How does a Catholic increase the chance of getting into Heaven?

[CentralFLJames]

****I’ll let the Scripture speak to this:

1 Corinthians 7 -
1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.**** 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband {does;} and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife {does.} 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So if you want to increase your chances of getting to heaven; quit denying each other so Satan doesn’t drawl you into sexual temptation.

Oh my Lord save us from this man’s nonsense!

So your teaching here is “go have sex for Jesus and copulate your way into heaven!!!” And you tell Catholics WE have a works based salvation???
Let me guess, you would have no problem manufacturing new “Christian condoms” impressed with the letters “WWJD” and selling them as expressions of faith and then giving 10% of the profits to your church under a tawdry banner of saving men from their sins?

What Jesus would do is rebuke you to your face. And I won’t tell you what the apostle Peter would want to do to you with his sword if you showed up preaching this nonsence around him.

Hint: It’s related to an incompetent circumcision.


James

 

[Tanner9188]

Nice attempt to divide and conquer Tanner. I have nothing but admiration for guanophore’s apologetics style and ability to cut to the chase of the matter in a few words. How ironic that you would hold me up as an example when I desire and would hold his style as more exemplar and would prefer to be as charitable and as concise and to the point as he is.

James

James, You don’t whine and complain; you just keep plowing; you mean what you say and say what you mean…I disagree with mosh of what you say, but you don’t cry foul and get very distracted. Therefore I have greater respect for you in that manner. I could call you “Teflon James”…LOL

 

[SteveGC]

Thanks for the advise. I can’t find a Catholic that "shares precisely" the same interpretation of the Bible , dogmas, catechisms, history et al. i can hardly, I can’t think of one, icluding yourself, that believe everything taught by your church. A vast majority are of the “Cafeteria variety”; so what does this say about all of you? I don’t know, still trying to learn more in that area.

You’re confusing belief with doctrinal proclamations pertaining to faith and morals. The Church infallibly possesses the latter, while the former need not necessarily be universal. IOW, what is fundamentally significant is that Truth be fully and perpetually present here on earth, regardless of whether any individual believes it or not. What I’m pointing out to you is that you don’t know your own church (body of believers). I’m comparing your “church” to Christ’s Catholic Church. The leadership of the Catholic Church is in full agreement of all doctrines of faith and morals, and faithful Catholics are 100% unified in their belief in, and adherence to, those doctrines. Tanner appears to be a church of one, which is hardly a “body of believers”, since you are unaware of anyone who espouses the same doctrinal conclusions as you.

As I have said; all of you have greater faith than I do.

I don’t know about that. This isn’t a competition in personal faith, Tanner. This is about squaring away what the Truth actually IS.

You and Guan whine too much with Guan being ahead of you at this point IMO. At least to CJF’s credit; he just insults and calls names, but doesn’t whine and complain because he doesn’t agree with something; perhaps he has a good layer of Teflon???

Whine?..hmmm…whine: to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way

pray-tell…what precisely am I “whining” about? Or are you saying I’m an annoyance to you because I’m serving as a road-block to your proselytization agenda here? If that’s the case…get me some more cheese please, cuz there’s more whine a-comin’

 

[CentralFLJames]

James, You don’t whine and complain; you just keep plowing; you mean what you say and say what you mean…I disagree with mosh of what you say, but you don’t cry foul and get very distracted. Therefore I have greater respect for you in that manner. I could call you “Teflon James”…LOL

Better scroll up and look at what I just wrote above. This last faux pas of yours “got to me”.

James

 

[Tanner9188]

Tanner, while it is true that a lay person can evangelize, that does not make him a priest. Priests, through their training and ordination, have the power to transmit the grace of God through the sacraments. You do not have that power. All you can do is exhort others to follow God. In our case, we are exhorting people to gain those graces through the sacraments. In your case, you are exhorting people to forsake the graces available through the sacraments. Hopefully, not many are listening to your message because it is to their detriment.

I’m not telling anyone to do anything; that is your own interpretation. I encourage folks to search the scriptures to see if what anyone, especially myself, says in relation to what the Bible teaches and discern for yourself.

