How do you guys reconcile your faith with . .

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SevenSpirits

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How do you guys grapple with what seems to be a fairly broad consensus regarding the historical record and what it reveals about how the concept of the Abrahamic God evolved?

I am trying to get back into Christianity and am looking at Catholicism specifically, but I just can’t make myself really believe it. Not because of the arguments of philosophers or of scientists, or because I feel “religion” has had a negative impact on the world, but because of history.

I can feel as if Catholicism is true (I’ve had deeply spiritual experiences that have really left me wondering); think it might be good for society if more people adopted it, even. But I can’t make myself actually say, “YES, I feel as if the things it claims really happened.” No matter how moving I think the mass is or how much Christian ideas resonate with me, I feel I couldn’t practice in good conscience if I didn’t think it was…well, true.

And the reason, for me, is historical. From what I understand the roots of YHWH are those of a storm and war god that was incorporated into the Caananite pantheon. The concept of God has changed over time. What good reason do we have to insist that our current understanding, as articulated by the creeds of Christian faiths, is the correct one?

Now, I think that many of the great Catholic theologians have put forward some pretty interesting arguments for God; I have even found some of them convincing. I am a big admirer of St. Thomas Aquinas for instance. What always leads me back to doubt is the historical facts. It just seems so much simpler just to conclude that Catholicism, as well as the other Abrahamic religions (and, most likely, all religions of the world) are nothing more than products of their societies that were pragmatically useful to have around at the time, but can’t be believed in by many people anymore. Much as we are sorely lacking adequate replacements for them (this is the part where I tend to disagree with most atheists).

Regarding the historical record specifically here, how do you address it? I ask as a skeptic who wants to believe.
 
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SevenSpirits said:
The concept of God has changed over time.
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Yes, the concept of God has changed. In the Old Testament, you can see how it changed over the centuries from the time of Abraham to the time of Moses and Aaron, then again to the time of David and Solomon, and so on. It changed again, quite radically, in the New Testament. But God himself is unchanging. Our ideas about him change as human civilization changes, that’s all.
 
I am not sure I believe much of ancient history.
The Bible is not a history book! It is a book about faith. God has slowly revealed Himself to man. His full revelation is Jesus Christ. Everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus Christ! I hope that helps some.
 
This is a very good question, one that I don’t believe many of us are necessarily poised to answer, at least not over CAF. I think that it requires much study of both the evolution of history and the evolution of faith. What I will say is that faith and history are two of my most cherished topics, and I m constantly learning about them. For example, I am very interested in the historical development of the Bible, how it all came together over time, and what everything actually means (particularly for us as Christians today). One thing that I have found throughout my studies is that, while many of the stories in the Bible are not necessarily historically accurate, they reveal theological truth. This theological truth only developed among human societies over very long periods of time, slowly but surely. Yes, the earliest members of the Israelite community had a view of Yahweh as their national god, one out of many national gods in the Ancient Near East. But, as time went on, they began to understand this Yahweh as the one and only God. From there, Jesus emerged, and Christianity entered the world.

I would recommend getting a subscription to the Biblical Archaeology Society Online Archive. Hopefully, reading through its treasure trove of both historical and theological thought will help to bring all of these concepts together for you!

PM me is you want to talk about these topics more concretely.

May God bless you always! 🙂
 
Biblical archaeology has shown that many of the people and places in the Bible actually existed.
Second, the Catholic Church says that Jesus Christ, true man and true God, actually existed.

This may be a case where you could ask God to reveal Himself to you.

As far as other religions, and the development of religion in general, Pope Francis has said that God has allowed it. Meeting God is a spiritual thing.
 
This is a very interesting question! Historically speaking, the concept of God did “evolve.” The ancient Israelites were not monotheistic but practiced monolatry. This means that they did not deny the existence of other gods but worshiped One God. We also see evidence that the Israelite group who fled Egypt merged with Canaanites who fled oppressive leaders. The Canaanites there primarily worshiped the chief god in the Canaanite pantheon, El. This is likely where we get the name Isra-El.

