How Do You Know Your Interpretation Is Correct?

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 1.Obviously, I spoke of the 'devil' (in quotes) with tongue-in-cheek. I believe in the existence of evil, certainly, but tend to dismiss the usual depictions of Satan.

  2. No, I reject the idea of a chosen people, apart from the fact that we are all chosen in a sense. Jesus certainly lifted up the Samaritans in the Gospels and they were despised as 'unclean' by the ancient Hebrews. My view of God is that the Lord is just, and justice and a chosen people don't coexist easily. Besides, with maybe 100 million or more gallaxies out there I often wonder if God focuses so much attention upon this one tiny planet and spotlights this one small group.  Maybe. Just not sure. This concept of a chosen people, by the way, is a major reason we're in the mess today in the Middle East. I have great sympathy for the Jewish people, who were persecuted for centuries by Christians and others, but the idea that God is heavy into apportioning real estate always struck me as a primitive notion. I have been on pilgrimage to the Holy Land four times and every time returned with more sympathy for the Palestinians. Had we been compassionate and evenhanded, both genuinely pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian over the years, we might have avoided the mess, even including 9-11. Frankly, I believe the Pope agrees with me, but that is conjecture on my part.

  3. I'm not totally convinced that the Hebrew people ever were slaves in Egypt. Scholars haven't found a single piece of evidence that they were there. Read Theophile Meek's book *Hebrew Origins.* I certainly have some doubts that Moses turned his rod into a snake, and I can't imagine God sending an angel to murder the firstborn of every Egyptian family. Etc. Most of the plagues, by the way, can be seen as exaggerated examples of natural occurrences in Egypt, 

 4. Speaking of dualism, I find that in some aspects of Christianity. Isn't that what God vs. Satan is all about? Our Jehovah Witness friends go so far as to see the earth contolled by the devil. Didn't he take Jesus on to a high mountain and promise to give him all the kingdoms of the world if Christ would worship him? Now, if he could give all the kingdoms he must reign over all the kingdoms. Thus JWs say, every nation is under Satanic control, which is why they refuse to salute the flag, vote, and more. Now I reject JW teaching, of course, but this particular teaching of theirs shows how easy it is to quote scripture to justify all manner of belief.

 5. The tendency on CAF is to accuse skeptics like me of egotism, placing our own opinions above those of the church, etc. Not entirely. I respect most faiths because none of us has the full truth. I join other seekers and pilgrims. What I do maintain is that we should have the freedom to seek (and find) spiritual truth rather than accept what is given us by any religion. Certain forms of Christianity (traditional Catholicism and fundamentalist Protestantism, etc) and certainly Islam insist that we accept their teachings, period. I feel the right and even responsibility to weigh things and decide what seems to me reasonable and what I can't believe. Some will dismiss this as egotism; others will accept it as my choice. As for fearing God's retribution for my 'disbelief', I don't fret for a moment about that. God certainly is fair and my guess is that he respects those who use their God-given brain as long as we follow the essential principles: love him and one another.

 6, Twice I spent time in a Trappist monastery in Quebec (Oka). I have tried to be well-read in Catholicism as in other faiths. I have read most of the Church Fathers and find Origen my favorite - a wicked heretic, I understand. Early on he realized that much in the Gospels was to be taken symbolically and not literally. My problem with the Church Fathers is that despite incisive and brilliant minds they didn't have the benefit of modern telescopes and microscopes and their writings are filled with misinformation that was widely believed at that time. If I could believe all that Catholicism requires, I would be a good Catholic, as I greatly admire its work among the poor, through its hospitals, and its schools around the world. But one has to be honest with oneself. Polls seem to suggest that half or so of Catholics in the US share my doubts about major doctrines. So, I certainly don't feel isolated or a pioneer of any sort. Many have traveled this route before.

  7. For those of you who believe that God ordered Joshua to murder the inhabitants of Jericho and Ai and that he commanded Saul to murder every remaining Amalekite, I assume you believe also that the ends justify the means. I have some difficulty with this, and especially where God is concerned. How many abortions, for example, have been justified based on that concept? Millions. 

