How do you know

[Hadith]

I see that many discussions have broken down into angry discussion. Let me use new tactic.

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God? Because he said so is about as valid as J. Smith’s saying he was told to become Mormon.

So I ask for you to explain to me how I can know this Jesus was the Son of God.

 

[majick275]

One of the ways is by studying sacred scripture and seeing the literal fulfillment of prophecy. This is especialy effective when coupled with the Holy Spirit through prayer. (and sometimes fasting) It is as Jesus said to Peter in Matthew 16:17

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

I would also point out that Jesus IS God. Co-Equal and consubstantial with the Father and Holy Spirit. There is only one God. One of the Great mysteries of faith is that God came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ. God and man. He truly is Father AND Son.

At some point of course I think we have to be pragmatic enough to realize the role of faith. to your specific example there are at least 4 million people who are absolutely convinced that Joseph Smith Jr. was a true prophet and that the Book of Mormon is the true restored gospel. (there are another 8 million plus “mormons” of record who may also believe this…and many offshhots of the LDS church who also believe this much to be true, but I digress) I would posit that there is little difference between Joseph Smith Jr. and Mohammed.

The fact that a number of people are absolutely convinced that something is true only makes it popular NOT gospel.

Christ is risen and he will come again. this has always been prophesied and by the power of God we know it to be true. If you choose to reject his message and follow after false teachings by false prophets then you will suffer his wrath. A lot of folks feel confident as they reject the truth but in the end :

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Phillipians 2:10-11

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Hadith:

I see that many discussions have broken down into angry discussion. Let me use new tactic.

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God? Because he said so is about as valid as J. Smith’s saying he was told to become Mormon.

So I ask for you to explain to me how I can know this Jesus was the Son of God.

Your judge too early. You have been only for 2 weeks here. There is no angry discussion. If we do that, moderator has banned us.

 

[Myangel]

majick275:

One of the ways is by studying sacred scripture and seeing the literal fulfillment of prophecy. This is especialy effective when coupled with the Holy Spirit through prayer. (and sometimes fasting) It is as Jesus said to Peter in Matthew 16:17

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

I would also point out that Jesus IS God. Co-Equal and consubstantial with the Father and Holy Spirit. There is only one God. One of the Great mysteries of faith is that God came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ. God and man. He truly is Father AND Son.

At some point of course I think we have to be pragmatic enough to realize the role of faith. to your specific example there are at least 4 million people who are absolutely convinced that Joseph Smith Jr. was a true prophet and that the Book of Mormon is the true restored gospel. (there are another 8 million plus “mormons” of record who may also believe this…and many offshhots of the LDS church who also believe this much to be true, but I digress) I would posit that there is little difference between Joseph Smith Jr. and Mohammed.

The fact that a number of people are absolutely convinced that something is true only makes it popular NOT gospel.

Christ is risen and he will come again. this has always been prophesied and by the power of God we know it to be true. If you choose to reject his message and follow after false teachings by false prophets then you will suffer his wrath. A lot of folks feel confident as they reject the truth but in the end :

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Phillipians 2:10-11

Not to mention people who witnessed Jesus’ life!

 

[Hadith]

majick275:

One of the ways is by studying sacred scripture and seeing the literal fulfillment of prophecy. This is especialy effective when coupled with the Holy Spirit through prayer. (and sometimes fasting) It is as Jesus said to Peter in Matthew 16:17

Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

So you say you personally know only because you have prayed and have a feeling this to be true and because you read it in your scripture?

Nothing more convincing available to you?

That argument sounds like the mormon one to pray and have a happy feeling and for them to say their book is equal to New Testament.

Too much faith needed in your answer. This sounds like complaint against Islam needing faith to believe Muhammad was the Prophet.

You say fulfillment of scriptures. But if one does exactly what is written because one knows what is written is this not simply parlor trick?

Please, give more hardened proofs?
Peace

 

[exoflare]

What a double standard. (and what a surprise! )

A Muslim accusing us, of all people, of having a similar belief to Mormons… having no proof in our belief except the word of a single man who claimed to be merely a prophet while himself not working any miracles or fulfilling any previous prophecies… Mr. Pot paging Mr. Kettle…!

 

[Booklover]

Hadith:

I see that many discussions have broken down into angry discussion. Let me use new tactic.

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God? Because he said so is about as valid as J. Smith’s saying he was told to become Mormon.

So I ask for you to explain to me how I can know this Jesus was the Son of God.

How do you know that Mohammed was really a prophet? Because he said so?

Vickie

 

[discipleofJesus]

Hadith:

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God?

