How Do You Understand Church Teaching About Our Blessed Mother?

[Magdalena59]

This is a very touching and moving discussion by Fr. Peter Damian Fehlner and Mother Angelica on Mary as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate.

youtube.com/watch?v=R-p2D8Mfrqg

 

[patricius79]

What a great quote. The doctrine is there, they were just being cautious in their wording.

Dear Magdalena, daughter of our Mother,

Yes, the theologians certainly were clear that they “absolutely” were not contradicting statemens of the Supreme Pontiffs about how Mary redeemed the world together with Christ, as Pope Benedict 15th said, for example.

More than that, they were not contradicting the use of the term “Coredemptrix”, as used by the Papacy.

Moreover, Vatican II was clear that they were not giving an exhaustive treatment of Mariology. And of course, they say nothing in the least against terms like Coredemptrix. And of course they explicitly approve the terms “Mediatrix” , “Advocate”, and “Helper”–terms which speak to her union with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, her Spouse.

Another beautiful quotation I just read deals with the extent of our Mother’s holiness.

This is important to me because someone I know had seemed to be telling me that I was exaggerating Mary’s goodness.

According to Pope Pius the 9th (in his document which dogmatically defined the Immacultae Conception…

…it is not possible even for God to create a creature nearer to Himself than our Mother!

Hence, it is the clear and unanimous opinion of the Fathers that the most glorious Virgin, for whom “he who is mighty has done great things,” was resplendent with such an abundance of heavenly gifts, with such a fullness of grace and with such innocence, that she is an unspeakable miracle of God – indeed, the crown of all miracles and truly the Mother of God; that she approaches as near to God himself as is possible for a created being; and that she is above all men and angels in glory.
papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm

All praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, our God!

 

[patricius79]

Pope Blessed Paul VI

This Tremendous Lover by Dom Eugene Boylan, O.C.R., Chapter 22 - Mary, the mother of the whole Christ, pages 320-321.

The Mother of Christ

The Mariology of Cardinal Journet

Our Lady is the perfect model of the Christian. But what a rebuke to our notions and standards! She had the best-equipped mind that ever lived in Christendom. She was enlightened as no prophet ever had been enlightened. She had a power of intercession of which no one can determine the limit. She had a zeal for her Son’s glory and for her Son’s work that burned more fiercely than the zeal of all the great souls of the Church. Yet what was her life? Ordinary - obscure - laborious! The wife of a village carpenter, she takes care to lose herself in the crowd.

Dear son of our Mother, JM3

That is so beautiful! As our Lord said, God hides things from the wise–i.e. those who are wise in their own eyes-- and reveals them to little children.

As I understand it, the Church teaches that only God can fully understand how humble and good our Mother is! (Pius 9th, Ineffabilis Deus)

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Hi Patricius ,

In your own words, no quotes, what do you understand of the Church teaching. Dot point is always simple. I will respond later after Mass. It is Sunday here.

We arent speaking about personal experience or private revelation are we?

Did I miss the response ?

It is written in the Bible that Salvation is by God through His Son Jesus Christ.

Mass on Sunday went 15 minutes over the hour. It was celebrated by the young priest who, I believe, is to be an amazing life. His Homily spoke of the parables of the Prodigal Son, and the Samaritan woman at the well. Jesus Christ asked for a drink of water. The Samaritan woman drew Him one, Only after overcoming the ’ I am a Samaritan and You a Jew’ discourse of the day. Then Jesus discussed the quenching water of salvation for us by God, through the Messiah. She knew the Messiah was going to be given to the world, as the prophets of the Old Testament had written.
Jesus revealed to her He was the Messiah. The Samaritan woman ran back to the village , to tell everyone, forgetting to take her bucket or water… Can you imagine how she felt at that point.
At that moment she had dropped everything to follow Christ, in her way.

My wonderful Priest had the Cathedral congregation absolutely focussed on his Homily. He spoke of ‘Ask, Seek, Knock’ . And the three Lenten E,s to practice. Endurance , encouragement and enlightenment.

Patricius I thought you were female but see you are male. So mate, Listen to our good Priest in this thread. Find enlightenment in his words. Correct your errors. Redefine the Blessed Virgin Mary gifting her the proper role assigned her by God through the Trinity.
No fancy words or quotes here, The role of Our Blessed Spiritual Mother is that of a mother, nourishment of the soul, spiritual guidance, and helping us to crush her adversary, and ours, under our feet.

