How do you know the Bible is the word of God

[Porknpie]

So the bible is a “man-made sacramental object” - huh? Wow. how reverent.

I do not practice idolatry, but I believe that you do, when you bow down and worship bread.

**I do not deify the Bible. ** But I revere the content of the Holy Scriptures to be God’s word.

AD70 -

But you do defy the bible. The Church from the beginning believed in the Real Presence of the Eucharist… this is both scriptural (read John 6 bread of life discourse slowly and out loud) and historically documented in the church. You also have to reconcile how St Ignatius of Antioch could be so wrong…he was a student of St. John…who was a student of Jesus himself.

“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).

“[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood…” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).

“He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).

If you can not trust the bible and the early church fathers on the real presence, you also can not trust that the 66 books in your bible are the inspired and infallible word of God (keeping in mind that you are missing 7… removed by a printing press…that were in the original King James Version…making your written Word of God incomplete )

Turkey in the Oven and smelling good! Happy thanksgiving all…

 

[dzheremi]

By the way, the blog that I took that photograph of the Coptic liturgy from, Orthocath, has a really good post on the belief of the early Church regarding the real presence in the Eucharist. It would be interesting to get everyone’s response to it, now that the conversation has turned to this subject.

 

[po18guy]

So the bible is a “man-made sacramental object” - huh? Wow. how reverent.

I am using hyperbole in an attempt to shake you from your tradition of viewing the bible as a living, final authority - which itself is contrary to the bible! You and I both know that the bible is not God. His ideas are conveyed through it, but all bibles - all of them - are man-made translations of copies of copies of copies of the ancient writer’s original work. Not one single letter of original scripture exists - zero. Everything we have today is fallible man’s fallible translation of numerous copies from numerous languages. This is why the bible, with its fallible translations, must be interpreted by a permanent, living, human authority - which is clear from our Savior’s words.

Quote me your favorite bible verse - I can find a different translation that puts it in a different light. Who is correct? You clearly believe that you are correct, while I believe in the biblical Church that Christ founded. Sadly you have the bible’s relationship to the Church reversed. The Church had the authority to, and did indeed produce the bible. Error occurs when one attempts to fashion a church from only the partial record contained in the bible. This has produced 30,000 denominations and counting. Some foundation!

I do not practice idolatry, but I believe that you do, when you bow down and worship bread.

Could you conceivably be wrong? Please realize that, 1,900 years before fundamentalism appeared on earth, the consecrated Eucharist was known to be Christ present among us. This is by Christ’s own words in the bible, yet even as the infallible Word of God, you do not believe it! Are you missing something?

I do not deify the Bible.

It is near impossible to tell this, based on your very words.

But I revere the content of the Holy Scriptures to be God’s word.

I believe the same - but those words are twisted by the devil, correct? How can you possibly know that you are right, when you have no authority to interpret? Throughout your posts, it is clear that you absolutely believe that you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong. Is this truly possible?

Wherever you go from here, please keep seeking the fulness of truth, which the bible tells you must be found outside of itself.

 

[po18guy]

but I believe that you do, when you bow down and worship bread.

The Pharisees and Sadducees looked upon Christ and did not recognize him either. You have much company in this regard - and pause to contemplate your belief.

Is it even possible that Catholics and Orthodox Christians look upon what was bread and see Christ, while you look upon Christ and see only bread?

 

[CopticChristian]

So the bible is a “man-made sacramental object” - huh? Wow. how reverent.

I do not practice idolatry, but I believe that you do, when you bow down and worship bread.

I do not deify the Bible. But I revere the content of the Holy Scriptures to be God’s word.

Ad,

You do realize that incomplete Protocanonicals are man made don’t you?

 

[AD70]

Wisdom is justified in her children.

No wonder there are barely any non-catholics on this site. They get called heretics for being partial preterists, with no infractions to protect their right of conscience. They are accused of idolatry and deifying the Bible, but when they respond in like manner concerning bread worship - they receive infractions.

I am obviously out numbered here, and you guys therefore have the appearance of strength through the multitude of responses. Most of you guys probably think that Protestants can’t hang and after a while they just drop off and don’t come back - like as if they cannot handle the heat. This is not true. The truth is, they get banned by the administrators. So who is ducking out? With only the appearance of strength - it is the administrators who are the weak ones.

