saying that we should celebrate them like rock stars and professional athletes, but when priests fall we should not trample on them but help pick them up.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

As to the discipline of celibacy, here is the Word of the Lord through Isaiah:

Isaiah 56:4-5

For this is what the LORD says:
"To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant-

to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will not be cut off.

Our Lord Jesus taught:

**Matthew 19:11-13 **

“Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Celibacy is a discipline of the Church. What we are seeing is disobedience to God.

“Not everyone can accept this word” This does not mean that those who cannot accept this word, are, disallowed into the Kingdom. Were the priests of the Old Testament not allowed to marry? Yes, they were, and did so. What about the rabbi’s, who were the teachers and preachers, not priests? They all married. Jesus never said anything to thwart what He gave to Paul when the apostle wrote about church leaders and teachers who wanted to marry. Jesus was saying that the eunochs in fact had an easier time of it than did men who were not without male glands, causing them to have a sexual need, which Christ understood at Cana. Jesus did not say that only eunochs and those who had forsaken marriage were the only humans who would be saved. He was saying that anyone who "keeps my Sabbaths (which by the way means, the weekly Shabbat, as well as all the other sabbaths of the Everlasting (New) Covenant), would be saved in His Kingdom.

He was saying, I believe, that He has a special place of honor for those who have been able to forsake earthly marriage, and the sexual pleasure that it brings with it’s many responsibilities. He is a God of infinite wisdom and true justice. What Jesus also said was that those who sexually “abuse” (or abuse children in any way) will not enter Heaven, no matter that they gave up marriage, etc. I believe that Paul also taught, by implication, this same basic rule. It all can be found in God’s Torah, and further explained by Jesus. What I believe is that Jesus and Paul were simply backing up the Law of Moses, which God gave to Moses at Mt. Sinai.

Jews who do not understand the centrality of Yeshua in their own Torah (the Law God gave to Moses), may in fact be conducting themselves in similar fashion as the Catholic Priests who have sexual debauchery of the innocent children they had control over. If so, then the local rabbinical organizations should let authorities know of it at once. Judaism, with only rabbi’s, and not Jesus, the True Jew, as central to their religion, are no different than any other “faith” that does not allow individual members to read and study the Scriptures and understand God’s Plan of Salvation.

Just last evening, millions of Torah-observant Jews observed the Seder celebration. They need to be reminded that, when Yeshua came to earth, it was to give Messianic meaning to the annual gatherings, called by God, “My feasts.” They claim the remembrances of God’s past deliverances of them from bondage. But, they, who have been so maligned by other “faiths and religions,” have decided that Christ, Himself, was behind how badly they were persecuted and murdered in early “Christian” times. We had our family Seder with Yeshua’s Holy Spirit present because we prayed that He would enter our hearts and minds and be with us.

As Jesus said to those who asked him how they could become of the seed of Abraham:
“If ye would become Abraham’s seed, do as Abraham did.” God said of Abraham, “He did My will. He followed My commandments, My statutes and My judgements.” Obviously then, Abraham did as God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit taught him to do. It was later formalized into the Ten Words (the Ten Headlines, if you will), and spoke to Moses His statutes and judgements and other laws. These laws, God said were a perpetual covenant to be kept through all your generations, forever."

The New Covenant was a repeat of the one given by God to Moses the first time at the mountain. They broke it. Moses pleaded for them. God relented and gave the “New Covenant,” contained in Exodus 34. Ezekiel said that God’s statutes and judgements would be written “on their hearts,” after He removed their "hearts of stone, and put into them “hearts of flesh.” The hearts of flesh would be put their by the Holy Spirit of God, given at Shavuot, (Pentecost). If the Church were to go back to the original calendar that God established, Jews by the many millions would then accept their Messiah, understanding why so many did not accept it. Persecution, both before Christ and after His ascension, was why they felt they could not accept Christ.

Joining their liturgical year, while teaching them the Christ of their own religion, is the key.

I;m sure you will disagree with me. But, you might give it a few minutes of thought. The God of the Scriptures will never allow His once-given religion to be bannished from the earth.

 

[The_Geographer]

It’s quite a long chapter. Can you be more specific please?

It’s not that long.

Jesus says it throughout the gospels… Do as the teachers of the law say, not as they do. They were hypocrites, remember?

 

[Tybourne]

Do as the teachers of the law say, not as they do. They were hypocrites, remember?

Some bishops and theologians have been shown up as hypocrites- they will receive their judgment. The Pope has not, contrary to media claims.

 

[po18guy]

“Not everyone can accept this word” This does not mean that those who cannot accept this word, are, disallowed into the Kingdom…He was saying that anyone who "keeps my Sabbaths (which by the way means, the weekly Shabbat, as well as all the other sabbaths of the Everlasting (New) Covenant), would be saved in His Kingdom.

Agreed. It’s just that Catholic Priests make vows before Holy God. They accept the price and state that they are willing to pay it.