  God bless everybody who seeks to live by the teachings of Christ, which - as he said - were basically love him and one another.
Hi Roy,
there is no doubt that you have really researched a lot for truth. But you own posts confirm that you search continues and you’ve reached nowhere… I have no intention to offend while giving this piece of genuine advice:
  • Your search is mostly (or wholly?) out of mere curiosity and you already have preconceived bias
  • God and His truth are never too far from those who sincerely seek with simplicity of heart* Preconceived beliefs will only lead you to see what you wanted to see and reinforce your preconceived beliefs
 
I just got back …working since 8 pm last night to tonight…am seeing responses…

Anna, what you shared with me deeply moves me. You are experiencing now the sacred in the Catholic Church…Mary is Christ’s gift to the Catholics.

I went to the Dominican parish last night. We had a visiting priest from Savanna, Georgia who deals with fundamentalism all the time. He interrupted the final blessing to have us extend to others this…

In regards to the Assumption of Mary into heaven…Christ is the head of our Church…Therefore we honor His mother. And as Mary gave Christ His body and blood, and we are now Christ’s body…Mystical Body…Mary is now our mother.

How blessed Catholic and Orthodox women are who have Marya as our companion…the New Eve…she will take us closer and faster to Jesus…because she and He were one…

Because true Catholicism, through the celibate clergy, religious and virgins, shows the final victory of the spirit over flesh…total renunciation of self for Jesus…you keep going…you are going in the right way…Mary wants to be your companion…ask Mary in union with the Holy Spirit…Who is the one who makes the Pope infallible not the man himself…will show you many things.

We have the communion of saints…heaven sees us with a thousand eyes…the spiritual reality of this world is infinitely greater than the finite world we see through faith. There is a new world of faith awaiting you…I have been praying for you…

The Church does not know if Mary suffered death or if she died and then was taken by Our Lord to be with Him in heaven. We just know she was assumed body and soul into heaven because she did not sin.

But Revelations and aspects of the Gospels teach us that some day we will have glorified bodies after we are purified—either by accepting all the crosses the Lord gives us every day and fulfilling His will in Christ’s love…or further purgation in the next…when we have no more will to sin, like Mary, then, we took in God’s time will also share in the effects of the Assumption.

I LOVE YOU!!!
Kathleen
 
As to other posters, I will get back tomorrow…

Yes, Father illuminated us, as we have our own private inhibitions about aspects of God in the Old Testament…a God of Vengeance and killing…??? Father said God is always love. I remember an Old Testament passage that nothing pleases God more than loving each other as brethren. That is the fulfillment of His will.

The author of Sacred Scripture is God…but He uses human beings like ourselves…the Holy Spirit moved through the Jewish people to keep themselves separate, to prepare for the Messiah, a Chosen People…There are remnants today in the Middle East that still have the spirit of Ameldek…

My Jewish friends said what is happening in the MIddle East is not really religion…but fratricide…Ishmael and Isaac? Roy Shoeman has his take in that book I recommended, ’ Salvation is from the Jews’…and there are Jews becoming Catholic and they are a class act.

They are having a gathering in October…wish I could go…great people…I will come back tomorrow…

God bless you all and endure in your quest for union with the only Truth in this world…Jesus Christ.
 
I just got back …working since 8 pm last night to tonight…am seeing responses…

Anna, what you shared with me deeply moves me. You are experiencing now the sacred in the Catholic Church…Mary is Christ’s gift to the Catholics.

I went to the Dominican parish last night. We had a visiting priest from Savanna, Georgia who deals with fundamentalism all the time. He interrupted the final blessing to have us extend to others this…

In regards to the Assumption of Mary into heaven…Christ is the head of our Church…Therefore we honor His mother. And as Mary gave Christ His body and blood, and we are now Christ’s body…Mystical Body…Mary is now our mother.

How blessed Catholic and Orthodox women are who have Marya as our companion…the New Eve…she will take us closer and faster to Jesus…because she and He were one…

Because true Catholicism, through the celibate clergy, religious and virgins, shows the final victory of the spirit over flesh…total renunciation of self for Jesus…you keep going…you are going in the right way…Mary wants to be your companion…ask Mary in union with the Holy Spirit…Who is the one who makes the Pope infallible not the man himself…will show you many things.

We have the communion of saints…heaven sees us with a thousand eyes…the spiritual reality of this world is infinitely greater than the finite world we see through faith. There is a new world of faith awaiting you…I have been praying for you…

The Church does not know if Mary suffered death or if she died and then was taken by Our Lord to be with Him in heaven. We just know she was assumed body and soul into heaven because she did not sin.

