How do you know what's reality when two people differ?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yeah, but, I mean…the huge moral issues aside, open recording would be a blatantly aggressive move, and secret recording would be logistically impossible, not to mention highly illegal.

We’re not talking about recording a business transaction - we’re talking about recording someone in their own home.

Your original question was about distinguishing reality. Reality of a conversation YOU took part in. If you can’t do that and honestly don’t know what you said. You may need profesional intervention.

But for some reason I’ll bet that’s impossible too.

 

[pensmama87]

Yeah, but, I mean…the huge moral issues aside, open recording would be a blatantly aggressive move, and secret recording would be logistically impossible, not to mention highly illegal.

We’re not talking about recording a business transaction - we’re talking about recording someone in their own home.

By “recording” I more meant along the lines of writing it down in a journal afterward…

When I was a teacher, I kept notes on the conversations I had with students and parents. Just in case.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I live in a one party consent record state. Meaning one of the parties (me) is all that is needed for consent. I’ve recorded many conversations in work environments. Never really had to use them though…

 

[DarkLight]

Your original question was about distinguishing reality. Reality of a conversation YOU took part in. If you can’t do that and honestly don’t know what you said. You may need profesional intervention.

But for some reason I’ll bet that’s impossible too.

It’s really hard to explain how it is unless you’ve lived it. I know what would look right to me normally. But I have no indication that she’s lying or unusually out of touch with reality - she seems generally functional and as far as I can tell seems to believe what she says. So what’s going on? It’s not like the conversations are completely different, just different enough to be really different.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It’s really hard to explain how it is unless you’ve lived it. I know what would look right to me normally. But I have no indication that she’s lying or unusually out of touch with reality - she seems generally functional and as far as I can tell seems to believe what she says. So what’s going on? It’s not like the conversations are completely different, just different enough to be really different.

Thats a lot of double talk and justification. I hope counseling helps. I’m not sure how much help for you posting about your unhealthy relationship with your mom is, if you never take steps to remedy it.

 

[DarkLight]

Thats a lot of double talk and justification. I hope counseling helps. I’m not sure how much help for you posting about your unhealthy relationship with your mom is, if you never take steps to remedy it.

You assume I haven’t tried counseling. I’ve had so many counselors I’ve lost track. The result of counseling, generally, is that I spiral down quickly from holding it together to where I want to kill myself. But I’ve had enough counselors to know that you can go to three different counselors and you’ll get three entirely different views and interpretations of the situation. When you don’t just get a bunch of plain old useless stuff that they won’t explain, which is what usually happens.

At least here people speak plainly enough, not the weird confusing psych-speak that characterizes professional counseling.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You assume I haven’t tried counseling. I’ve had so many counselors I’ve lost track. The result of counseling, generally, is that I spiral down quickly from holding it together to where I want to kill myself. But I’ve had enough counselors to know that you can go to three different counselors and you’ll get three entirely different views and interpretations of the situation.

So what is the point of the posting if these issues if you feel there is no answer that satisfies you.

Counseling is really the only advice we can give.

Except I’ll say again. Move out of your mom’s house and be independent.

 

[Xantippe]

By “recording” I more meant along the lines of writing it down in a journal afterward…

When I was a teacher, I kept notes on the conversations I had with students and parents. Just in case.

Yeah, you can do that without it being weird or hostile.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yeah, you can do that without it being weird or hostile.

Why? No one has to know. The OP obviously has enough freedom to post for months on here private thoughts and stories of the mom. What’s different about a private record of conversations that are leading to a question of reality?

 

[Xantippe]

Why? No one has to know. The OP obviously has enough freedom to post for months on here private thoughts and stories of the mom. What’s different about a private record of conversations that are leading to a question of reality?

It’s just a little less creepy to scribble down in your diary, “Mom says we are going to Costco next weekend!” or “Mom says spaghetti tomorrow night!” rather than taping everything mom says to you.

It allows for more selectivity and it’s more socially acceptable.

Plus, in practice, it’s a pain to deal with voice recordings.

DL only needs to have this for her own satisfaction, not to prove it to anybody else, so contemporaneous written notes are good enough.

Edited for typo.

 

[DarkLight]

So what is the point of the posting if these issues if you feel there is no answer that satisfies you.

Counseling is really the only advice we can give.

Except I’ll say again. Move out of your mom’s house and be independent.

Because I really do want to know. How do you tell? Are there things you can look at to reassure yourself of what’s going on, or to judge that you’re really seeing things ok? How do you know you’re not crazy?

If nothing else, think of it as looking for a few tools that I can use to help myself get through the situation at hand - even if the only thing those tools do is help me mind my own sanity while there.

I’m looking at moving out - I’ll post the numbers later in my financial planning thread. But sometimes the questions are just getting you through the next little bit.

 

[Nap66]

I’ve found that all people live in their own realities. What you think you heard or saw can be totally different from what some other person heard or saw, and that can be totally different from what a third person heard or saw.

Pointing out your reality to the other person just screws up that person’s reality and makes that person angry. I too have that dynamic with my mother and ex-husband. Sometimes the things they say to me are so far out there that I can’t believe we live in the same dimension. But I have to ignore it, because their realities are not mine.

Can you ignore your mother and still live peacefully? Hard thing to do, I understand. But even if you do move out, when you are around your mother at times her reality will still be different from yours. How will you continue to deal with that other than ignoring it?

 

[DarkLight]

I’ve found that all people live in their own realities. What you think you heard or saw can be totally different from what some other person heard or saw, and that can be totally different from what a third person heard or saw.

Pointing out your reality to the other person just screws up that person’s reality and makes that person angry. I too have that dynamic with my mother and ex-husband. Sometimes the things they say to me are so far out there that I can’t believe we live in the same dimension. But I have to ignore it, because their realities are not mine.