I have been banned from this site 14 times and each time I come back with the clear truth. So please understand that if you soon see me missing, it is not because I somehow cannot take the heat. Trust me. I can take the heat. My forefathers have taken the heat of being burned at the stake by the Romish church all throughout church history. You can deny it all you want, but God knows. Your church has been the greatest persecutor of Christians in all of world history.

The collection of the sacred writings was an infallible collection conducted by a fallible church. The element of infallibility rests not with the church, but in the divine providence of Almighty God, who is able to preserve his word unto every generation of his elect.

This is the truth.

 

[dzheremi]

No wonder there are barely any non-catholics on this site. They get called heretics for being partial preterists, with no infractions to protect their right of conscience. They are accused of idolatry and deifying the Bible, but when they respond in like manner concerning bread worship - they receive infractions.

I don’t think this is really fair. 99% of the Protestants who post here do not accuse Catholics of ‘bread worship’, and hence do not receive infractions. Don’t call veneration of the Eucharist ‘bread worship’ and you won’t receive infractions, either.

I have been banned from this site 14 times and each time I come back with the clear truth. So please understand that if you soon see me missing, it is not because I somehow cannot take the heat. Trust me. I can take the heat. My forefathers have taken the heat of being burned at the stake by the Romish church all throughout church history.

I’m sorry that you are unappreciated for all your sacrifices, but perhaps you would experience less resistance (and fewer bannings) if you refrained from writing about how often you’ve been banned (I thought that circumventing bans was itself a ban-able offense…) and how you come back with “clear truth”, because I’d wager to guess that most people here – Catholic and non – can tell the difference between your opinion and the truth as their faiths lay it down. You should at least try to respect that, even in disagreement with it. That goes over much better than complaining because you’re banned so often. I don’t know you from Adam, but I’m thinking that if I were you after the second or third banning (and certainly the fourteenth), I might start thinking “Hmmm…maybe it’s me?” A little introspection and humility never hurt anybody.

 

[Porknpie]

This is the truth.

And so is this

But you do defy the bible. The Church from the beginning believed in the Real Presence of the Eucharist… this is both scriptural (read John 6 bread of life discourse slowly and out loud) and historically documented in the church. You also have to reconcile how St Ignatius of Antioch could be so wrong…he was a student of St. John…who was a student of Jesus himself.

“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

A non-response is a response.

 

[po18guy]

Wisdom is justified in her children. I have been banned from this site 14 times and each time I come back with the clear truth. My forefathers have taken the heat of being burned at the stake by the Romish church all throughout church history. Your church has been the greatest persecutor of Christians in all of world history.

Instead of streams of invective, a calm, rational response to the Catholic viewpoint would have been greatly appreciated. If anger, dishonesty (willful rule violations) and insults are what the bible has taught you, then we both need prayer. I am afraid that you have done more to harm your opinion than to help.

 

[JustaServant]

I don’t think this is really fair. 99% of the Protestants who post here do not accuse Catholics of ‘bread worship’, and hence do not receive infractions. Don’t call veneration of the Eucharist ‘bread worship’ and you won’t receive infractions, either.

I’m sorry that you are unappreciated for all your sacrifices, but perhaps you would experience less resistance (and fewer bannings) if you refrained from writing about how often you’ve been banned (I thought that circumventing bans was itself a ban-able offense…) and how you come back with “clear truth”, because I’d wager to guess that most people here – Catholic and non – can tell the difference between your opinion and the truth as their faiths lay it down. You should at least try to respect that, even in disagreement with it. That goes over much better than complaining because you’re banned so often. I don’t know you from Adam, but I’m thinking that if I were you after the second or third banning (and certainly the fourteenth), I might start thinking “Hmmm…maybe it’s me?” A little introspection and humility never hurt anybody.

You know what amazes me?
How these “born again”, “spirit-filled”, oh, so spiritually superior people seem to have no problem lying to to get back on the forum.
I guess the Spirit was out that day.

Well, you’ve convinced me AD dude. I’m leaving the Catholic Church and joining yours following your fine spiritual example.

 

[po18guy]

You know what amazes me?
How these “born again”, “spirit-filled”, oh, so spiritually superior people seem to have no problem lying to to get back on the forum.
I guess the Spirit was out that day.

Well, you’ve convinced me AD dude. I’m leaving the Catholic Church and joining yours following your fine spiritual example.