So if a lay person can do it; then where is the “mystical power” you all so tightly associate the “key” and the power to permit or forbid, loose and bind. The is no mystery or mystical power as some suppose; you just agreed, then had to put in a “but”…LOL

It really is not very complicated, but when you take a verse out of the Bible and impose onto what you want it to say and ignore the whole of Scripture and ignore the practical example I presented, then you can build entire religious systems on this by interpreting the Bible the why one wants rather than letting God speak for Himself, which He always does and in the end, He prevails and all false religions will crash and burn when the patience and long suffering of the Lord has expired. One thing will will see with false religions, for example the JW’s and Mormons, is always a large body of information to explain the position they have taken against what the Word of God actually, really and practically says. Again, don’t take my word for it; search the Scriptures for their you will find eternal life.

It is so amazingly simple to reconcile those two readings You need BOTH Faith and Works. Faith because intent matters to God and if you are doing works for love of God, they will be counted as righteous. Remember the descriptions in the sermon on the Mount? (Matthew 6) Those that prayed, fasted or Gave Alms for public praise already got their reward. Only those that did it for love of God were credited as righteous. Works are also needed because love is active. It is doing things for others without expecting anything in return.

And by the way, why do Protestants always quote Ephesians 2: 8-9, without adding verse 10?
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10 For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them

We are made FOR good works. You need BOTH faith and Works…

Is that the reconciliation of the two? Did you do an honest search of the Scripture as I suggested?

What was the major error the Jewish authorities were condemned by Jesus for? how would this relates to works; in light of faith? Works will not add to justification or merit saving grace as the Bible clearly teaches.

Verse 10 is important, but not in the context of showing the apparent contradiction between James and Paul; however it is a good clue to how the two can be reconciled.

 

[nuntym]

****I’ll let the Scripture speak to this:

1 Corinthians 7 -
1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.**** 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband {does;} and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife {does.} 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So if you want to increase your chances of getting to heaven; quit denying each other so Satan doesn’t drawl you into sexual temptation.

:doh2: Goodness, this is embarrassing…

 

[Thing]

Tanner:

You are showing the OT Jews outward symbol of remorse for offending God, you will not find this outward expression in the NT; there are other OT outward expression that you will not find in the NT. You must put it into context. if Jesus or the apostles and other named disciples would have done this even once or twice in the NT, then I would or may agree. When is the last time you put on your sackcloth?

The Apocalypse is a book of the New Testament, circa 100AD.

When is the last time you put on your sackcloth?

Catholics are supposed to put on their sackcloth at least once a year, usually around Easter time. But its not restricted, penance is good;

1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist preaching in the desert of Judea. 2 And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by Isaias the prophet, saying: A voice of one crying in the desert, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths. 4 And the same John had his garment of camels’ hair,

 

[CentralFLJames]

:doh2: What happened to salvation by faith alone?

Here here. Can you just imagine how many “not truely saved” Protestant men lost their salvation the day Old Faithful got behind the work schedule or retired?


I suppose the going away lesson he is giving, at least for “truly saved” Christian men, is pray that you die early before the timber falls and one follows it down into the pit.

James

 

[Tanner9188]

Sorry, we need some more clarification. Which edition of the New Testament were the Bereans using? If you want to really follow their example wouldn’t you necessarily be restricting yourself to examining the Old Testament alone since the Catholic Church had not yet determined which books were to be included in the Canon of the Bible?

Tom, did you search the scripture to see if I was right or wrong? Why not?

2 peter 3 - (Here Peter puts all of Paul’s teaching and writings on par with sacred writings)

"14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. "

What is Scriptures? a certain portion or section of the Holy Scripture
The word “wrote” in verse 15 is the same word used in verse 16 “Scriptures” - “graphē”

It is not limited to what was written at that time; but also the oral teachings uttered by the Holy Spirit though men. Today we have it in the written form and we are greatly blessed if we are diligent to take full advantage of our position.

You show great faith by taking things at less than face value; much greater than mine.

 

[CentralFLJames]

**
When is the last time you put on your sackcloth?
**

I suppose you do not know that Catholics fast, pray, give alms and repent every Lent for 40 days? We have gotten away from sack cloth since its too obvious that we are suffering - we try to be more modest about it in accordance with the NT teachings. But penance is a huge part of salvation of repentance and developing the proper interior state of contrition to open us up more to God’s grace and inner transformation.

Where did Christ institute anything but water baptism and the Lords supper; or the apostles for that matter? No where. You cannot provide 2 versus in the NT to back this claim.