But Revelations and aspects of the Gospels teach us that some day we will have glorified bodies after we are purified—either by accepting all the crosses the Lord gives us every day and fulfilling His will in Christ’s love…or further purgation in the next…when we have no more will to sin, like Mary, then, we took in God’s time will also share in the effects of the Assumption.

I LOVE YOU!!!
Kathleen
Kathleen,

My experience during the celebration of the Feast of the Virgin Mary was very surprising. I’ve been so hesitant about interaction with or invocation of the departed saints and the Blessed Virgin Mary. All I can say, is that something changed during that Feast and Eucharist. The Presence of the Holy Spirit was strong, and I felt such a peace. I came away with a different feeling about the Blessed Virgin Mary. It’s a start, Kathleen.
🙂
Anna
 
Anna, Praise be God…I have been praying for you and sensing a burden of prayer for you for several months and could have predicted your experience for you…but you have to go on your own to learn…

How blessed it is to have the communion of saints praying for us…

What you are experiencing is where we keep our focus…

the problem comes in how we implement contemporary theologies…The work through the humanity of the Church people is to find the universal, apostolic, and sacred place each one of us is uniquely called to with our own particular charisms in the Mystical Body of Christ…and to keep the focus there…it is so easy to look at movements in the Church, however valid and needed, but then get off focus, start focusing on people a little too much, and then we start sliding down the slippery slope…

I am hoping I can work on RCIA this year…even if only a sponsor and witness to the meetings they have each week…

I came to Mary in Africa…then went through a new phase as a stay at home mother…when the kids were napping is when I got into reading deeper materials…and they brought me to Mary in an even greater way.

God bless you very much…Please keep me posted!!!
Kathleen
 
No Anna, you can’t give up saying it’s a tough subject. If our purpose is to know Him, love Him and serve Him, then He will lead us to understand and counter the strategies of the Enemy which include
  • Causing schisms among humans thro all permutations and combinations of mehods
  • Using evil humans to distort scriptures and deceive humans enmasse to believe his evil agenda to be God’s agenda
  • Creating perverted deceptive substitutes to replace graces and gifts with disgraces and evil powers
  • Perverting Faith into fanaticism
  • Blinding people to to the extent of murdering the Messiah and then thro deceit sustain their Faith in corrupted scriptures and hopleless Hope in the coming of the Messiah and thus ensure they remain in darkness
Recall what our Lord foretold “People who murder will believe that they are serving God in doing so”. Did it not happen during OT times (murder of prophets from Abel to Zechariah)? Was not our Lord also a similiar victim? Is it not happening now?
Pitcharan,

I appreciate your comments, but it’s not that I’m just giving up by saying, “I can’t say that I understand the violence depicted in the O.T. Perhaps men attributed things to God that were not from Him. Perhaps God did order such destruction. I don’t know. It’s a tough subject. . . . .”

I’m just admitting that, at this point, I don’t know how to interpret the violence depicted in the O.T. That doesn’t mean I’m not continuing to study and seek answers. It is a tough subject.

Anna
 
As you know, Anna, last week was the first week Kate and I went back to the Catholic Church. Will we stay or will we go (sounds like a punk song!)…hard telling. We really felt a sadness missing our Anglican parish already. But we did enjoy the honor given to Mary and the music, especially Ave Maria, was lovely. But I’m still not much of a ‘saint-invoker’ always just taking my needs and prayers to the feet of Christ Himself. I’m not opposed to it but that’s just my style. I’m glad you had a good encounter at that service. I guess it shows that there’s devotion to Mary outside of Roman Catholic parishes…
Kathleen,

My experience during the celebration of the Feast of the Virgin Mary was very surprising. I’ve been so hesitant about interaction with or invocation of the departed saints and the Blessed Virgin Mary. All I can say, is that something changed during that Feast and Eucharist. The Presence of the Holy Spirit was strong, and I felt such a peace. I came away with a different feeling about the Blessed Virgin Mary. It’s a start, Kathleen.
🙂
Anna
 
Anna, Praise be God…I have been praying for you and sensing a burden of prayer for you for several months and could have predicted your experience for you…but you have to go on your own to learn…

How blessed it is to have the communion of saints praying for us…

What you are experiencing is where we keep our focus…

the problem comes in how we implement contemporary theologies…The work through the humanity of the Church people is to find the universal, apostolic, and sacred place each one of us is uniquely called to with our own particular charisms in the Mystical Body of Christ…and to keep the focus there…it is so easy to look at movements in the Church, however valid and needed, but then get off focus, start focusing on people a little too much, and then we start sliding down the slippery slope…

I am hoping I can work on RCIA this year…even if only a sponsor and witness to the meetings they have each week…

I came to Mary in Africa…then went through a new phase as a stay at home mother…when the kids were napping is when I got into reading deeper materials…and they brought me to Mary in an even greater way.