You know, they follow a pattern of initial reasonableness, followed by a digging in of their heels, followed by final attacks and nastiness. Rather than examine a much older viewpoint, the ad hominem attacks come. Yet, notice how they have zero comment about the Orthodox Churches, which have those same “horrible” Apostolic Traditions that the Catholic does? To me, it smells more like teen spirit than the Holy Spirit - in that you are spot on. Still, they need prayer no worse than I do.

 

[JustaServant]

You know, they follow a pattern of initial reasonableness, followed by a digging in of their heels, followed by final attacks and nastiness. Rather than examine a much older viewpoint, the ad hominem attacks come. Yet, notice how they have zero comment about the Orthodox Churches, which have those same “horrible” Apostolic Traditions that the Catholic does? To me, it smells more like teen spirit than the Holy Spirit - in that you are spot on. Still, they need prayer no worse than I do.

A “teen spirit” is right. Even if he’s a grown man, the immaturity is evident.
Even as a fundy once myself I had the brains not to enter someones house (which this forum is) and insult the owners. If he’s hoping to “evangelize” he’s failing miserably.

Time to give up AD.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

I don’t think this is really fair. 99% of the Protestants who post here do not accuse Catholics of ‘bread worship’, and hence do not receive infractions. Don’t call veneration of the Eucharist ‘bread worship’ and you won’t receive infractions, either.

I’m sorry that you are unappreciated for all your sacrifices, but perhaps you would experience less resistance (and fewer bannings) if you refrained from writing about how often you’ve been banned (I thought that circumventing bans was itself a ban-able offense…) and how you come back with “clear truth”, because I’d wager to guess that most people here – Catholic and non – can tell the difference between your opinion and the truth as their faiths lay it down. You should at least try to respect that, even in disagreement with it. That goes over much better than complaining because you’re banned so often. I don’t know you from Adam, but I’m thinking that if I were you after the second or third banning (and certainly the fourteenth), I might start thinking “Hmmm…maybe it’s me?” A little introspection and humility never hurt anybody.

Sometimes they seep through the cracks.
I only found five usernames, but he would know better.
I normally delete the posts of a circ, but I’m leaving his up as a wonderful bad example.

 

[JustaServant]

Sometimes they seep through the cracks.
I only found five usernames, but he would know better.
I normally delete the posts of a circ, but I’m leaving his up as a wonderful bad example.

Perhaps “crack” is the key word.

Thanks Eric.
Back to topic.

 

[JustaServant]

One more thing before a return to the topic.

AD, if you are reading this you need to be aware that repeated circumvention of a ban is considered online harrasment. If the mods choose to, your internet provider would be notified (God help you if you are doing it from your work) and you can be prosecuted.
So think about that before you re-register.

 

[Porknpie]

One more thing before a return to the topic.

AD, if you are reading this you need to be aware that repeated circumvention of a ban is considered online harrasment. If the mods choose to, your internet provider would be notified (God help you if you are doing it from your work) and you can be prosecuted.
So think about that before you re-register.

I would also point him to the 8th commandment. I assume he understands this as a commandment and not a suggestion. This can be found in his KJV bible that he is using. The Word needs to be followed not just read. From the catechism below.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

It was said to the men of old, “You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.”

2464 The eighth commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in our relations with others. This moral prescription flows from the vocation of the holy people to bear witness to their God who is the truth and wills the truth. Offenses against the truth express by word or deed a refusal to commit oneself to moral uprightness: they are fundamental infidelities to God and, in this sense, they undermine the foundations of the covenant.

 

[po18guy]

Sometimes they seep through the cracks.
I only found five usernames, but he would know better.
I normally delete the posts of a circ, but I’m leaving his up as a wonderful bad example.

Eric, do you have a defense? You are named as one who denies him the soapbox from which he can proclaim “clear truth”!

 

[po18guy]

One more thing before a return to the topic.

AD, if you are reading this you need to be aware that repeated circumvention of a ban is considered online harrasment. If the mods choose to, your internet provider would be notified (God help you if you are doing it from your work) and you can be prosecuted.
So think about that before you re-register.

The ego that boasts of lack of charity (14 times) is also the ego that privately interprets scripture. Prayers ascending.

 

[JustaServant]

Eric, do you have a defense? You are named as one who denies him the soapbox from which he can proclaim “clear truth”!

Mods aren’t allowed to comment on threads, but I think what he is saying is that AD’s posts pretty much speak for themselves.

 

[po18guy]

Mods aren’t allowed to comment on threads, but I think what he is saying is that AD’s posts pretty much speak for themselves.

I should have identified this as a rhetorical question.