We have pointed out the scriptural basis for all the sacraments many times. There are many dozens of both OT prefiguring scripture and NT scripture that when taken with true apostolic teaching as witnessed in the recorded statements of the Early Church Father’s makes it obvious to even the pessimist or the suspicious mind.

Here: scripturecatholic.com/

Thing; anyone who know the true and unadulterated gospel and can articulate that to someone can do the exact same thing; it applies to all qualified Christians and if you like I will give you a simple practical illustration to prove the point.

Sorry Tanner but as we have pointed out by citing the early church fathers, the sense that you “know” the gospel is anything but “unadulterated”.

Good idea to keep yourself accountable to your brother and sisters and allow them to build you up in your weakness.

---

Practically speaking; did Jesus or an apostles ever do what you just described? Is there any mention in the Bible of “rent a priest” for implementing sacraments? Show me at least two versus to support your position. Keep in mind; an overseer, elder or shepherd are not the same terms used in the NT as the word priest is used; there are marked distinctions.

You are simply not being factual by saying that the elders, overseer, presbyteroi, episkopi do not refer to priests, bishops etc. Read some of the early Church Fathers that prove to us that The Church ALWAYS had bishops and priests since the first century.

*Acts 20:17,28 - Paul refers to both the elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) and the bishops (“episkopoi”) of the Church. Both are ordained leaders within the hierarchical structure of the Church.

1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7 - Christ’s Church has bishops (“episkopoi”) who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles.

Accordingly, elect for yourselves bishops and deacons, men who are an honor to the Lord, of gentle disposition, not attached to money, honest and well-tried; for they, too, render you the sacred service of the prophets and teachers." The Didache (c. A.D. 90).

“Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry.” Clement of Rome, Pope, 1st Epistle to the Corinthians, 44:1-2 (c. A.D. 96).

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the** bishop**. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the **bishop **shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110). *

What you miss is the spirit of the repentant heart, which God recognizes and is directed to Him through His son. In the OT there was not the “pouring out” of the Holy Spirit, like we see in the NT. One major thing accomplished on the cross was the removal of a formalized priesthood and hierarchical structure designed specifically for Israel; not for the New Covenant church, which Christ is building and will be revealed when all the elect are called in. For now, we have the visible local church which has leaders that maintain specific oversight and duties toward each flock. The Chief Shepherd watches over the entire flock, made of little flocks. If you don’t believe this, then search the Scriptures. Revelation chapters 2 and 3 would be a good place to begin, since here Jesus demonstrates His authority of the the individual local flocks.

This is a LIE.

James

 

[Thing]

---

Where did Christ institute anything but water baptism and the Lords supper; or the apostles for that matter? No where. You cannot provide 2 versus in the NT to back this claim.

I provided three.

Thing; anyone who know the true and unadulterated gospel and can articulate that to someone can do the exact same thing; it applies to all qualified Christians and if you like I will give you a simple practical illustration to prove the point.

Please do, I thought you were going to say only God can forgive sins, not man. But, perhaps you are actually going to say that any man can forgive sins except Catholic priests and Bishops.

Good idea to keep yourself accountable to your brother and sisters and allow them to build you up in your weakness.

Actually, the context here is that if you receive the host unworthily are doing this;

Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

Therefore they must confess their sins first, to be worthy to eat the bread and drink the wine so that they do not eateth and drinketh judgment to himself.

---

Practically speaking; did Jesus or an apostles ever do what you just described? Is there any mention in the Bible of “rent a priest” for implementing sacraments? Show me at least two versus to support your position. Keep in mind; an overseer, elder or shepherd are not the same terms used in the NT as the word priest is used; there are marked distinctions.

23 Which is easier to say, Thy sins are forgiven thee; or to say, Arise and walk?

What you miss is the spirit of the repentant heart, which God recognizes and is directed to Him through His son. In the OT there was not the “pouring out” of the Holy Spirit, like we see in the NT. One major thing accomplished on the cross was the removal of a formalized priesthood and hierarchical structure designed specifically for Israel; not for the New Covenant church, which Christ is building and will be revealed when all the elect are called in. For now, we have the visible local church which has leaders that maintain specific oversight and duties toward each flock. The Chief Shepherd watches over the entire flock, made of little flocks. If you don’t believe this, then search the Scriptures. Revelation chapters 2 and 3 would be a good place to begin, since here Jesus demonstrates His authority of the the individual local flocks.

