How do you feel about atheists?

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Regarding this sub-thread about the brain, and consciousness:

“It’s time for brain science, mind science, physics, cosmology, to move from kindergarten up into first grade and realize we will never truly understand consciousness with that simplistic materialist mindset.” (Eben Alexander, Harvard-educated neurosurgeon)
 
estesbob said:
I find it interesting the difference between how Christians view love as opposed to how atheists do;

Christians:

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Atheists:

Love is a chemical reaction in the brain.
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It’s a scientists training, which isn’t a bad thing. Most people see the beauty and majesty of a mountain range. Pretty to look at. The geologist sees geological formations. Try traveling with an engineer sometime. Educational and amusing. Everything can be engineered, and I mean everything. 😃 Apparently cognitive brain [something something] sees chemistry.

I live with a scientist, believe me, sometimes you have to just let them enjoy their over analyzed view of everything. Wonderful to have people who think that way though. We need sciences.
 
ffg said:
Here is the problem - I have the ability to ignore that message from my body.

Why?

I think if we define what I feel is flipped now, and we look at those ‘certain circumstances’ that you mentioned, we might find the ‘will’, which we can’t explain with biology.

Take care,

Mike
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Why do you think we can’t understand that with biology, I have a friend who monitors risk assessment and decisions making in rats. Rats can also ignore messages from the their bodies, I take it you do not believe they have a soul at work and free will?
 
josie_L said:
But you seem to be rather dogmatic about your position, and although there isn’t anything precisely concrete, there is enough evidence to suggest that the mind/consciousness and the brain are not one and the same.
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I would agree they are not the same, they are however inter related. I.e. we have not on shred of evidence In support of the idea that consciousness can exist without a physical brain.
 
estesbob said:
I find it interesting the difference between how Christians view love as opposed to how atheists do;

Christians:

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Atheists:

Love is a chemical reaction in the brain.
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It is far more than just a chemical reaction.
 
PRmerger said:
It is indeed inutile when questions are dodged.

I hope that you can cease from this by trying to think in the abstract, MrE.

It’s clear that you have that ability…sometimes.

And then other times you suddenly lose this ability. It’s quite weird.

Clearly, you know what a mind is. You claimed to be able to demonstrate it.

Now you’re saying you don’t know what a mind is.

#peculiar
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Well the mind this the set of cognitive faculties that allow allows us to think. I can directly measure these faculties using an MRi, EEG etc. If that is not demonstrating it, I don’t know what is?
 
PRmerger said:
What a curious set of propositions/responses have been limned here by you!
  • You have no idea if millipedes have minds.
  • You don’t know what a mind is.
  • You can demonstrate evidence for a mind.
One would think that if you really believed what it is that you’ve asserted initially (that you could demonstrate the existence of the mind), you would, of necessity, be of the position that yes, millipedes have minds.

All one has to do is set up electrodes in the millipedes’ brains, yes, and it would demonstrate electrical activity.

Right, MrE?

Millipedes have minds because they have electrical impulses in their brain that can be recorded, yes?
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The reason I asked you to define what you mean by mind is so that we are talking about the same thing. That fact you would mock that blows my mind, excuse the pun. This is common place in meaningful discussion, in fact in many cases it is critical.

I have to say I have been quite disappointed in some of the content, mockery and using silly faces, animated gifs to imply some sort of victory, all have no place in a meaningful discussion. It is even more painful when the victorious points of celebration are in fact nothing of the sort.

I would really appreciate it if we could stick to the topic and drop all the puerile nonsense.
 
MrEmpiricism said:
I would really appreciate it if we could stick to the topic and drop all the puerile nonsense.
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Er…no, MrE.

You’re not fooling anyone here.

You have shown over and over and over (and over) again that you are quite willing to diverge from the OP.

The fact that you are not willing to go here is telling.

Quite telling indeed.

