How does Marian devotion save?

[elts1956]

But he was less inspired than the Church.

Hi. I’ve seen Many sites and prayerbooks say things like “Mary is the salvation of those who invoke her”, or “Pure and immaculate Queen, save me, and deliver me from eternal damnation,” and that wearing the scapular and praying the rosary daily will “save the world.” But what I want to know is, what is the mechanism behind these claims? By what means does devotion to Mary save people? Devotion to and belief in Jesus has obvious means of salvation, but Mary, it’s a little more murky. Anyone know?

Devotion to Mother Mary draws one closer and closer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, to Jesus in the Eucharist. She is a pathway, a guide to graces from her Son. She is the greatest of Saints in the Catholic Church. She is our gentle Mother who wants all of us to revere her Son and constantly reminds us of this. The Rosary is the most powerful weapon outside of the Eucharist to battle Satan and his minions.

 

[elts1956]

Marian devotion doesn’t save, the Church is very clear on this, and any book or site that suggests otherwise is doing a grave disservice. The place of Mary, as of any saint in heaven, is always to lead us to God, to pray for us, and to provide us with an example of a holy life.

This kind of Marian “worship” (what else can one call it?) is not common in Catholicism, but it is out there on the fringe.

Can you provide some examples of these sites? I should add that sometimes Protestants claim the existence of some prayer or other that cannot be found other than on Protestant sites. That is, there is no independent proof that such a prayer actually exists.

We do not “worship” Mary Voci, but we devote ourselves to her and her Son. What son can refuse a Mother? She is the greates of safety nets, if you like, for us. Start saying the Rosay, wear her Immaculate Conception medal and see what happens. I can assure you great change in you will take place.

 

[elts1956]

Marian devotion doesn’t save, the Church is very clear on this, and any book or site that suggests otherwise is doing a grave disservice. The place of Mary, as of any saint in heaven, is always to lead us to God, to pray for us, and to provide us with an example of a holy life.

This kind of Marian “worship” (what else can one call it?) is not common in Catholicism, but it is out there on the fringe.

Can you provide some examples of these sites? I should add that sometimes Protestants claim the existence of some prayer or other that cannot be found other than on Protestant sites. That is, there is no independent proof that such a prayer actually exists.

Jesus didn’t choose Mary, God did. And that doesn’t answer my question to the post i responded to.

So now you are claiming Jesus is not God? Whew!!!

 

[elts1956]

Yes of course. But Jesus didn’t choose Mary. He wasn’t born yet.

Who chose her? God did. Jesus = God. Another mystery our poor finite minds cannot fathom.

 

[elts1956]

Yes of course. But Jesus didn’t choose Mary. He wasn’t born yet.

No.

The Nicene Creed came about centuries after the Incarnation, so I don’t see how that applies.

So the Holy Trinity did not exist until it was created through the Nicene Creed? I think you and I both had better take a break from these threads for awhile. Me, especially to get my eyes uncrossed after reading some of your postings here.

 

[elts1956]

That link is not coherent with official Catholic teaching. I would be surprised if any Catholic thought it was dogma or doctrine. Thanks anyway.

How do you decide for yourself which teaching is official, or not? What “only” sites to you are “coherent official Catholic teaching”?

 

[elts1956]

That link is not coherent with official Catholic teaching. I would be surprised if any Catholic thought it was dogma or doctrine. Thanks anyway.

Mary as Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Graces are not only not infallibly defined, they are also **not **Catholic doctrine.

Regarding the Nicene Creed, again, why do I say “what”? Sorry, I don’t understand your question/concern. Thanks.

You are saying in your comment about the Nicene creed that the Nicene Creed invented the Trinity. Can’t get any clearer than that digger.

 

[antonabe]

Reading some of the posts in this thread gives me the impression that some posts are not made with the intention of seeking the truth.There are certainly Catholic Chistians who have just joined the Church who are confused and want clarifications which we should provide.There are also people who profess other denominations who have an Anti Mary sentiment and their participation here raises certain issues.If they are so convinced that Mary mother of Christ does not warrant the attention of Catholics why are they wasting their time here?Of course we must remember that Satan’s biggest enemy is Mary mother of Jesus stemming from the time of Genesis and thesae people could be the instrumrnts of Satan trying to insert the seed of doubt among the readers of this thread.There is no denying the fact that Mary was the mother of Christ even Muslims and Judaism accept this.We do not say she is God but we venerate her as the greatest of all Saints who is very close to the Son Jesus.We ask for her intercession when we are in want because she was also human and she provides the link between the Human and the Divine

 

[diggerdomer]

True there are apporoval from the local Bishops and consequently by the Vatican in one Category.However these letters of approval from the Vatican are not shown but these should not be difficult to obtain.I will seach for it myself and send it to you,

Don’t send them to me, please share them publicly with everyone on this thread. Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

Do you mean when Mary said “How can this be since I do not know man?”

That was not an objection. Mary, had a right to ask that question, as she was betrothed to Joseph, and knew she was to remain a virgin even after their marriage. Even though the Scripture is not explicit, it is implicit that she is perpetual virgin. , It is a dogma of the Church that she is ever-virgin. It is in the Creed that we say at Mass. In fact, why should she even ask “How can this be since I do not know man”, if she intended to live a married life as others do.