As much as the desire of any mother, to save and protect and nourish and guide her children, Our Blessed Lady of Fatima wants that for us . However; it is God’s work , through Jesus Christ, to grant salvation to His creatures.
Pray the Rosary and Give God all Glory.
All salvation is by God, through Jesus Christ.

I am reading very little about giving Glory to God, on CAF. Have Catholics forgotten this?
Spread the word.
All power and glory to God.

 

[patricius79]

This is a very touching and moving discussion by Fr. Peter Damian Fehlner and Mother Angelica on Mary as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate.

youtube.com/watch?v=R-p2D8Mfrqg

Dear Magdalena, daughter of my Mother,

What a man that priest is! It’s going to take me a while to begin processing this.

But it sounds so far that he–like John Paul II and St. Louis DeMontfort (whom JPII approves–sees the whole mystery of the Redemption by Jesus and Mary–culminating in the Passion–as being within the mystery of the the Incarnation, when God’s creature (Mary) humbly embraces the call to become God’s Mother, so that we could be saved.

As St. Maximiian Kolbe points out, the mystery of being God’s Mother is so wonderful that we cannot understand it. It is within this mystery, though, that we must understand Mary’s role as being uniquely, particularly, the Mother of each individual person, and her role as Coredemptrix who unites us to Jesus Christ.

 

[Magdalena59]

Did I miss the response ?

It is written in the Bible that Salvation is by God through His Son Jesus Christ.

Mass on Sunday went 15 minutes over the hour. It was celebrated by the young priest who, I believe, is to be an amazing life. His Homily spoke of the parables of the Prodigal Son, and the Samaritan woman at the well. Jesus Christ asked for a drink of water. The Samaritan woman drew Him one, Only after overcoming the ’ I am a Samaritan and You a Jew’ discourse of the day. Then Jesus discussed the quenching water of salvation for us by God, through the Messiah. She knew the Messiah was going to be given to the world, as the prophets of the Old Testament had written.
Jesus revealed to her He was the Messiah. The Samaritan woman ran back to the village , to tell everyone, forgetting to take her bucket or water… Can you imagine how she felt at that point.
At that moment she had dropped everything to follow Christ, in her way.

My wonderful Priest had the Cathedral congregation absolutely focussed on his Homily. He spoke of ‘Ask, Seek, Knock’ . And the three Lenten E,s to practice. Endurance , encouragement and enlightenment.

Patricius I thought you were female but see you are male. So mate, Listen to our good Priest in this thread. Find enlightenment in his words. Correct your errors. Redefine the Blessed Virgin Mary gifting her the proper role assigned her by God through the Trinity.
No fancy words or quotes here, The role of Our Blessed Spiritual Mother is that of a mother, nourishment of the soul, spiritual guidance, and helping us to crush her adversary, and ours, under our feet.

As much as the desire of any mother, to save and protect and nourish and guide her children, Our Blessed Lady of Fatima wants that for us . However; it is God’s work , through Jesus Christ, to grant salvation to His creatures.
Pray the Rosary and Give God all Glory.
All salvation is by God, through Jesus Christ.

I am reading very little about giving Glory to God, on CAF. Have Catholics forgotten this?
Spread the word.
All power and glory to God.

Roseeurekacross,

I hope I am not misstepping but I think what is happening is that people are misunderstanding Patricius79 to be saying that Mary is our salvation or our Redeemer. He has said many times in his posts that anything that comes from Mary is of God and that it is Jesus who saves us.

I understand Patricius79 to be saying, as the Catholic church teaches, that Mary in her unique role plays a most important part in salvation and therefore we honor, venerate and love her and as Christians we know that love is not always an emotion but an action. As Lumen Gentium tells us she is “Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix…In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.”

Though the title of co-Remptrix was not given to her at Vatican II and made dogma, the role has always been understood in doctrine. It means she co-operates with the Redeemer.

And as Lumen Gentium again tells us this is a subordinate role. Co-Redemptrix means “the woman with the Redeemer”. It doesn’t mean the Redeemer. That title alone is for Our Lord.

This is what Patricius79 is saying.

God bless.

 

[Magdalena59]

Dear Magdalena, daughter of my Mother,

What a man that priest is! It’s going to take me a while to begin processing this.

