How do you know you're right?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BlueShadow123
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Now that’s moving the goal posts with a vengeance–AND setting up quite a false dichotomy. Nobody here is claiming that the Catholic Church is 'bad, evil, or morally repugnant." One can be utterly convinced that one has the Truth in one’s own faith–without claiming that all those who disagree with you are…“bad, evil, or morally repugnant.”
But my point is…. That the Catholic Church does teaches things on faith and morals that are not specifically in the bible. Further if a person is going to make the statement “But there are things the Catholic Church teaches that are not in the bible” then to me that leaves the impression that the Catholic Church is wrong and that somehow these teachings are somehow inferior to the “faith and morality” that Christ would want us to live.

Granted that the statement “bad, evil, or morally repugnant” is strong language and on my part was intentional because far too many times when someone says “But there are things the Catholic Church teaches that are not in the bible” it is a negative connotation. I am sure you have seen this yourself in other treads. And since BlueShadow is a bible only believer what am I to conclude when he or she makes a statement like this. It’s not moving goal posts, just illustrating that there is more to the Christian faith than just the Bible. And this “more” is also good and moral. Peace be with you.
 
My original question has stemmed into more points that i thought it would…
  1. None of you really answered my real question because its unanswerable.
BlueShadow, your points are valid; religious beliefs are not based upon scientific evidence. Most of us are quite comfortable with that.

So I need to ask you–what is it that you are looking for?
 
It’s called faith for a reason. There is always the what if?

But if you keep chasing what ifs you go in circles.
 
It’s called faith for a reason. There is always the what if?

But if you keep chasing what ifs you go in circles.
Part of what many people confuse is “faith” and “belief”…“faith” is not “believing things that cannot be proven” or “believing doctrines and dogmas of any respsective religious group.”

Faith is ordering one’s life in such a way that there is a “confidence” that “life will hold you up”…“Something greater than oneself is “out there”.” Faith is “doing what is right even though there seems to be no reason for it.” Faith is living in confidence that we will “get through” some how.

How one orders their life TOWARD wholeness is faith. Faith is more than “belief” or “doctine”.

My faith is how I live my life and how I relate to others for the benefit of our collective humanity. I have found, for me, Quakerism is the best expression of the Christian faith…it makes sense in this world that so often…does not.
 
I’m not searching for anything, I am a believer in god, but I admit that this might not be the ‘right’ religion. Islam might be right, the jews might be right. who knows. And you mention miracles. You cant prove that. You weren’t there to see it. Just because somebody else claims to see it, doesn’t mean its true. It wouldn’t hold up in today because its scientifically impossible. you have no proof whatsoever of it. Its based on faith. Faith, and only faith. And as a believer, I admit that it is only based on faith. I can’t prove god is real, and i certainly can’t prove any of the miracles in the bible are true.
I have a response to this post of yours, but before I post it, I am wondering what you are thinking about faith and proof, so I am hoping you will answer these questions.

Why do you believe that faith is not sufficient grounds on which to believe?

What, in your opinion, constitutes “proof”?
 
Many religious people say “I know im right” when talking about their religion. Well how do you know for sure you’re right? There are thousands of other religions out there. How do you know YOURS is the 100% right one? You don’t. You can’t.
How do you know that YOUR beliefs are 100% right?
 
How do you know that YOUR beliefs are 100% right?
I think…that’s the problem. He doesn’t. He’s doing some searching.

…and being a lot more honest about it that some, when it comes right down to it.
 
Good you guys get what I’m saying then.

So, even though you’re a believer in god, like me, you must be able to admit that you could possibly be wrong, and that, your belief is based on faith. But like one of the other posters said, that is not a problem as long as it is not causing harm to others. Unfortunately, sometimes people do harm others in the name of ‘religion’, but thats a whole other topic.
 
You ask the question “How do you know you’re right?”, and some have tried to answer. I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.

Much of the confusion revolves around the use of words like “right”, “truth”, and “correct”. We’re missing some words that are very important - words like “factual”, “historical”, and “reasonable”.

Judaism is a historical religion. There are historical references to important Jewish figures recorded by other, non-Jewish sources (like Saul, David, Solomon, and Joseph). So we can say that Judaism is historical, and that much of the writings of its important figures that refer to events independently recorded elsewhere are factual.

Christianity is a historical religion. There are records of Jesus and the Apostles in Roman archives and in histories of other nations around the Middle East. We find references in the New Testament to historical events, so we know that Biblical references to these events are factual.

Islam’s a problem, as is Mormonism. Both had a single individual who wrote out their holy book, by themselves, as a matter of private revelation. (The Bible, by contrast, was a collection of writings by numerous authors over centuries.)