Can you ignore your mother and still live peacefully? Hard thing to do, I understand. But even if you do move out, when you are around your mother at times her reality will still be different from yours. How will you continue to deal with that other than ignoring it?

I don’t know. I don’t know that there is a way to deal with it other than ignoring it. I haven’t come up with one yet.

 

[CradleJourney]

It’s really hard to explain how it is unless you’ve lived it. I know what would look right to me normally. But I have no indication that she’s lying or unusually out of touch with reality - she seems generally functional and as far as I can tell seems to believe what she says. So what’s going on? It’s not like the conversations are completely different, just different enough to be really different.

Welcome to my world Fortunately I don’t have the situation of living with a relative like this, but I do have them and have to deal with them. It can be very disconcerting and upsetting.

In general I try to remember that almost on one can ever remember conversations verbatim, and that what one remembers is filtered through one’s own perceptions, experiences, and emotions. Which results in the classic truth that what I say isn’t necessarily what someone else hears (and vice versa).

But you are equally entitled to your “truth” as anyone - it’s real to you. You surely know what you meant to communicate whether that’s what she chose to hear /remember or not. Hold to that and though you may want to try to take measures to better ensure future clarity (I’ve learned to text / email some family members because no matter how carefully I tell them a date or time, they’ll insist I told them a different one. So I just follow up the conversation with a “written” message) - it’s sometimes better to just let it go with a “sorry, you feel that way / thought I said that / misunderstood me” and then disengage. You can never change what someone else is convinced of in their mind as truth. You can only control your own experience / behavior / emotions / reactions.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Because I really do want to know. How do you tell? Are there things you can look at to reassure yourself of what’s going on, or to judge that you’re really seeing things ok? How do you know you’re not crazy?

If nothing else, think of it as looking for a few tools that I can use to help myself get through the situation at hand - even if the only thing those tools do is help me mind my own sanity while there.

I’m looking at moving out - I’ll post the numbers later in my financial planning thread. But sometimes the questions are just getting you through the next little bit.

Like someone else said, write it all down. I went through this with a variety of family members. It was part of the reason I started keeping a journal. I believe there were a variety of reasons for why this went on (and still goes on with some of people involved). Like pianistclare said, some of them didn’t like the version of events I presented because it didn’t fit the current situation. With others, I’d been pigeonholed into a role in their mind and my behavior didn’t fit their narrative. They picked and chose events from past family anecdotes and applied them to me. Unfortunately, several of the others adopted these retold tales to fit in with their own realities which meant I was fighting a losing battle since it went from my word against one other person’s, to my word against a group. Keeping a journal didn’t win me any points or arguments, but it helped me keep an accurate account of what really went on and reassured me that I wasn’t the one seeing things other than how they really were.

The bad part about it is that it likely won’t do you any good with the other person in the long run. In my case there were several major events that I remembered quite clearly that others chose to rewrite and paint me as the perpetrator. Several of these were recorded on home videos while others were written about by other family members in letters and emails. While going through a dearly departed’s belongings, I found the videotapes and letters, then later found old emails, all of which proved that my version of events was the accurate one. When presented with this, the people who chose to see things differently ignored them completely and said that my attempts to confuse the issue were just further proof of what they’d been saying about me all along (in other words, my proving that their lies were lies just showed what an awful and dishonest person I was). So go ahead and journal or whatever for your own gratification, but don’t expect it to improve the underlying situation.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Because I really do want to know. How do you tell? Are there things you can look at to reassure yourself of what’s going on, or to judge that you’re really seeing things ok? How do you know you’re not crazy?

If nothing else, think of it as looking for a few tools that I can use to help myself get through the situation at hand - even if the only thing those tools do is help me mind my own sanity while there.

I’m looking at moving out - I’ll post the numbers later in my financial planning thread. But sometimes the questions are just getting you through the next little bit.

Record it in some capacity.

Do Dave Ramsey’s baby steps after step 1. Move out.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I don’t know. I don’t know that there is a way to deal with it other than ignoring it. I haven’t come up with one yet.

Except with all these problems you don’t really take steps to change it.

 

[DarkLight]

Except with all these problems you don’t really take steps to change it.

You talk like it’s simple.

I’ve been moved out before. I ended up back with my parents because I was working too hard to try to make ends meet and my health couldn’t sustain it. I was skipping meals routinely because I’d come home and I wouldn’t have enough energy to eat.

There’s a lot you don’t see on here. You don’t see the fiddling with medications to try to figure out how to reduce fatigue. You don’t see the jobs I’ve put in for and not gotten (or the never-ending annoyance of investigating and finding out they’re not worth it). You don’t see the time put into trying to learn new skills.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You talk like it’s simple.

I’ve been moved out before. I ended up back with my parents because I was working too hard to try to make ends meet and my health couldn’t sustain it. I was skipping meals routinely because I’d come home and I wouldn’t have enough energy to eat.

There’s a lot you don’t see on here. You don’t see the fiddling with medications to try to figure out how to reduce fatigue. You don’t see the jobs I’ve put in for and not gotten (or the never-ending annoyance of investigating and finding out they’re not worth it). You don’t see the time put into trying to learn new skills.

You are right. I only see what you show me. And none of what you post about your mother is virtuous. So either she is horrible and causing you to question reality, or she is someone who you need to live and takes care of you. Now she may be a little of both, but you really should think about two things.

1. It’s always that simple. It just may not be that pleasant
2. You should maybe not post to potentially millions of strangers negative things about your mom.

 

[DarkLight]

Sometimes the truth is that all the options are bad, and you have to figure out how to live with the ones you have, not the ones people say you should have.