1. He claimed to be the Son of God
2. He proved to be the Son of God by raising from the dead
3. He performed mighty miracles
4. He was/is sinless
5. He fulfilled many prophecies of the Old Testament
6. He taught the most perfect, beautiful, moral teachings
7. The Holy Spirit convinces people that Jesus is the Son of God

 

[Mickey]

Just as children do not realize the sacrifices their parents and teachers make to bring them up and pass on to them the hard-earned experience of a lifetime, so generally men did not understand Christ - and even the rare exception only partly understood. Thus the Word of Christ which calls for a radical altering of our whole life came as a cruel wound. When Christ beheld our distress He suffered more than any of us. And He bore this cross all the years of His service in the world. Golgotha was only the last act, the culminating point, as it were, uniting the whole: the mental distress of an infamous death, the wild vindictive laughter of those to whom He had caused offence, the physical pain of being crucified, the grief of His Spirit because men had spurned the tidings of the Father’s love.
**Archimandrite Sophrony **

---

---

 

[patg]

Ok, I like this topic so I’ll jump in too,

1) He claimed to be the Son of God

Anyone can do that. Especially in those days when emporers were gods, pharoahs were gods…

And in actuality, he never claimed to be God except in a couple of places in John’s Gospel which is so radically different than the others that it hardly seems to be about the same person. Many scholars believe that it was written long after the others and is thus far less historical. It presents a highly developed Christology which was non-existant in the earlier writings.

1. He proved to be the Son of God by raising from the dead

If he rose from the dead, how does that prove “godness”? There are no “resurrection” stories in the bible - there are only death stories, empty tomb stories, and conflicting, inconsistent appearance stories. The resurrection is still a matter of faith, just as the belief that he was god is purely a matter of faith.

1. He performed mighty miracles

That only shows that he was a Jewish “holy man”. There were many documented holy men amoung the Jews who performed all types of similar miracles - are they all “gods”?

1. He was/is sinless

And just how would any of us determine that?

1. He fulfilled many prophecies of the Old Testament

That is a matter of considerable debate. For one thing, it is quite easy to construct a story about someone fulfilling prophecy when one has volumes of writings to draw from, is writing years after the person died, and is intent on proving a point about the person. An understanding of Jewish prophetic writing and Jewish use of midrash techniques quickly moves this discussion to a “matter of faith” also.

1. He taught the most perfect, beautiful, moral teachings

That’s pretty subjective… It is also not unique among teachers nor is it unique to Chrisianity. I’m sure the same can be said about the founder of every religion so it hardly qulifies as proof of godliness.

 

[discipleofJesus]

Hadith:

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God?

1. He claimed to be the Son of God
2. He proved to be the Son of God by rising from the dead
3. He performed mighty miracles
4. His actions and sayings reveal that He is the Son of God
5. He was/is sinless
6. He fulfilled many prophecies of the Old Testament
7. He taught the most perfect, beautiful, moral teachings
8. The Holy Spirit convinces people that Jesus is the Son of God

”Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 12:3

 

[eleusis]

Hadith:

So you say you personally know only because you have prayed and have a feeling this to be true and because you read it in your scripture?

Nothing more convincing available to you?

That argument sounds like the mormon one to pray and have a happy feeling and for them to say their book is equal to New Testament.

Too much faith needed in your answer. This sounds like complaint against Islam needing faith to believe Muhammad was the Prophet.

You say fulfillment of scriptures. But if one does exactly what is written because one knows what is written is this not simply parlor trick?

Please, give more hardened proofs?
Peace

This will take some effort on your part. You will have to read. But if you are willing then look this up.

The stories of the Magi following the star which signaled the birth of Jesus. This was a very supernatural event. It was even recorded by Chinese star gazers.

Historical recordings from that period. There are numerous stories of Greeks and Jews who recorded that Jesus existed and that he is known to have performed miracles. Its all stated matter of factly. No fantastic claims by his followers these were his enemies who recorded his miracles.

Read up on St. Ignatius of Antioch. He was the student and scribe who learned at the knee of St. John of the Gospel of John. St. John was present at Jesus time, saw his ministry and saw his death but more importantly saw his resurection. This man taught Ignatius what the faith was, go read what Ignatius says.

Then there is the evidence, again from extra-biblical sources which shows the religion exploded across the known world when hundreds of people saw a risen Jesus alive after the crucifixion. This cannot be faked. This is recorded historical fact.

None of this can be attributed to any Zionist conspiracy for they would not want to bolster faith in Jesus.

I hope this will help you find the Truth. Jesus said, “I am the way the truth and the life, none comes to the Father but through me”. You are here because He calls you in a quiet calm persistent voice. Why? Because He is merciful and wants everyone to enter heaven to be with him, even our Muslim brothers.

Peace.

 

[BillyT92679]

The reason I am Catholic is really because of reason generated by Faith.

It all comes from Faith in some kind of Deity. From an anthropological/sociological standpoint, every civilization has a creation story. Since cultures developed this capability to rationalize this concept independent of each other to me that indicates there has to be truthfulness to an Other. How did we get here, why did we get here? Randomness doesn’t make much sense, and not EVERYTHING can proven by science. So many things (bodies of Saints that are incorruptible, Eucaristic Miracles) that science tries to understand, but cannot.