He was saying, I believe, that He has a special place of honor for those who have been able to forsake earthly marriage, and the sexual pleasure that it brings with it’s many responsibilities. He is a God of infinite wisdom and true justice.

Amen.

Jews who do not understand the centrality of Yeshua in their own Torah (the Law God gave to Moses), may in fact be conducting themselves in similar fashion as the Catholic Priests who have sexual debauchery of the innocent children they had control over. If so, then the local rabbinical organizations should let authorities know of it at once. Judaism, with only rabbi’s, and not Jesus, the True Jew, as central to their religion, are no different than any other “faith” that does not allow individual members to read and study the Scriptures and understand God’s Plan of Salvation.

I didn’t follow this paragraph. Notice that the Judaic abusers in New York were reported to the police and action taken. It just wasn’t considered newsworthy. The Catholic Church is singled out almost exclusively in that regard.

Just last evening, millions of Torah-observant Jews observed the Seder celebration. They need to be reminded that, when Yeshua came to earth, it was to give Messianic meaning to the annual gatherings, called by God, “My feasts.” They claim the remembrances of God’s past deliverances of them from bondage. But, they, who have been so maligned by other “faiths and religions,” have decided that Christ, Himself, was behind how badly they were persecuted and murdered in early “Christian” times. We had our family Seder with Yeshua’s Holy Spirit present because we prayed that He would enter our hearts and minds and be with us.

One wonders why the Jews suffered so terribly long before the Messianic times. Disobedience to God. Always.

Catholic roots are 100% Jewish. There are books and videos in this regard. Here is a sample video by Brother Bob Fishman:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1815168634641791236#

Peace be with you.

 

[Tybourne]

If the Church were to go back to the original calendar that God established, Jews by the many millions would then accept their Messiah, understanding why so many did not accept it…

Joining their liturgical year, while teaching them the Christ of their own religion, is the key.

I;m sure you will disagree with me. But, you might give it a few minutes of thought. The God of the Scriptures will never allow His once-given religion to be bannished from the earth.

The Church does keep the original, Jewish calendar, in a developed form. See The Bible and the Liturgy by Jean Danielou. It will blow your mind! Shalom, brother.

 

[The_Geographer]

Some bishops and theologians have been shown up as hypocrites- they will receive their judgment. The Pope has not, contrary to media claims.

It will take more than word of mouth to bring this abused man to trust that much. Hopefully, he is not guilty of anything and even if he was he is still our beloved father, Pope Benedict XVI and the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church in spite of his history. And further I trust the pope more than I trust the media. So I’ll give our holy father the benefit of the doubt any day.

 

[The_Geographer]

Agreed. It’s just that Catholic Priests make vows before Holy God. They accept the price and state that they are willing to pay it.
This is absolutely correct.

Amen.

I didn’t follow this paragraph. Notice that the Judaic abusers in New York were reported to the police and action taken. It just wasn’t considered newsworthy. **The Catholic Church is singled out almost exclusively in that regard. **
This is SO True

 

[turtleoompa]

The Church has been through much worse in her 2000 year history. It will survive. This will be a time to clean out the very “few” bad priests and lay down some new more efficient ways of dealing with the very “few” abusers that exist. We have a “majority” of very good law abiding priests, please don’t forget them. I do find it very interesting that the victims have waited so long to reveal the “truth”. And they are quite old. They are adults. Why didn’t they go to the police while the case was not over the statute of limitations? The local priests and bishops can’t convict anyone, why go to them? Makes no sense to me. Mind you, I do believe there are offending priests and they should be taken care of by the law, not convicted in the Media. Remember there are Judas’s in every group, Jesus even picked one to be in His group. No human is perfect.

 

[The_Geographer]

The Church has been through much worse in her 2000 year history. It will survive. This will be a time to clean out the very “few” bad priests and lay down some new more efficient ways of dealing with the very “few” abusers that exist. We have a “majority” of very good law abiding priests, please don’t forget them. I do find it very interesting that the victims have waited so long to reveal the “truth”. And they are quite old. They are adults. Why didn’t they go to the police while the case was not over the statute of limitations? The local priests and bishops can’t convict anyone, why go to them? Makes no sense to me. Mind you, I do believe there are offending priests and they should be taken care of by the law, not convicted in the Media. Remember there are Judas’s in every group, Jesus even picked one to be in His group. No human is perfect.

You mean prime time media had the attention of the general public earlier than this century? The best I’ve heard is that Pope Benedict told the Bishops that had they been more like fathers than acting like CEOs and Manaagers this would not have happened.

 

[twb1621]

Eleven of the Apostles were faithful to Christ. One betrayed Him.
The good Priests and Religious greatly out-number the bad apples.
But they have been put on the defensive because of their evil colleagues
We need to let our Priests and Religious know how much we value them
by supporting them verbally, financially practically and spiritually.
:knight1::nun1:

Amen… The Faithful, the truly Faithful; we are the Church Militants