But it sounds so far that he–like John Paul II and St. Louis DeMontfort (whom JPII approves–sees the whole mystery of the Redemption by Jesus and Mary–culminating in the Passion–as being within the mystery of the the Incarnation, when God’s creature (Mary) humbly embraces the call to become God’s Mother, so that we could be saved.

As St. Maximiian Kolbe points out, the mystery of being God’s Mother is so wonderful that we cannot understand it. It is within this mystery, though, that we must understand Mary’s role as being uniquely, particularly, the Mother of each individual person, and her role as Coredemptrix who unites us to Jesus Christ.

I agree it was very good. Fr. Peter Damian Fehlner was very good in explaining Mary’s role and what it means to us.

 

[James248]

Roseeurekacross,

I hope I am not misstepping but I think what is happening is that people are misunderstanding Patricius79 to be saying that Mary is our salvation or our Redeemer. He has said many times in his posts that anything that comes from Mary is of God and that it is Jesus who saves us.

I understand Patricius79 to be saying, as the Catholic church teaches, that Mary in her unique role plays a most important part in salvation and therefore we honor, venerate and love her and as Christians we know that love is not always an emotion but an action. As Lumen Gentium tells us she is “Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix…In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.”

Though the title of co-Remptrix was not given to her at Vatican II and made dogma, the role has always been understood in doctrine. It means she co-operates with the Redeemer.

And as Lumen Gentium again tells us this is a subordinate role. Co-Redemptrix means “the woman with the Redeemer”. It doesn’t mean the Redeemer. That title alone is for Our Lord.

This is what Patricius79 is saying.

God bless.

In Paul’s letters, he states that non Jewish believers are co-heirs with Jewish believers. So even Scripture takes “co” as equal to.

Such terms tend to scare believers and lead them astray.

 

[patricius79]

Did I miss the response ?

It is written in the Bible that Salvation is by God through His Son Jesus Christ.

Mass on Sunday went 15 minutes over the hour. It was celebrated by the young priest who, I believe, is to be an amazing life. His Homily spoke of the parables of the Prodigal Son, and the Samaritan woman at the well. Jesus Christ asked for a drink of water. The Samaritan woman drew Him one, Only after overcoming the ’ I am a Samaritan and You a Jew’ discourse of the day. Then Jesus discussed the quenching water of salvation for us by God, through the Messiah. She knew the Messiah was going to be given to the world, as the prophets of the Old Testament had written.
Jesus revealed to her He was the Messiah. The Samaritan woman ran back to the village , to tell everyone, forgetting to take her bucket or water… Can you imagine how she felt at that point.
At that moment she had dropped everything to follow Christ, in her way.

Hi Patricius ,

In your own words, no quotes, what do you understand of the Church teaching. Dot point is always simple. I will respond later after Mass. It is Sunday here.

We arent speaking about personal experience or private revelation are we?

Dear brother Roseeureakross, son of my Mother,

Thanks for writing.

No, we are not merely speaking about subjective experiences speaking about personal relationships within the Family God, under the guidance of the Magisterium regarding the Catholic faith, the loving embrace of which is a matter of salvation.

Yes, salvation is from God the Father, Mediated through the Lord Jesus Christ. in the Holy Spirit (Mary’s Spouse)

As Vatican II says explicitly, Mary’s role in bringing us the gifts of eternal salvation shows the power of this One Mediation.

Yes, the Samaritan Woman had–after many attempts to find love and probably finding herself quite miserable, had found the Holy One who was completely present to her, loving her and affirming her just as she was/is.

All this happened by the gift of Jesus Christ through Mary, the woman’s Mother and Mediatrix.

My understanding of Church teaching is that there is One Eternal Infinite Divine Nature in Three Persons.

The Father sent the Second Person, the Son, to take on a second nature–a human nature–for our salvation.

He chose to do this through the free assent of a creature he had created–Mary–who is always as close to Him as it is possible for a creature to be. No creature could ever be created to be holier.

In other words, even God cannot exalt a creature more than making that creature to be the Mother of God (the Son).

Mary was exalted to this extent to be our sweet bond with Jesus Christ, so that by suffering all the redemptive work which they accomplished together, by His grace (for she too is redeemed by Christ), she was given to us by the Crucified Christ.

She was so that each human person–without exception–could have a completely unique relationship with her as Mother, and --through this Maternal Helper–with Jesus Christ as Savior and God.