God bless you very much…Please keep me posted!!!
Kathleen
Kathleen,

Thank you for the prayers.

I posted on Byzantine Wolf’s blog today, regarding people confusing emotional experiences with spiritual experiences. What I find so interesting about the Feast of Mary, is the peace that I experienced. This was a quiet, deep, and profound peace that I can’t quite explain. Guess words are not always sufficient.

I’ll keep you posted,
Anna
 
A few responses
Code:
 1.Obviously, I spoke of the 'devil' (in quotes) with tongue-in-cheek. I believe in the existence of evil, certainly, but tend to dismiss the usual depictions of Satan.*What about the "depictions" that are unusual?  What about temptation which can come from sources which may appear to be good?*

  2. No, I reject the idea of a chosen people, apart from the fact that we are all chosen in a sense. Jesus certainly lifted up the Samaritans in the Gospels and they were despised as 'unclean' by the ancient Hebrews. My view of God is that the Lord is just, and justice and a chosen people don't coexist easily. Besides, with maybe 100 million or more gallaxies out there I often wonder if God focuses so much attention upon this one tiny planet and spotlights this one small group.  Maybe. Just not sure. This concept of a chosen people, by the way, is a major reason we're in the mess today in the Middle East. I have great sympathy for the Jewish people, who were persecuted for centuries by Christians and others, but the idea that God is heavy into apportioning real estate always struck me as a primitive notion. I have been on pilgrimage to the Holy Land four times and every time returned with more sympathy for the Palestinians. Had we been compassionate and evenhanded, both genuinely pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian over the years, we might have avoided the mess, even including 9-11. Frankly, I believe the Pope agrees with me, but that is conjecture on my part.* I challenge you to read the Qu'ran - get yourself 2 different copies - make sure one is considered "faithful" to the Arabic and the other "for Western consumption - you will see the differences you will be amazed.  Also there is a book by David G Dalin and John F Rothmann "Icon of Evil".  Get the book and read.  Then come and tell us what you think.
Cinette:) *

Code:
  God bless everybody who seeks to live by the teachings of Christ, which - as he said - were basically love him and one another.
 
As you know, Anna, last week was the first week Kate and I went back to the Catholic Church. Will we stay or will we go (sounds like a punk song!)…hard telling. We really felt a sadness missing our Anglican parish already. But we did enjoy the honor given to Mary and the music, especially Ave Maria, was lovely. But I’m still not much of a ‘saint-invoker’ always just taking my needs and prayers to the feet of Christ Himself. I’m not opposed to it but that’s just my style. I’m glad you had a good encounter at that service. I guess it shows that there’s devotion to Mary outside of Roman Catholic parishes…
Hey gurney,

Guess all of us “night owls” are out. 😉

See what I just posted to Kathleen. I was really taken by surprise during this Feast of Mary. I have said in the past that it’s fine if saints want to intercede on my account, but I don’t feel comfortable invoking the departed.

Still, I came away from that Feast with a sense that the Blessed Virgin Mary is there watching over me. I didn’t expect this. It came so quietly into my spirit. Oddly, the Priest did not emphasize Mary’s intercession during the sermon. At the very end, he said, “Hail Mary, full of grace, please pray for us.”

Anna
 
As you know, Anna, last week was the first week Kate and I went back to the Catholic Church. Will we stay or will we go (sounds like a punk song!)…hard telling. We really felt a sadness missing our Anglican parish already. But we did enjoy the honor given to Mary and the music, especially Ave Maria, was lovely. But I’m still not much of a ‘saint-invoker’ always just taking my needs and prayers to the feet of Christ Himself. I’m not opposed to it but that’s just my style. I’m glad you had a good encounter at that service. I guess it shows that there’s devotion to Mary outside of Roman Catholic parishes…
Gurney,

Are you and I ever going to figure this out? I think we are setting a record or something. 😃

Anna
 
Yes, Anna I know what you are experiencing…it is for real…and I was thinking that it is also in this place the Holy Spirit works with the Holy Father…in working experience with the universal spirit of faith among the bishops of the world…He is not acting alone but after looking at a particular issue for some time…may be even before his pontificate…involving the broadness, depth and universality of Catholics everywhere in different times…

Like I said it took the church 2,000 years to make a definitive statement that women are not called to priestly ordination.

