How do you convince those who do not believe life begins at conception?

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Abbadon said:
But there are lots of ways to kill a baby without having a safe abortion. You could do alot of things and claim neglect.

I doubt it would drastically reduce them, perhaps reduce them but to what end? It will just go underground as has drugs. Or be set up in international waters as some countries are now doing.

I think the best solution is to appeal to the emotions of women to not have the abortion.

I just don’t like the idea of forcing someone into a birth, criminalizing abortion does just that. You don’t need walls to have a prison.
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By your cold, inhuman “logic” we should also decriminalize infanticide and child abuse, as to not “trap” the mother with an unwanted child. Do not claim it is different. Murder is murder. I am now fully convinced you place no value whatsoever on human life.
 
CWBetts said:
By your cold, inhuman “logic” we should also decriminalize infanticide and child abuse, as to not “trap” the mother with an unwanted child. Do not claim it is different. Murder is murder. I am now fully convinced you place no value whatsoever on human life.
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Ummmm no… How did you make that leap? What on earth are you talking about? Your just taking everything I’m saying and twisting it.

Infants can be given up to the state for adoption, you cant remove a baby from a mother and give it up to the state without killing it. Until a certain age.
 
In or out of the womb makes no difference, but being an atheist, it is impossible to explain the dignity of himan life with no creator
 
CWBetts said:
In or out of the womb makes no difference, but being an atheist, it is impossible to explain the dignity of himan life with no creator
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I’m not an atheist just because I don’t believe in your god. I may have a god I just don’t know what it is yet…
 
Abbadon said:
I’m not an atheist just because I don’t believe in your god. I may have a god I just don’t know what it is yet…
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If you worship a “god” other than the one true God, you have no god at all. You have a demon, which again explains your utter disregard for himan life. If you cannot respect life of the most defenseless, you cannot respect it at all.
 
Does Jesus not love the non believer?

I do not claim special knowledge of god. I simply do not know. And I will not pretend to know. And I am doubtful of the evidence of those that claim to know.
 
CWBetts said:
If you worship a “god” other than the one true God, you have no god at all. You have a demon, which again explains your utter disregard for himan life. If you cannot respect life of the most defenseless, you cannot respect it at all.
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Are you this nasty to everyone? How would you expect any non believer to be swayed by you if you are so full of hate?

I never said I don’t respect the life of the most defenseless. I just don’t know what to do about it and how to balance both women having rights and saving the baby. AND have a good thriving society.
 
But I see that you are avoiding the real issue. The murder of the unborn. And it is murder. They are individuals of the human species with their own unique DNA, yet their destruction is acceptable in the name of convenience. Abhorrent. First the unborn, next the “right to die”, followed by the obligation to die. Who is the next group to be deemed unworty of life? The developmentally handicapped? Any handicap at all? Stutterers? Those prone to addictive behavioral patterns? We are living in an evil time.
 
Abbadon said:
But It can be made into a whole being, stem cells. Just as the stem cells in an embryo do. Or so I remember, cell biology is not my field.
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I don’t think The :Lord is blessing the process of scientific made babies. The babies are innocent of this but the scienists are not.
I think I’ll ask my pastor about this. why don’t you do the same. 🙂

jean8
 
Abbadon said:
Are you this nasty to everyone? How would you expect any non believer to be swayed by you if you are so full of hate?

I never said I don’t respect the life of the most defenseless. I just don’t know what to do about it and how to balance both women having rights and saving the baby. AND have a good thriving society.
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Do not confuse boldness with hate. The simple point of fact is thet no person has the right to take another’s life, for any reason. Period. I am sick and tired of atheists and agnostics playing the victim when it is they who are the persecutors of believers. It is they who go out of their way to silence any form of religious expression in the public square. It is they who claim that the existence of an intelligent creator must not be mentioned. They silence the textbooks in the public schools when in comes to matters of the heroic role men of God played in history. They think it a joke to desecrate the very Body of Christ for no other reason than to offend. You call me filled with hate because I choose to defend life by calling murder what it is. My hate speaks for those who have no voice. You prefer to defend the rights of spmeone to kill a human being for the sake of convenience. How hateful of me to want to protect the innocent.
 
jean8 said:
I don’t think The :Lord is blessing the process of scientific made babies. The babies are innocent of this but the scienists are not.
I think I’ll ask my pastor about this. why don’t you do the same. 🙂

jean8
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My priest (is that the same as pastor? Yes my mother is catholic and I go to church every Sunday and I am nice to everyone) isn’t a scientist working in and around the field so I doubt he would know.
 
Abbadon said:
My priest (is that the same as pastor? Yes my mother is catholic and I go to church every Sunday and I am nice to everyone) isn’t a scientist working in and around the field so I doubt he would know.
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In the Catholic Church, not all priests are pastors, but all pators are priests. Going to CHurch and being nice is not what it takes. God is the sole creator of life. Scientists who “grow” embryos for scientific research are in danger of losing their souls
 
Abbadon said:
But there is no way of knowing original intent.

I’m sure they do help them, but I’m talking about a monetary form of compensation.

But then what happens to all these children? Perhaps we could have a scheme were the pro life community will compensate and then adopt the baby from the mother. That would work wouldn’t it?
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Have you tried to adopt a child lately? It takes years. There simply is not enough babies. There is currently a waiting list of couples, hundreds, WILLING to adopt children with special needs. Babies that are killed in the womb, 90% of Down Syndrome children are killed in utero.

And, studies show FWIW that those who are conservative, and therefore more likely to be religious, are far more generous with giving their money to charitable causes than their more liberal counterparts. To suggest that prolifers aren’t doing their part is ludicrous.
 