I’m not an educated person, so I may not have chosen the best words, but this is something of what my understanding is.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[Magdalena59]

In Paul’s letters, he states that non Jewish believers are co-heirs with Jewish believers. So even Scripture takes “co” as equal to.

Such terms tend to scare believers and lead them astray.

It could also be in a different context. He could just be meaning that they are heirs with the Jewish believers. This is my translation: *That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs,
*

The word co-Redemptrix comes from two latin words: cum, pronounced coom, meaning “with” and Redemptrix which means “a woman participating in redemption”.

The meaning of co-Redemptrix
youtube.com/watch?v=vo_GSXTmIx4

Your second point about scaring believers and leading them astray is the very reason at Vatican II three persons at the council in creating the document chose their words very carefully. They explain the doctrine but do not specifically give her the title because of that very reason, so the doctrine is there. It is Church teaching but officially giving Mary the title has not happened but many are praying that it will happen.

Patricius79s answer to Roseeurekacross is very good and explains it pretty good.

 

[patricius79]

In Paul’s letters, he states that non Jewish believers are co-heirs with Jewish believers. So even Scripture takes “co” as equal to.

Dear brother James, son of my Mother

It may be used differently based on context. Language is very complex, but the Popes would not have called Mary Coredemptrix, as they do, if “co” implied equality. Actually it is meant to emphasize inequality.

The Council of Trent talked about how we must cooperate in our salvation. But this does not in the least imply our equality with God.

I believe Paul also says that he is one of God’s “co-workers”. Yet Paul is not in the least claiming equality with God.

In Catholic doctrine–Coredemption being actual Catholic doctrine stated by Popes like Pius 11 and Benedict 15 and Pius 10 and St. John Paul II --the “co” part is used to emphasize the subordinate role.

It’s like being a “co-pilot”, for example, as Dr. Miravalle says.

Christ gave His Cooperatrix (another approved title) to us from His Cross of Salvation, to be our Mother.

I want to fully receive this gift, so that I can fully receive Jesus Christ, the Eucharist!

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[James248]

It could also be in a different context. He could just be meaning that they are heirs with the Jewish believers. This is my translation: *That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs,
*

The word co-Redemptrix comes from two latin words: cum, pronounced coom, meaning “with” and Redemptrix which means “a woman participating in redemption”.

The meaning of co-Redemptrix
youtube.com/watch?v=vo_GSXTmIx4

Or it could mean, most likely, that we are all heirs of the Kingdom equally.

If you want to stress that people participated in events that were essential to our salvation, stress that it was God who set these events in motion.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Roseeurekacross,

I hope I am not misstepping but I think what is happening is that people are misunderstanding Patricius79 to be saying that Mary is our salvation or our Redeemer. He has said many times in his posts that anything that comes from Mary is of God and that it is Jesus who saves us.

I understand Patricius79 to be saying, as the Catholic church teaches, that Mary in her unique role plays a most important part in salvation and therefore we honor, venerate and love her and as Christians we know that love is not always an emotion but an action. As Lumen Gentium tells us she is “Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix…In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.”

Though the title of co-Remptrix was not given to her at Vatican II and made dogma, the role has always been understood in doctrine. It means she co-operates with the Redeemer.

And as Lumen Gentium again tells us this is a subordinate role. Co-Redemptrix means “the woman with the Redeemer”. It doesn’t mean the Redeemer. That title alone is for Our Lord.

This is what Patricius79 is saying.

God bless.

I have misunderstood nothing.

The original poster demonstrates that he is, actually, in serious need of help.

 

[Magdalena59]

Or it could mean, most likely, that we are all heirs of the Kingdom equally.

If you want to stress that people participated in events that were essential to our salvation, stress that it was God who set these events in motion.

I agree it was God who set the events in motion, of course. Mary does nothing without God. None of us do.

I like to think of it this way. God created us all. We were all born with original sin. We are all sinful but Mary was different. She was not born with original sin. She was sinless. How wonderful He must look at His sinless creation and say, “that is good”. Her role was set apart by God, for us.

 

[James248]

I agree it was God who set the events in motion, of course. Mary does nothing without God. None of us do.

I like to think of it this way. God created us all. We were all born with original sin. We are all sinful but Mary was different. She was not born with original sin. She was sinless. How wonderful He must look at His sinless creation and say, “that is good”. Her role was set apart by God, for us.

If you really think this I cannot judge you.

But going around, saying that “loving” Mary is essential to salvation, is in fact, a grave sin against what Holy Mother Church teaches through her leaders. So, it is heresy.