Anyway, Mary is speaking to you in this experience…she is sharing something of God with you…she is showing you her proximity to God, To Christ and to all of us through the Holy Spirit…

This also comes in reception of the Eucharist when one is finally in acceptance…and you then can see that there is truth that the successive line of the Catholic church has never been broken…the oneness…it is an experience that transcends any talk here.
It is the Holy Spirit, not men, who has kept the apostolic line united inspite of the sins of the Church…

John Paul II said the chaff will always be with the wheat…it is a test for us in side and for those looking at the Church and searching…

I am thankful you are experiencing what you are having…Much, much good…God bless you tonight…in prayer and in …

LOVE
Kathleen
 
Yes, Anna I know what you are experiencing…it is for real…and I was thinking that it is also in this place the Holy Spirit works with the Holy Father…in working experience with the universal spirit of faith among the bishops of the world…He is not acting alone but after looking at a particular issue for some time…may be even before his pontificate…involving the broadness, depth and universality of Catholics everywhere in different times…

Like I said it took the church 2,000 years to make a definitive statement that women are not called to priestly ordination.

Anyway, Mary is speaking to you in this experience…she is sharing something of God with you…she is showing you her proximity to God, To Christ and to all of us through the Holy Spirit…

This also comes in reception of the Eucharist when one is finally in acceptance…and you then can see that there is truth that the successive line of the Catholic church has never been broken…the oneness…it is an experience that transcends any talk here.
It is the Holy Spirit, not men, who has kept the apostolic line united inspite of the sins of the Church…

John Paul II said the chaff will always be with the wheat…it is a test for us in side and for those looking at the Church and searching…

I am thankful you are experiencing what you are having…Much, much good…God bless you tonight…in prayer and in …

LOVE
Kathleen
Thank you for giving me your deep thoughts.

I pray God’s peace and blessings upon you, Kathleen.
Anna
 
A few responses
Code:
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  3. I'm not totally convinced that the Hebrew people ever were slaves in Egypt. Scholars haven't found a single piece of evidence that they were there. Read Theophile Meek's book *Hebrew Origins.* I certainly have some doubts that Moses turned his rod into a snake, and I can't imagine God sending an angel to murder the firstborn of every Egyptian family. Etc. Most of the plagues, by the way, can be seen as exaggerated examples of natural occurrences in Egypt, 

 4. Speaking of dualism, I find that in some aspects of Christianity. Isn't that what God vs. Satan is all about? Our Jehovah Witness friends go so far as to see the earth contolled by the devil. Didn't he take Jesus on to a high mountain and promise to give him all the kingdoms of the world if Christ would worship him? Now, if he could give all the kingdoms he must reign over all the kingdoms. Thus JWs say, every nation is under Satanic control, which is why they refuse to salute the flag, vote, and more. Now I reject JW teaching, of course, but this particular teaching of theirs shows how easy it is to quote scripture to justify all manner of belief.

 5. The tendency on CAF is to accuse skeptics like me of egotism, placing our own opinions above those of the church, etc. Not entirely. I respect most faiths because none of us has the full truth. I join other seekers and pilgrims. What I do maintain is that we should have the freedom to seek (and find) spiritual truth rather than accept what is given us by any religion. Certain forms of Christianity (traditional Catholicism and fundamentalist Protestantism, etc) and certainly Islam insist that we accept their teachings, period. I feel the right and even responsibility to weigh things and decide what seems to me reasonable and what I can't believe. Some will dismiss this as egotism; others will accept it as my choice. As for fearing God's retribution for my 'disbelief', I don't fret for a moment about that. God certainly is fair and my guess is that he respects those who use their God-given brain as long as we follow the essential principles: love him and one another.