But Melchisedech the king of Salem, bringing forth bread and wine, for he was the priest of the most high God,

The Lord hath sworn, and he will not repent: Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech.

15 And he said to them: With desire I have desired to eat this pasch with you, before I suffer.
16 For I say to you, that from this time I will not eat it, till it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And having taken the chalice, he gave thanks, and said: Take, and divide it among you: 18 For I say to you, that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, till the kingdom of God come. 19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. 20 In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

11 For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[Tanner9188]

As far as the Bible interpreting itself you still have not addressed the fact that if what you say is true why are there so many different sects within Protestantism interpreting the same Bible differently?

I have addressed this in numerous spots, but for your sake I will do it again.
It is not what I say that should be seen as true unless you first are able to verify it from Scripture; if what I say is true because God said it was true, then embrace the Scriptural teaching; if it is not true, then show me why it is not so I don’t make the error again. This applies to everyone; but few people use the Scripture to verify much; therefore you have all kinds of bad teaching not from God. This is as true in the Protestant neighborhood as it is in the Catholic neighborhood.

 

[Tanner9188]

Ah-huh! And now here’s what the Scriptures say:Gal 3:26 "For you are all sons of God (how?) through faith in Christ Jesus."Nope, no “formal effect” of so-called “sanctifying grace.” Even with the doctrine of divine adoption you stumble over the simplicity of it all.

**MD, If they would read and understand the very words of Peter; the outcome would be different. If they could read and understand Romans 10; they would see that God saves the same in both the OT and the NT the same way, all of grace by faith in God.

Join me in prayer to this end.

God bless and thanks the words of encouragement.

Tanner**

 

[Tanner9188]

Caution. You have not finished the race as St. Paul teaches.

**
MD is telling you what God has said; but don’t take my word or his; search the Scripture to see if these things are true; if they are them embrace and understand; if not, then show where the error is so we may learn from our mistakes. Our greatest desire is to serve the Lord in Spirit and Truth.

Winning the race implies perseverance; but to win the race is to receive rewards for the “good and faithful” servant. We have already passed from condemnation into everlasting life in Christ.**

 

[nuntym]

I have addressed this in numerous spots, but for your sake I will do it again.
It is not what I say that should be seen as true unless you first are able to verify it from Scripture; if what I say is true because God said it was true, then embrace the Scriptural teaching; if it is not true, then show me why it is not so I don’t make the error again. This applies to everyone; but few people use the Scripture to verify much; therefore you have all kinds of bad teaching not from God. This is as true in the Protestant neighborhood as it is in the Catholic neighborhood.

Tanner, from what I am gathering from your and moondweller’s posts, I am starting to really hate your version of the Gospel.

If I am not mistaken, what you are saying in this post is that no human currently alive and no organization can teach infallibly the Gospel. According to you, each Christian teaching heard by a Christian must be validated by him/her guided by the Holy Spirit against the Holy Bible, so that he/she’ll get the correct version of the Gospel. Correct?

My goodness Tanner, do you know what you are saying? You are cutting off the Gospel from the Lord’s most beloved people, the POOR and the UNEDUCATED! The majority of the people on earth do not have the intelligence to analyze the Holy Bible as we are doing now. Heck, there are many people who CANNOT even READ! And there are so many people who cannot even AFFORD a Bible! And consider how it was much worse centuries ago.

Moreover, your answer has no reassurance. Tanner, you yourself say that you could be wrong:

It is not what I say that should be seen as true unless you first are able to verify it from Scripture; if what I say is true because God said it was true, then embrace the Scriptural teaching; if it is not true, then show me why it is not so I don’t make the error again.

Where is “the Truth Teacher” in all this, Tanner? Why didn’t He correct you? Why didn’t He guide you so that you can be assured of not being wrong in the first place?

And if even you cannot reassure us that your way of accepting guidance from the Holy Spirit is infallible, then what is going to assure us that when we follow your direction we will not twist the Scriptures to our own destruction?

Tanner, my goodness, your gospel is no good news.

Again I am off for two days for work. In the meantime Tanner, moondweller, examine your beliefs carefully. They are going to condemn you if you do not change.

God bless.