We see over time, perhaps culminating during the Babylonian Captivity, that the Israelites began to deny the existence of other false gods and realized that there only existed One God. We must remember that Israel was heavily impacted by its neighbors, who were all regional superpowers. As such, we begin seeing cultural shifts to establish a uniquely Jewish identity, such as circumcision and an abolition of child sacrifice (which was commonly practiced in the Levant).

Even in Scripture we see the authors anthropomorphizing God. We see how God has human emotions. We see God changing His mind when convinced otherwise. We see God wrestling Jacob. However, we know rationally that God is unchanging and that these characterizations are a result of how we see God and not an account of God’s exact nature.

But through this, I find something more beautiful about God. We see the limitations of our humanity and how God continues to work with us and aid us in our own spiritual journey, personal and as a race of peoples. Overtime, God has remained the same, perfect and unchanging. But we change. And no matter where we are, God is still with us and still loves us.
 
God is the author of Scripture according to the Catechism. The authors used their intellects and knowledge but wrote what He wanted them to write and no more. Not just in Israel but in other countries, there were pagan gods. As Christianity spread, those other gods were abandoned.

New International Version
"You shall have no other gods before me.

New Living Translation
“You must not have any other god but me.

English Standard Version
“You shall have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:3
 
Man’s understanding has evolved. I would pray before the Blessed Sacrament for greater understanding. God will not deny the grace to a seeking heart.

If you had a profound spiritual experience, dwell on that first. The rest will follow, given time and prayer.
 
Either God the creator of the universe exists fully and totally, or there is no god. There cannot be a maybe god or a probable god the creator.

I take the first sentence in the Bible to be an absolute truth, 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth. The rest of the Bible is a lifetime journey of searching for God and striving to do his will.

In order to find God; you have to do something.
 
SevenSpirits said:
From what I understand the roots of YHWH are those of a storm and war god that was incorporated into the Caananite pantheon.
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That is not proven. That is what some agenda-driven experts claim. If you truly researched Bible archaeology you would find there are sites that contradict such a theory. Regardless, faith is a gift and reason will only take you so far.
 
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I find it difficult to believe Yahweh was originally a Caananite god. Yahweh as he is portrayed in the Old Testament doesn’t exactly break bread with this pantheon. My question would be: why would such a rupture occur, and is it plausible given what we know about the character of Yahweh and His chosen people?
 
Where are you getting your information from? The “I Am” of the burning bush is God. Other gods were pagan gods. And attempts to put the one true God into a mix of pagan gods is not a good idea. And then God is born and lives among us.

Studying history is fine but the truth of all of this is asking the living God, Jesus Christ, to reveal Himself to you. Biblical archaeology has shown many of the places mentioned in the Bible did exist.
 
Don’t historical interpretations keep changing as well? In other words, you state you cannot believe religious events really took place as described, therefore you cannot honestly believe in any religion. However, can you honestly believe in historical accounts, particularly when these involve ancient civilizations? How much do we really know about ancient peoples and their ways of life, and how much do we surmise based on scanty historical artifacts as well as the imposition of our modernistic viewpoints to the events of the past?
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
Don’t historical interpretations keep changing as well? In other words, you state you cannot believe religious events really took place as described, therefore you cannot honestly believe in any religion. However, can you honestly believe in historical accounts, particularly when these involve ancient civilizations? How much do we really know about ancient peoples and their ways of life, and how much do we surmise based on scanty historical artifacts as well as the imposition of our modernistic viewpoints to the events of the past?
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Should we then not be agnostic regarding all such accounts and events? Including the life of Jesus…
 
Not necessarily. You might instead believe based on faith more than reason, which people have been doing for centuries.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Not necessarily. You might instead believe based on faith more than reason, which people have been doing for centuries.
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Is faith then blind? Is it rational? If not, why does it demand respect or be regarded as the source of veracity?
 
As Pascal said: “Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait point”: the heart (faith) has its reasons that reason knows nothing of." Faith is not blind, but it should not be evaluated on the basis of ordinary human reason.
 
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