CWBetts said:
In the Catholic Church, not all priests are pastors, but all pators are priests. Going to Church and being nice is not what it takes. God is the sole creator of life. Scientists who “grow” embryos for scientific research are in danger of losing their souls
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Well good thing I work on plants then isn’t it.

Is not what it takes for what? If it’s some sort of reward I’m not in it for that. I’m just honest about my position that’s all and no amount of fear will make me pretend otherwise. Plus if a god truly knows what is in our hearts then it truly knows what is in mine.

Well I’m off I have an organic chemistry exam to study for.

SCIENCE AWAY
 
Jennifer123 said:
Have you tried to adopt a child lately? It takes years. There simply is not enough babies. There is currently a waiting list of couples, hundreds, WILLING to adopt children with special needs.
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What about non special needs children? No way my little sister is adopted took no time at all, she was 5 at the time. Right now there are to many children that need homes, especially young ones, my friend works in foster care complains all the time. It might take years but it does not mean there are no children. Perhaps there are no babies? But there are alot of children.

But I digress I’m off.

The worlds turning into a better place, hopefully it keeps on going that way…
 
Any action that is against the intent of God is immoral. God’s purpose for human life is to know, love, and serve God and to be happy with Him in heaven.

Our abilities of intellect and freewill tell us that our existence is all about choice. We have the ability to know about the intent of God and our freewill allows us to decide to act in concert with or against the intent of God.

God’s design for the creation of souls is through procreation. A procreation whereby a man and a woman and God act together to produce an eternal soul that is in the image and likeness of God.

Although it is evil to act against a created being after the physical act of creation has taken place it is also evil to act to prevent the intent of God in any part of the process.

The process of life starts with a respect for all life and an understanding of God’s intent. This respect for life must be shown to each other at all times and in special ways during dating. As we move closer to the creation of life special care must be given not to act to deny the intent of God.

Actions, such as premarital sex outside of marriage should not be taken that diminish the desire to enter into the state of marriage.

Homosexual relationships are evil because they preclude all actions of procreation and are actions against the intent of God.

Birth control again acts against the intent of God and denies life.

Abortion is of great evil and most direct denial of life. Abortion not only denies life but also kills an existing life.

As bad as all the above are, even worse is the rationalization that may be the result of action against the life intent of God.

It is one thing to do wrong, recognize that wrong, and seek forgiveness. Christ came to bring that forgiveness.

It is the greatest of evil to deny wrong and to call it right. This is an unforgivable sin. No sin that is denied has the ability to be forgiven.
 
Abbadon said:
But what about a nice sincere woman? Completely in control of all her faculties, who for some reason or another needs to have this abortion? Will you just tie her up and feed her through a tube for 9 months? What kind of sick twisted society would we be if we did that to someone? How would that traumatize and effect her? Would she become suicidal, would it scar her? Women have been seen as the breeding pods of society for so long, we just cannot do something like that. It would send our society back morally and ethically to the middle ages.

No way that is so wrong and cruel. You can’t force someone to give up their life, If they need cancer treatment they should be able to get it. You cannot dictate to someone that they should die so someone else should live. That’s just so wrong, just re-read what you have written. I’m sorry that a baby has to die but you cannot do that, it is just so wrong. This is a fully sentient being, with memories, loved ones and perhaps children. What would you say to her other children should she have some? Sorry mommy had to die so your new baby could live, sorry she couldn’t get cancer treatment because? BECAUSE WHAT? because we stopped her from getting it.

I’m sorry but your wrong and your lack of empathy is sickening. I’m truly sorry that a baby has to die, but what kind of society do we want to become? I certainly hope not one like that. The best we can do is appeal to the conscience of individual women not to have an abortion.
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I think it’s pretty clear that you don’t have a problem with killing babies, so your attack on me seems ridiculous. And that’s a aside from the fact that it breaks the forum rules.

No one is forced to give up their own life instead of killing another, if it’s the other would cause their death. I said that in the beginning.

But you don’t get to kill someone because you want something–in the case above, cancer treatment.

No one has said that the mother can’t get cancer treatment. That’s entirely up to the mother.

Should we tie up women? Of course not. Please stop jumping off the deep end into hysterical suppositions.

As I said, we can’t hold women who want an abortion. Abortion is legal, so they have the legal (not moral, ethical, or just) right to kill their babies.

The answer isn’t to hold women so they can’t get a legalized abortion. The answer is the dump that law so woman don’t have the legal right to kill their babies.

Your arguments are hysterical and nonsensical.
 
Abbadon said:
Parasites live in a close obligatory association with one or more host species for most of their lives. They gain sustenance from their host, which is harmed but not often killed. Parasites are usually smaller than their host. They may live on the surface of their host or internally.

— Biology 3rd edition - Knox, Ladiges - Evans -Saint

Doesn’t say anything about it having to be a different species.
Parasites are sometimes desired you understand? Also we didn’t really cover parasites in Biology 102 (Genetics and the Evolution of Life) other than the ecological relationships of parasites.

But I could easily be wrong. Can you state a source for your claim?
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So you’re claiming that the baby is harming it’s mother. And more, that it spends most of its life in or on its host?

Using the defintion you’ve given, you’re wrong on those two points alone.

If you choose to call the embryo and the baby two different entities, then the embryo spends all of its life in the host. If you choose to call the embryo and the baby one entitiy, then it clearly spends most of its life outside, living independantly of any host.

Our intestines, which can harbor beneficial and harmful organisms, aren’t designed as living quarters for foreign bodies. The intestines purpose is obvious, so we don’t need to get into the details here.

The unterus, however, is designed as living quarters for what you call a parasite–a developing baby.

Where in the world are you getting your information? Didn’t you have sex ed. and basic biology in high school?
 
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