Point for all to take home: if proof of the mind exists through EEGs, MRIs,** “etc”,** (whatever that is), then this means that any organism with a brain and electrical activity…has a mind.

And, clearly, that is one laughable and absurd assertion.

This thing has a mind?

http://f.tqn.com/y/insects/1/W/V/C/-/-/Archispirostreptus_gigas.jpg

 
Faithdancer said:
Yet another response to the OP:

All of us are depraved, wretched sinners. One difference between the deeply reflective Christian and the atheist seems to be that the Christian is aware of it and aware of the remedy-- Jesus Christ. Perhaps some atheists realize how depraved mankind is but instead of turning to the light of God they put their trust in works of man or turn to the bleakness of existentialism and nihilism-- utterly man-made philosophies that reflect man’s depravity rather than the goodness of God.
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If God, as the creator, is ultimately responsible for the world and the wretched state of it, then how can man be possibly expected to put their trust in the goodness of God? Look at it this way: I look at the whole of creation, and see a breakdown of quality control. The world is like a buggy beta release of an operating system. Jesus Christ was a patch that created more problems than it solved.
 
Darryl_Revok said:
If God, as the creator, is ultimately responsible for the world and the wretched state of it, then how can man be possibly expected to put their trust in the goodness of God? Look at it this way: I look at the whole of creation, and see a breakdown of quality control. The world is like a buggy beta release of an operating system. Jesus Christ was a patch that created more problems than it solved.
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I don’t think the world is wretched . And if it is God didn’t make it so, man did . You really do not have a even basic understanding of theology.
 
Darryl_Revok said:
If God, as the creator, is ultimately responsible for the world and the wretched state of it, then how can man be possibly expected to put their trust in the goodness of God? Look at it this way: I look at the whole of creation, and see a breakdown of quality control. The world is like a buggy beta release of an operating system. Jesus Christ was a patch that created more problems than it solved.
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How would you create a world where there is free will without the choice to do bad things?

And how would you create a world without compassion (a beautiful and good thing) without bad things occurring?

What would this world like like to you, Darryl, and how would you make it so we are not robots but are agents with the will to choose to love or not?
 
PRmerger said:
How would you create a world where there is free will without the choice to do bad things?

And how would you create a world without compassion (a beautiful and good thing) without bad things occurring?

What would this world like like to you, Darryl, and how would you make it so we are not robots but are agents with the will to choose to love or not?
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Of all the arguments against God I think one of the weakest is the idea that there cannot be a God because the world is not perfect
 
estesbob said:
Of all the arguments against God I think one of the weakest is the idea that there cannot be a God because the world is not perfect
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It certainly isn’t a contradiction, eh? God *could *exist even in an immeasureably evil world.

Evil exists therefore no God is a nonsequitur.

However, the existence of great pain and suffering in the world is I believe a legitimate question posed by atheists. It appeals to our emotions. It is a problem for believers, and one that needs to be addressed.

Of course, I do believe that it has been addressed and the Problem of Evil is simply an emotional appeal, similar to a child asking, “Why do I have to get shots? You’re a big Meanie for making me get them, Father!”
 
PRmerger said:
Er…no, MrE.

You’re not fooling anyone here.

You have shown over and over and over (and over) again that you are quite willing to diverge from the OP.

The fact that you are not willing to go here is telling.

Quite telling indeed.

Point for all to take home: if proof of the mind exists through EEGs, MRIs,** “etc”,** (whatever that is), then this means that any organism with a brain and electrical activity…has a mind.

And, clearly, that is one laughable and absurd assertion.

This thing has a mind?
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So what if that does not have a mind? A dog does, a chimp does.
 
MrEmpiricism said:
I would agree they are not the same, they are however inter related. I.e. we have not on shred of evidence In support of the idea that consciousness can exist without a physical brain.
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I would state rather that the physical brain cannot “exist” without the mind/consciousness.

p.s. Moreover, even when we die does not some remnant of our energy exist, well, what if this was our soul/consciousness?
 
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