There was not just one day that the apostacy occured. It came upon the church gradually. If the gospel was so plain in the scriptures why were there so many different beliefs.
2 Peter 1:20. Private interpretation is to blame. The human ego and improper use of free will. Many of the earliest Christians had never seen the Gospels. The Gentiles had never seen the Hebrew scriptures. Some of the scriptures had not even been written when the earliest heresies began.
Why did Origen differ in his teachings that his mentor? Why are there no mention of many of the traditions that you follow today taught by the apostles or Christ himself?
First point of interest is geography: Origen was from Egypt. Joseph Smith (linguistic expert?) claimed to have translated “reformed Egyptian”, which was unknown to that point in human history. Not a trace of it anywhere on earth, but in the claim of Mr. Smith. Reason dictates that this is a problem. Anyway, Origen did not trust in the Church on the the creation of a soul, so he was teaching heresy, apparently in Egyptian. He was speaking only for himself. He was later excommunicated.
The apostacy begin when revelation stopped.
How so? Did what was revealed by God up to that point suddenly become false? Did the Church depart from what had been revealed? Rather, I see the apostasy begin when “revelation” continued (or, re-started).
We know that revelation stopped because the Canon is closed. How do you explain the canon closed.
To keep junk like the gnostic “gospels” out. Christians believe that Jesus was the final prophet. Case closed. If you want to continue revelation post-Christ, you are at your own risk - He Himself said that false prophets would arise, and you will agree that they have, correct? Leaving the door open invites demonic influence into a belief system.
God said all he had to say. Yet for forty days Christ spent teaching his apostles, and none of it is recorded? Why? It wasn’t important enough to be recorded? See you think that what you believe fits perfectly. It does not. It does not answer the questions that I have?
The Catholic Church (and the Eastern Orthodox) would survive even if they had zero scripture. They have the living Tradition, guided by the Holy Spirit. We are blessed to have the bible, but it is not necessary to faith in Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of all prophecy, and He made sure that the Holy Spirit taught the twelve everything.
As to “continuing revelation” how can you test the prophets? By the fulfillment of their prophecy, right? By this standard, was B.Y. a false prophet? His word, supposedly from God, was that dark skin was a curse. That was all reversed in 1978 (14 years after the Civil Rights Act). Hmmmm. “all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.” To me, this complete contradiction points to the utter failure of continuing revelation.
Why did Moses have such a hard time with Israel?
Disobedience. The same reason that the LDS have a disciplinary council.
How lone were they left in the dark? There are groups of people that have lived and died and left in the dark. At least there was a form of Godliness within the walls of Christianity.
Its a small recognition of truth, but that is a good start.
There is zero evidence that Moses saw a burning bush.
A non-consumed burning bush has but a single cause. A burning bosom, on the other hand, has a variety of causes, both earthly and supernatural. How do
you know?
And I have never said that the Bible is totally corrupt. We believe it is the word of God, but man has gotten his fingers into it and not only made mistakes, but has added to it and taken away from it. Some by mistake and some by evil intentions.
The LDS is forced to claim biblical corruption, as existing scripture does not square with the huge revision of God’s nature that was claimed by Joseph Smith.
Example: The LDS have a different view of the fall in the garden (Genesis 3). And, the scriptures were corrupted (a claim made much earlier by Islam) after the death of the last Apostle, correct?
OK, then explain why the Hebrews, who reject Jesus, have the identical five books of Moses that also hold man’s fall from grace being due to his disobedience via the desire to be a god. Since the devil offered godhood first to Eve, why are there no Mormon female gods? And the Catholics get hammered for not having female Priests!
And stop with the plagiarism. There are chapters of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon. But they are duelly noted and given proper credit to the original author.
This does not involve Isaiah. This involves word usage, spelling, vocabulary and phraseology from 17th century King’s English that parallel what Joseph Smith repeated in 19th century America. And, Moroni was originally an American man, but spoke the King’s English?
Catholics, and all Christians, believe what they believe, not due to emotion; not because of any burning in the bosom, but because of the grace of faith that is given by God. It is not complicated, it’s simple.
Consider: All ancient manuscripts that have turned up in various places of the ancient middle east over the past 2,000 years, all match - with only tiny differences attributable to copyist error. If there was a great apostasy, it was begun even before Christ. Therefore, the LDS must believe that it began with Moses, as even Genesis 3 is corrupted. Are you claiming this?