 6, Twice I spent time in a Trappist monastery in Quebec (Oka). I have tried to be well-read in Catholicism as in other faiths. I have read most of the Church Fathers and find Origen my favorite - a wicked heretic, I understand. Early on he realized that much in the Gospels was to be taken symbolically and not literally. My problem with the Church Fathers is that despite incisive and brilliant minds they didn't have the benefit of modern telescopes and microscopes and their writings are filled with misinformation that was widely believed at that time. If I could believe all that Catholicism requires, I would be a good Catholic, as I greatly admire its work among the poor, through its hospitals, and its schools around the world. But one has to be honest with oneself. Polls seem to suggest that half or so of Catholics in the US share my doubts about major doctrines. So, I certainly don't feel isolated or a pioneer of any sort. Many have traveled this route before.

  7. For those of you who believe that God ordered Joshua to murder the inhabitants of Jericho and Ai and that he commanded Saul to murder every remaining Amalekite, I assume you believe also that the ends justify the means. I have some difficulty with this, and especially where God is concerned. How many abortions, for example, have been justified based on that concept? Millions. 

  God bless everybody who seeks to live by the teachings of Christ, which - as he said - were basically love him and one another.
*I answered the first two items of your post and had to run off and now that I have read the rest I realise that what you lack is belief in Jesus, Trust and Faith (you might have a little of all three since you call yourself a Christian. Do you believe anything you do not understand? You should also seek to be “poor in spirit” - that, to me, is essential. Oh I have no doubt that you are intelligent and have sought information about the Church and Church History. You have been to the Holy Land but your mindset and heart … you rely heavily on your own understanding.

I am not qualified perhaps nor sufficiently well-read to give you all the answers but it did strike me that you yourself would be able to find the answers if you were “poor in Spirit”

God bless you
Cinette *
 
I just got back …working since 8 pm last night to tonight…am seeing responses…

Anna, what you shared with me deeply moves me. You are experiencing now the sacred in the Catholic Church…Mary is Christ’s gift to the Catholics.NO! NO! - Mary is Christ’s gift to MANKIND - YES!!!

I went to the Dominican parish last night. We had a visiting priest from Savanna, Georgia who deals with fundamentalism all the time. He interrupted the final blessing to have us extend to others this…

In regards to the Assumption of Mary into heaven…Christ is the head of our Church…Therefore we honor His mother. And as Mary gave Christ His body and blood, and we are now Christ’s body…Mystical Body…Mary is now our mother.

How blessed Catholic and Orthodox women are who have Marya as our companion…the New Eve…she will take us closer and faster to Jesus…because she and He were one…

Because true Catholicism, through the celibate clergy, religious and virgins, shows the final victory of the spirit over flesh…total renunciation of self for Jesus…*Oh yes!!!*you keep going…you are going in the right way…Mary wants to be your companion…ask Mary in union with the Holy Spirit…Who is the one who makes the Pope infallible not the man himself…will show you many things.

We have the communion of saints…heaven sees us with a thousand eyes…the spiritual reality of this world is infinitely greater than the finite world we see through faith. There is a new world of faith awaiting you…I have been praying for you…

The Church does not know if Mary suffered death or if she died and then was taken by Our Lord to be with Him in heaven. We just know she was assumed body and soul into heaven because she did not sin.This is easy to believe - it even makes sense!

But Revelations and aspects of the Gospels teach us that some day we will have glorified bodies after we are purified—either by accepting all the crosses the Lord gives us every day and fulfilling His will in Christ’s love…or further purgation in the next…when we have no more will to sin, like Mary, then, we took in God’s time will also share in the effects of the Assumption.

I LOVE YOU!!!
Kathleen
👍
 
It is erroneous to describe the evil effects of sin as God’s wrath. At the same time we must appreciate the fact the the Bible is also a record of salvation history, that charts the salvific process and the gradual divinisation of humans. The dim light becomes fully bright light in Jesus, who clearly explained that horrible events like (i)18 people being crushed under the falling tower of Siloam and (ii) His portrayal of the end times, were all signs to understand the horrible effects of human sinfulness. That they were described as God’s wrath in the OT, only indicates the level of human understanding then.I believe this - I think that we do not experience God’s wrath in the NT - we have free will and it is our actions that will result in whatever happens to us. I am not saying that sometimes we have terrible trials but that is not God’s wrath. God is loving and merciful. I experienced great trials and God did not answer in the way I wanted - his response was better! So it is not difficult for me to accept this.