 

[Tomster]

**
MD is telling you what God has said; but don’t take my word or his; search the Scripture to see if these things are true; if they are them embrace and understand; if not, then show where the error is so we may learn from our mistakes. Our greatest desire is to serve the Lord in Spirit and Truth.

Winning the race implies perseverance; but to win the race is to receive rewards for the “good and faithful” servant. We have already passed from condemnation into everlasting life in Christ.**

Not if you “backslide.” Please define the word “backslide” in Fundamentalist lingo.

 

[Tanner9188]

Can you show me where I have replied within someone’s quote box?

I apologize to you for being presumptuous basing my idea that in 1000 posts everyone is bound to do that at least once; I don’t know if you have or not and if you say you haven’t, then I will take it at face value because I’m not going through a 1000 posts. So I apologize.

This message vs. messenger thing is absolutely ridiculous, Tanner. You’ll resort to any word-games to try to prove we don’t follow Christ, won’t you?

I cannot do that only Holy Spirit could do that in this life. But the life is in the message.

CHRIST is BOTH the messenger AND the message. It is the PERSON of Christ that came first…not the good news written down regarding His coming. Both He (the messenger) and what we now know about Him (the message) are equally vital…get rid of one of them, and there is NO Christianity. The only reason the apostles (and their successors) are vital also as messengers is because CHRIST chose them, taught them, and gave them the Spirit of God. These are our messengers (under Christ as the prime messenger) that we emphasize…right along side the equal emphasis given to the MESSAGE. Can we agree finally on this, and move on?

We agree and I have stated this many times; the message is the gospel of grace which is the Person of Christ.

So, you believe a Bible which was edited and “corrected” 1200 years after it was canonized is the right one…OK, fine (obviously you have a limited understanding of canonical history)…but OK. Regardless, your “sole sufficiency” theory is mentioned nowhere in Scripture. Later today I want to go back to your explanation of why you think the verses in Timothy allow you to make that claim…more later.

I do have limited understanding on the finer points of canonization, but I do know and believe that all of God has said is pure and inerrant in the smallest detail; therefore anything added to the books of Scripture that contain the smallest of errors is not from God; particularly if the other books are from the original manuscripts, which I don’t know.

What else is necessary for salvation, faith, and godly living that is not contained in God’s Living and Enduring Word? You have yet to answer this; i suspect you 'll have to be extremely careful how you answer, which means you will avoid or side-step the question rather than hitting directly as it is asked.

And no, I don’t believe there has been more revelation since the deposit of faith was given by Christ to The Church. What I believe is that Scripture must be accompanied by the authentic inspired body of people who were entrusted to deliver the message within it unto all the world…this accompaniment is not merely intellectual or symbolic…it is a real and present existence of a divinely inspired institution, successive to the apostles themselves. God knows that humans learn from other humans, this is why he inspired MEN and not PENS. The pens wrote the inspired words only because the MEN were inspired. But God never intended, nor is it true that, this select group of inspired humans would cease to exist, cease to accompany the inspired words they wrote, after those words were all written down. Not accepting this fact is your singular most fatal flaw.

Yes, I do trust Him and yes, I try to be a doer. Careful, you’re awfully close to admitting that we have work we MUST DO. The Holy Spirit is certainly a guide for all the faithful, leading us to Christ, and helping us grow in wisdom and understanding. But you take it a step too far, Tanner. You think this gift extends into a capacity for any individual to discover for themselves absolute truths (doctrines) of the faith by guiding them through their reading of Scripture. We’re not to read Scripture in that way. Truth has been revealed…all of it…all the doctrines…they’re not hidden away in Scripture for the lone believer to try to uncover. It’s been with us for 2000 years…it’s no secret. The role the Spirit plays for us regarding Scripture is one of a revealer of the APPLICATION of these revealed truths to our personal, unique lives. We don’t come up with how we’re saved by reading Scripture on our own…that’s been revealed to the Church long ago. Rather, we’re to receive guidance on how to remain in the faith, how to live our lives in cooperation with grace, and largely to simply meditate prayerfully in the word with the Spirit abiding in us. When you try to define dogma yourself when you read, you go against what the Spirit is trying to do with you.