The Koran is a dictation from On High, from an eternal, unchanging Allah, but it contradicts itself in numerous places. Muslims say that whatever Mohammed wrote later is considered to be correct. So somewhere along the line someone said, “I know what I said then; listen to what I’m saying now!” :eek:

Although Islam and its leaders are historically known, the Koran does not contain much in the way of historical events; thus, we have trouble aligning the Koran with independent accounts, which would make it more factual.🤷

Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from a stack of golden plates he got from the angel Moroni. The Book of Mormon contains predictions of great events to come. The last event it predicted was the American Civil War, which ended shortly before the Book of Mormon was published. :confused: In addition to a lack of correlatable historical information, the history of the Book of Mormon militates against reason.

The Bible contains historical events and persons, so we can align it with objective history. It teaches certain morals and philosophies that conform to reason. The Bible is historical, factual, and reasonable.

Consider the New Testament. It’s the same in the King James Version as it is in the Douay-Rheims version (an older version used for centuries in the Catholic Church). The Mormons use this same New Testament; so do the Episcopalians, the Methodists, the Adventists, the Baptists, and scores of other churches.

Who decided which books were to be included in the New Testament? The Catholic Church. If you accept the 24 books in the New Testament as the complete canon of the New Testament, then you accept the authority of the Catholic Church to say what should be in that canon - because the Catholic Church defined the canon.

You mention that the Catholic Church teaches things that are not in the Bible, and intimate that you would not accept any doctrine that was not explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Do you accept the doctrine of the Trinity? If you do, you accept a Catholic doctrine that is not explicitly in the Bible. It can be deduced logically from Scripture, but it’s not explicitly there - it’s implied.

Of course, it begs the question, “If so many non-Catholic churches accept the Catholic canon of the New Testament, why don’t they accept the Catholic canon of the Old Testament?” I can’t answer that; it seems King James’ little band of editors chose to listen to pre-Diasporan Jews instead.🤷

So let’s get back to the original point: asking the right questions. I suggest the following:

“Is your religion historical? Are there independent historical accounts of important figures in your religion’s history? Does your holy book (if extant) contain references to events in history that are indepentently corroborated?” Non-historical religions are automatically suspect. Be cautious about prophecy.

“Are the teachings within your holy book consistent throughout the entire text? If there are contradictions, how do you reconcile them?” Be wary of religions that don’t have consistent scriptures or reasonable explanations for apparent contradictions.

“What is the historical or scriptural source of your church’s authority?” Authority should be clearly established in both history and scripture.

“Is your religion exoteric (meaning that all its teachings are publicly available) or esoteric (meaning that some teachings are only available to adherents and not taught to outsiders)?” Esoteric religions imply that you have to drink the Kool-Aid first.

Once you receive answers that satisfy you, it’s time to start looking into what that religion teaches in an in-depth fashion. I suggest you start with a polite inquiry into the Catholic faith by asking your questions of the many apologists on this forum.

Welcome to the Forum!🙂
 
I think…that’s the problem. He doesn’t. He’s doing some searching.

…and being a lot more honest about it that some, when it comes right down to it.
I’m not a male. I don’t know why so many members seem to think that all because of my username. Is that a guy-ish username or something? 🤷

Also too, I’m not searching for anything. I’m already a strong believer in christ. I just know that its based only on faith.
 
Please pardon the off topic aside, here—but since rcwhiteh has made some statements, I think it would be a good idea to correct mistatements of fact. Shoot, he might even be glad to get them…

Noting, please, that this has absolutely nothing at all to do with the topic of the thread, here goes.
Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from a stack of golden plates he got from the angel Moroni. The Book of Mormon contains predictions of great events to come. The last event it predicted was the American Civil War, which ended shortly before the Book of Mormon was published. :confused: In addition to a lack of correlatable historical information, the history of the Book of Mormon militates against reason.
The American Civil War ended in 1829? News to me–and to every historian out there. The Civil War began in 1861–and the Book of Mormon had been in publication for over thirty years. The Mormons had been kicked out of two states and the entire nation by that time, and were firmly settled in the Salt Lake Valley at the time of the Civil War. Sorry.

…speaking, of course, purely from provable historical fact—and in personal possession of the third ediction–a copy of the Book of Mormon with a publication date of 1840, published in Nauvoo. (I have to give that one up, though–my dad wants to donate it to a museum in SLC).
 
Out of the thousands of religions in the world, how do you know yours is right? I’m asking every individual that read this; how do you know you’re right on this?

Just a question. (:
I don’t. If I was certain I was right, I might do something stupid, like fly a plane into a building. Your understanding of God may be more accurate than mine. But I choose to follow my understanding. That is what faith is, in my opinion. Believing what you believe despite doubt.
 