 

[Magdalena59]

If you really think this I cannot judge you.

But going around, saying that “loving” Mary is essential to salvation, is in fact, a grave sin against what Holy Mother Church teaches through her leaders. So, it is heresy.

I did not say that loving Mary is essential to salvation and it is not heresy to love the Mother of Our Lord. The Catholic church has always honored and venerated Mary because of her unique role in salvation.

The love that we give to the Blessed Mother is not a lovey feeling kind of love, though it can be. It is an action, which is what true love is. It is an honoring her for the role she was given, the level God placed her in, in this world. Just as we “should” honor or respect anyone who holds a high position, such as a pope, a president or a king or queen.

Even those who do not know her yet as Mother, who struggle with her role, she is still always interceding on their behalf. She still loves us even when we don’t recognize it.

This takes absolutely nothing away from Christ. She only leads us to Him.

Saint Ambrose says that the tears that Mary shed at the crucifixion were for us.

God bless.

 

[pianistclare]

These are not just my thoughts but this is Catholic. It is not heresy to honor the Mother of Our Lord. The Catholic church has always honored and venerated Mary because of her unique role in salvation.

The love that we give to the Blessed Mother is not a lovey feeling kind of love, though it can be. It is an action, which is what true love is. It is an honoring her for the role she was given, the level God placed her in, in this world. Just as we “should” honor or respect anyone who holds a high position, such as a pope, a president or a king or queen.

Even those who do not know her yet as Mother, who struggle with her role, she is still always interceding on their behalf. She still loves us even when we don’t recognize it.

This takes absolutely nothing away from Christ. She only leads us to Him.

Saint Ambrose says that the tears that Mary shed at the crucifixion were mostly for us humans.

God bless.

Once again, you and others read around the posters. Not reading accurately.
Reading AROUND to see what you want to see.
He DID NOT say that it was heresy to love Our Lady.



I have to ask…what are your motives for continually misrepresenting the others on this thread?

 

[Magdalena59]

Once again, you and others read around the posters. Not reading accurately.
Reading AROUND to see what you want to see.
He DID NOT say that it was heresy to love Our Lady.
Far from it.

I have to ask…what are your motives for continually misrepresenting the topic?

Sorry, no bad motives here. Got interrupted. I shouldn’t have hit submit yet. I was still working on my post. Sometimes I hit submit and then go back and edit after I look at it.

I was trying to explain though that is important in our salvation to love her by honoring her, that type of love is not heresy.

 

[patricius79]

Roseeurekacross,

I hope I am not misstepping but I think what is happening is that people are misunderstanding Patricius79 to be saying that Mary is our salvation or our Redeemer. He has said many times in his posts that anything that comes from Mary is of God and that it is Jesus who saves us.

I understand Patricius79 to be saying, as the Catholic church teaches, that Mary in her unique role plays a most important part in salvation and therefore we honor, venerate and love her and as Christians we know that love is not always an emotion but an action. As Lumen Gentium tells us she is “Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix…In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.”

Though the title of co-Remptrix was not given to her at Vatican II and made dogma, the role has always been understood in doctrine. It means she co-operates with the Redeemer.

And as Lumen Gentium again tells us this is a subordinate role. Co-Redemptrix means “the woman with the Redeemer”. It doesn’t mean the Redeemer. That title alone is for Our Lord.

This is what Patricius79 is saying.

God bless.

Dear sister Magdalena, daughter of Mary,

Yes, that is what I am saying

I want to be more grateful to God for redeeming us through Mary, who conceived God the Son in her womb, so that we could be saved through the Cross where she offered her Son to God the Father, with the help of her maternal mediation.

Mary’s goodness toward us, her children, only goes to show the power, wisdom, and goodness of our Savior Jesus Christ, to whom Mary unites us.

No creature could ever be closer to God Himself than Mary. Nor can we begin to imagine how much Mary loves each human person as her child.

Yet Mary–the Spouse of God the Holy Spirit and the Mother of God the Son–remains infinitely less than God.

Mary is merely the humble channel–Mediatrix of all Graces–of God’s Infinite Mercy in Jesus Christ.

Peace of Jesus Christ,

Pat

 

[James248]

Devotion to Mary is not essential to salvation. I mean: a respect for her is required as well assenting to the dogmas. That alone is enough. But to anyway indicate that failure to love Mary damns a person is heresy.