Do you pray to directly to anyone other than God? For example, do you pray to Mary of the Catholic faith" to ask God for you to intercede on your behalf. This is not even close to me asking a brother and sister in Christ to pray to God the Father. To have that same analogy; I would have to pray to my brother or sister to intercede and to pray to God the Father on behalf. Are you being obedient to His command?

Do you call a priest, a spiritual leader in the Catholic Church, “Father” or refer to the Pope as “Holy Father”? Do you follow the command of Jesus concerning this after knowing the truth? We could continue, but i think you get the point; you give lip service IMO. Don’t take my word for it; search the Scriptures to see if it is true.

CONTINUED ON NEXT POST

 

[Tanner9188]

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

And Tanner, scripture does NOT validate itself…and here’s why…

you think that it validates itself because the context of the entire book support a certain theory or statement of the faith…IOW, “such-and-such” is true because the rest of Scripture agrees with it. That’s baloney…because all of the verses and passages are interpretations…the one you are citing directly…as well as the ones you use to support the original one. All of them are interpretations, subject to your own biases and intellect prone to human error. No book, inspired or not, validates itself. People validate things. Things don’t validate things…even if that “thing” is a living sacred text. Something outside of something else must validate that something else.

I suppose in your view and definition of the “Church” you need them to tell you what God has said, thus replacing the “Church”, that which is the role of the Holy Spirit. Whereas the Bible teaches the true church of God, the household of God, is the pillar and support of the truth of the gospel of grace, which is the message from heaven and just as Paul charged Timothy to protect that truth from impurities and support those who adhere to that truth. If God cannot verify what He has said by what He has said, then we have know way of knowing what He has said.

This is not about God’s will for YOUR LIVES. This is about God’s Will for the handling of His Gospel to the world. It is clearly NOT His will to have it misconstrued, twisted and presented falsely. That is what I am warning you about.

This is the type of side stepping i spoke of above; avoiding answering a question directly; because if you know the will of God for your life, the you will certainly increase your odds of getting into heaven.

 

[Tanner9188]

A Catholic, Protestant, or a non-believer can insure heaven for him/herself by simply believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved - Acts 16:31. The moment one does that he is eternally secure by the sealing of the Holy Spirit - Ephesians 1:13. The Lord Jesus Christ did it all on the cross. Salvation is of God; your/my works do not enter into the equation. The god [small ‘g’] of this world will tell you that all of the above is too simple, you must work for your salvation, etc. He is lying to you! I pray that everyone who reads these words has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and is now a joint heir with Him and a child of God eternally.

Praise God for the Bereans; search the Scriptures to see if these things are true!!

 

[Tanner9188]

Quote:
Pardon me for asking this Tanner, but are you adult with a post High School level of education? I don’t want to sound too hard on you here but your lack of depth of reasoning maturity casts considerable doubt on if I am wasting my time here pointing out all the errors. Or is all this superficial insight just arrogance? I know that Jesus told us that God can speak wonders out of the mouth of babes but I think you are caught in the gap somwhere. Just some feedback - you sound like a teenager who is all pumped up with that newer version of that “old time religion” that you might of picked up from a self-styled protestant “preacher” and are just re-parroting in these forums. Is your dad a fundamentalist preacher? Be honest…

Thanks for the mature and Christ-like insults; may I have some more please.

Can dish it out, but not take it tanner Remember the following post to me?
Tanner9188;5501866:

What are you doing here? Are you just young and in your early teens or twenties? I ask because you have no depth in your responses whatsoever. You say read the catechism; I say read the Bible. You have not refuted anything and need James and now Church Militant to assist you; so why are you here? Maybe to learn? Then it would be better to observe rather than to throw out whatever it is you throw out w/o any attempt of support. I’m sure you can lean much about the Roman way if you observe these two and i might also add Guanophore to the list as well.

A woman scorned; I should have listened to my own mother…LOL

I have proven I am able to take many many insults since I have been here; just like the one you are giving now; but I have the full armor of God and do not need to concern myself of the fiery darts thrown at me. It was only a suggestion; you could observe them and learn a great deal about how to actually attempt to defend your faith; you don’t need to follow my advice and I don’t really expect you to nor do I care.

The only advice I would give that would bring joy to my heart would be if you and everyone else would search the Scriptures in regards to what anyone says or teaches to see if they are true…

I’ll let God answer for you; would that be okay?

1 Corinthians 1:25-31 -
"Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, R67 and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”