Now coming to OT passages that show God commanding humans to destroy fellow humans including women and children, it is spiritually unwise to treat every every single word in the Bible as if exactly revealed by God. NO. The Bible does contain God’s Word which has to be mined out with the help of the HS. It is similar to mining and extracting Diamond, Gold or Silver. Precious things are invariably mixed and never to be found in free and pure form and God’s Word is the most precious of all. The Bible includes many purely humanistic expressions of those who recorded their thoughts and inspirations. Take for example these verses: The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” (Gen 6:5-7).Its like baking a cake - God put in too much baking powder!! So he changed the recipe (covenant) and gave us FREE WILL - he gave us the Church and instructions for our lives and then he sent us the Holy Spirit (our Operating System) to guide and strengthen us. All we have to do is…YIELD! Can we interpret these verses and say that God felt that He had made a mistake in creating humans? NO, certainly not. These were the words that came to mind for the inspired human who was able to guage God’s pain at mankind’s fall. They were humanistic expressions used to describe a divine understandingYour explanation is concise and so correct. Thank you!
God bless you
Cinette:)
 
Mary is Christ’s gift to the Catholics. NO! NO! - Mary is Christ’s gift to MANKIND - YES!!! 👍
Here, in my home state Protestants, Hindus and Muslims throng the Catholic Churches enmasse for all Marian feasts. The crowds are unmanageable and the state administration goes all out to make the best arrangements because of the popularity of the devotion. Once I saw a Hindu police officer come on stage and sing specially composed songs (different from our regular ones) in praise of Mother Mary.
 
I’ve heard of Jews for Jesus but Hindus for Mary!? That’s a new one! 😛
Here, in my home state Protestants, Hindus and Muslims throng the Catholic Churches enmasse for all Marian feasts. The crowds are unmanageable and the state administration goes all out to make the best arrangements because of the popularity of the devotion. Once I saw a Hindu police officer come on stage and sing specially composed songs (different from our regular ones) in praise of Mother Mary.
 
A few more responses
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Roy5:
Code:
The tendency on CAF is to accuse skeptics like me of egotism, placing our own opinions above those of the church, etc.
And that would be a fair assesment of reality. It IS egotism. When you say that what you believe is true as opposed to the Church that Christ has founded on earth then it is very clearly egotistical, for you are saying that you know more than the doctors, saints and Church Fathers of the last 2000 years.
Not entirely. I respect most faiths because none of us has the full truth. I join other seekers and pilgrims.
Respecting other faiths still mean you are egotistical. You are just being tolerant about what others believe. Otherwise, you would believe what others believe.
What I do maintain is that we should have the freedom to seek (and find) spiritual truth rather than accept what is given us by any religion.
And no one is being stopped from seeking truth.
But it would be delusional to conclude that by oneself one can find truth for truth was promised by Christ only to His Church.
Certain forms of Christianity (traditional Catholicism and fundamentalist Protestantism, etc) and certainly Islam insist that we accept their teachings, period.
Downright wrong. The Catholic Church says this is what is true based on such and such proof. Study this and you will know that it is true.
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  The Church does not merely say don’t do this, do that. The Church also says why. And it is a very intelligent and convincing why.

  But  of course, for that humility is required. For this, one must pray for.
I feel the right and even responsibility to weigh things and decide what seems to me reasonable and what I can’t believe.
And what would be your criteria for what is reasonable?
Some will dismiss this as egotism; others will accept it as my choice.
Unless you can provide a good rational criteria for your choices, then it is egotism.
As for fearing God’s retribution for my ‘disbelief’, I don’t fret for a moment about that. God certainly is fair and my guess is that he respects those who use their God-given brain as long as we follow the essential principles: love him and one another.
So long as this is done in humility. One must dethrone the I/Me/Myself Pope before one can sincerely affirm the above statement.
6, Twice I spent time in a Trappist monastery in Quebec (Oka). I have tried to be well-read in Catholicism as in other faiths. I have read most of the Church Fathers and find Origen my favorite - a wicked heretic, I understand. Early on he realized that much in the Gospels was to be taken symbolically and not literally.
Not quite. I think what He did was to give an allegorical reading.
My problem with the Church Fathers is that despite incisive and brilliant minds they didn’t have the benefit of modern telescopes and microscopes and their writings are filled with misinformation that was widely believed at that time.
And what would be this misinformation that was widely believed at that time?
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  Also, you are betraying your atheistic root. To pin the unreasonableness of a proposition on the absence of  data derived from “telescopes, microscopes” (i.e. science) means that for you what is not scientifically verifiable must therefore be questionable, which reduces what is knowable to physical reality.
 
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