I don’t. If I was certain I was right, I might do something stupid, like fly a plane into a building. Your understanding of God may be more accurate than mine. But I choose to follow my understanding. That is what faith is, in my opinion. Believing what you believe despite doubt.
I agree…though I would change that last sentence to read “Acting upon your beliefs despite doubt.”
 
I’m not searching for anything, I am a believer in god, but I admit that this might not be the ‘right’ religion. Islam might be right, the jews might be right. who knows. And you mention miracles. You cant prove that. You weren’t there to see it. Just because somebody else claims to see it, doesn’t mean its true. It wouldn’t hold up in today because its scientifically impossible. you have no proof whatsoever of it. Its based on faith. Faith, and only faith. And as a believer, I admit that it is only based on faith. I can’t prove god is real, and i certainly can’t prove any of the miracles in the bible are true.
When you say Miracles.

There are Public Miracles of Fatima and Zeitoun which were witness by 70 thousand and 250,000. respectfully. With confirmed MIracles of the Sun and Healing. I’d beg to differ on this statement.

Who has ever played with the Sun as a basketball aside from God? And it was said what day and time it would happen through prophecy by the Blessed Mother.

A Public Miracle is very different than Private.
 
When you say Miracles.

There are Public Miracles of Fatima and Zeitoun which were witness by 70 thousand and 250,000. respectfully. With confirmed MIracles of the Sun and Healing. I’d beg to differ on this statement.

Who has ever played with the Sun as a basketball aside from God? And it was said what day and time it would happen through prophecy by the Blessed Mother.

A Public Miracle is very different than Private.
Wouldn’t be so sure of that. To a non-believer, they wouldn’t call it a miracle. They would call it luck. If miracles were real, I know plenty of people who need them.

You should check out Richard Dawkins “The god Delusion”. He is a scientist from the university of Oxford, and he is spot on about a lot of religious things. I can definitely see from his side of the spectrum. I can see from both, and the war between religion isn’t ever going to change, because it deals with something you can’t disprove or deny that people have. Long story.
 
I don’t. If I was certain I was right, I might do something stupid, like fly a plane into a building. Your understanding of God may be more accurate than mine. But I choose to follow my understanding. That is what faith is, in my opinion. Believing what you believe despite doubt.
Well even though you’re not a christian, you are chosen by the christian god. 👍 I’m assuming you’re jewish because thats what you put as your religion.
 
Out of the thousands of religions in the world, how do you know yours is right? I’m asking every individual that read this; how do you know you’re right on this?

Just a question. (:
**I’m Catholic and after attending classes, I knew I belonged in the Catholic Church. I believed what they believe and I wanted to be in communion with God by being Catholic. I truly believe the Holy Spirit speaks but we have to be ready to listen and when we do, it leads to the Roman Catholic Church.

stormy**
 
Wouldn’t be so sure of that. To a non-believer, they wouldn’t call it a miracle. They would call it luck. If miracles were real, I know plenty of people who need them.

You should check out Richard Dawkins “The god Delusion”. He is a scientist from the university of Oxford, and he is spot on about a lot of religious things. I can definitely see from his side of the spectrum. I can see from both, and the war between religion isn’t ever going to change, because it deals with something you can’t disprove or deny that people have. Long story.
I’m familiar with him, hard core atheist

There were Thousands of non believers at those two events though, they called it, God and the Blessed Mother. Muslim PHDs confirmed the healings. All the info is out here. Just have to read it. Belief is up to you. Pretty convincing evidence though IMHO

Dawkins is an atheist who believes in nothing. Research the events and reach your own conclusion, your smart enough to decide for yourself. Why take the word of this man?

That would be no different than taking my word. Don’t listen to anyones converstion attempt. Read, read and read some more. The truth is out here in this day and age. But you can believe this, the history of man, is the war of good and evil. definaty come to that truth.

The Bible was written my Christians 2000 years ago. All scholars, then reviewed by scholars as each generation passed. Starting with Christs Disciple the Apostle Peter. Pretty significant eveidence

All life is, is a period granted by God with free will given to either chose God or satan. Thats all it comes down to. And when you follow a man like Dawkins by default you chose satan. And ignorance isn’t an excuse since Christ is known world wide. We all believe we are so important and of such significance. Just tiny little grains of sand really, with our worst enemy being “self”. Image, ego, attitude, facade, an every other wonderful human trait. All of which we can rise above.

Nobody denies the Resurrection of Christ.

Listen if Christ wasn’t true. Why didn’t the people simply scream HERES THE BODY. Because there was no body my friend. God raised the body. Thats THE significant event of the New Testament. Pilot and his wife knew he was God. The Roman guards who killed and speared him realized he was God after they killed him.

Take your time and read bro. Its all out here.

Peace, GT
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top