So going with the idea that I believe in something Other, than why Monotheism? Because it makes the most sense… a plethora of Gods leads to the possibility of conflict, appeasement to one versus another, an oligarchic approach to Creation which seems disproven by the orderliness to Creation. It makes sense that One God created the Universe under a specific plan.

Then why the Abrahamic God? Studying a variety of faiths, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has an understanding of societal norms and ethics that is more plausible than any other, and this God is the most omnipresent, omnipotent, and powerful. A creation that is this complex must come from a God that this this powerful.

Then why Christianity? Because looking at the prefigurement of the Messiah in Judaism, Christ is clearly the One who is predetermined before all ages. Isaiah especially prefigures Jesus.

Then why Catholicism? Because of the overwhelming Scriptural support… the Keys to Peter, the Blessedness of the Blessed Virgin, the Hierarchical structure, the Seven Sacraments.

 

[discipleofJesus]

patg,

I do not really have the time to get into this topic in detail especially since very soon I will be very busy and will probably rarely come on this forum.

If you really are interested in this topic and want answers I suggest you read

The Case for Christ: A Journalist’s Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus
by Lee Strobel
amazon.com/gp/product/0310209307/qid=1138980700/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-0544551-2579103?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Further reading

I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
by Norman L. Geisler & Frank Turek
impactapologetics.com/catalog/details.asp?ItemID=B38&CategoryID=4

amazon.com/gp/product/1581345615/qid=1138980733/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-0544551-2579103?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

This book by Norman L. Geisler & Frank Turek builds a case for Christianity with twelve points that show Christianity is true

1. Truth about reality is knowable.
2. The opposite of true is false.
3. It is true that the theistic God exists.
4. If God exists, then miracles are possible.
5. Miracles can be used to confirm a message from God
   (i.e., as an act of God to confirm a word from God).
6. The New Testament is historically reliable.
7. The New Testament says Jesus claimed to be God.
8. Jesus’ claim to be God was miraculously confirmed by:
   a. His fulfillment of many prophecies about Himself;
   b. His sinless and miraculous life;
   c. His prediction and accomplishment of His resurrection.
9. Therefore, Jesus is God.
10. Whatever Jesus (who is God) teaches is true.
11. Jesus taught that the Bible is the Word of God.
12. Therefore, it is true that the Bible is the Word of God
    (and anything opposed to it is false).

and

Answering Islam: The Crescent in Light of the Cross
2nd edition
by Norman L. Geisler & Abdul Saleeb
impactapologetics.com/catalog/details.asp?ItemID=B07&CategoryID=4

amazon.com/gp/product/0801064309/qid=1138980933/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-0544551-2579103?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

 

[estesbob]

Hadith:

I see that many discussions have broken down into angry discussion. Let me use new tactic.

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God? Because he said so is about as valid as J. Smith’s saying he was told to become Mormon.

So I ask for you to explain to me how I can know this Jesus was the Son of God.

Or about as valid as Mohammed saying he was the the Great Prophet

 

[discipleofJesus]

“Why I Believe Jesus Is the Son of God”
by Peter Kreeft
shakinandshinin.org/WhyIBelieveJesusIsTheSonOfGod.html

 

[St.Eric]

Hadith:

I see that many discussions have broken down into angry discussion. Let me use new tactic.

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God? Because he said so is about as valid as J. Smith’s saying he was told to become Mormon.

So I ask for you to explain to me how I can know this Jesus was the Son of God.

Was he not been the fullfilment of every Old Testament prohpecy concerning the messiah? Yes, he was. that is how we can know he is the Messiah, the Son of God.

 

[estesbob]

Hadith:

I see that many discussions have broken down into angry discussion. Let me use new tactic.

How do you know that Jesus is the Son of God? Because he said so is about as valid as J. Smith’s saying he was told to become Mormon.

So I ask for you to explain to me how I can know this Jesus was the Son of God.

I have a Muslim friend who tells me that Jesus was a great Prophet. Now if that is true and he was not the son of God that presents us with a real problem. Was Jesus a liar? Was he Nuts? If a man was a liar and or nuts why would Muslims revere him as a great prophet?

 

[discipleofJesus]

patg:

That’s pretty subjective… It is also not unique among teachers nor is it unique to Chrisianity. I’m sure the same can be said about the founder of every religion so it hardly qulifies as proof of godliness.

What makes you so sure?

I’ll tell you from now, the teachings of Jesus much much more beautiful and moral than the teachings of Muhammad.

The teachings of Jesus are perfect, beautiful, moral teachings

The teachings of Muhammad are imperfect, not beautiful, immoral.

“Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil…”
(Isaiah 5:20)

 

[Mickey]

discipleofJesus:

The teachings of Muhammad are imperfect, not beautiful, immoral.

I am assuming you are very familiar with the Qur’an before making such a judgement?