Many will disagree who do not accept the Teaching Authority of the Church. Catholics believe the Church cannot err on matters of faith and doctrine. So, there we are.

I believe Jesus’ promise and in the teachings and Traditions (capital “T”) of the Church.

Excellent Bible exegetes have searched Scripture and can refute the argument that Jesus had brothers and sisters. There is much more, more, and more about Our Blessed Mother, a creature like us, but highly privileged.

That can be read about in Catholic Answers, just do a search for “perpetual virginity of Mary.”

Peace and blessings to all…

Do you really think there’s a significant difference between calling that Bible passage a “question” (which it obviously is) vs. an “objection” (which many could not read otherwise)?

Objections/questions are completely in line with the Scriptural and prophetic tradition, so there is no necessarily negative connotation with the theological idea that Mary “objected” in her “question”.

 

[diggerdomer]

As usual, you are putting your words into someone elses mouth. Is your sole purpose on Earth to come to CAF and confuse those who seek the truth?

To whom are you directing this question, and why specifically? You quoted two people.

 

[diggerdomer]

You are saying in your comment about the Nicene creed that the Nicene Creed invented the Trinity. Can’t get any clearer than that digger.

I never said the Nicene Creed invented the Trinity.

Try again? Clarify? Thanks.

 

[diggerdomer]

So now you are claiming Jesus is not God? Whew!!!

No I never claimed that. Why do you think I did, and/or why do you falsely accuse me of such?

 

[diggerdomer]

So the Holy Trinity did not exist until it was created through the Nicene Creed? I.

That of course is not Catholic teaching, and of course is not what I ever said.

What’s your real point?

 

[diggerdomer]

How do you decide for yourself which teaching is official, or not? What “only” sites to you are “coherent official Catholic teaching”?

I’m referring to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the teaching of the Magisterium from the Vatican and USCCB web sites.

What sources do you look to in order to evaluate links such as the one you refer to? If you know sources other than the Magisterium that would approve such a link, please share. Or even better, if you have any reference as to that site being approved Magisterial teaching I would really appreciate it.

 

[elts1956]

I never said the Nicene Creed invented the Trinity.

Try again? Clarify? Thanks.

Go read over your posts digger. Perhaps you are not as clever as you think.

 

[elts1956]

No I never claimed that. Why do you think I did, and/or why do you falsely accuse me of such?

You said, “Jesus did not create Mary. God did.” Now how is one to translate that?

 

[Ryan_Herft]

Thank you and God Bless you Tomster, you provided an excellent explanation about the God’s perfect plan for Mary The Blessed Virgin, and our Mother. That is the precisely why many millions of Catholics throughout the world honour Mary on Earth, as do the saints and angels in Heaven.

I have read every post on this question and I would like point out that for a person to believe that everything in the bible is ture, is true, but for that person to then say that everything that is not in the bible is false, is false. It would be wise for anti-Catholic and anti Mary posters to bear in mind that what differenciates Catholicism from other Christian religions is that we have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magesterium - the full and complete package - dogmas, doctrines and apostelic succession going back almost 2000 years to Peter, the Rock.

Whether other Christian demonnations like it or not we Catholics will love and honour Mary until the end of time, as wel as in Heaven. I would humbly suggest that If God the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Sprit had a problem with Mary’s many and authenticated apparitions, the Holy Trinity would have asked Mary to “stop it.”. But no, She still keeps calling her children to the Father, through stressing the need for conversion through prayer, sacrifice and keeping the Ten Commandments. I personally believe that Mary is an istrument of salvation, and devotion to her can and will save souls because Mary always leads sinners to Jesus and to God the Father throught her great love and warnings to the world, and through her prayerful intercessions for us.

Moondweller, by your many postings you seem to restrict or contain God’s Plans and His Power to that what’s in the Bible only. What authority does any human being have, or dare to presume what the Father or Jesus can or cannot do! How can we be certain that They do not freely bestow special graces on Mary to dispense to whoever she chooses, to sinners (some who may honour her and have a devotion to Her, and also to those who dont).

To those who seem to delight in having a cheap shot and Mary and her devotees, a bit of generousity and humiluy will go a long way, which will be pleasing to the Father and to Jesus.

I believe it is downright insulting and rude for other Christians to highjack a Catholic Foum such as CAC to carry on with their anti-Mary insults and seek to have Catholics believe that we somehow practice some heresy and elevate Mary to a position that God somehow forbids. Those posters would do well to remember that Marian devotion among Roman Catholics will continue down the ages until the end of time WE LOVE MARY AND WILL ALWAYS HONOUR HER IN A SPECIAL WAY.

OH MARY CONCEIVED WIHTOUT SIN PRAY FOR US WHO HAVE RECOURSE TO THEE.

God Bless

Ryan

 

[Odell]

Paul is not saying that HE is the source of salvation, as all his letters note it is only God who saves. Paul is working for people’s salvation, yes of course.

Please, do quote the CCC that shows where the Catholic Church teaches that salvation comes from someone or something other than God. I look forward to it!

And I am not saying Mary is the source of salvation either! You just as Protestants would tether take me and others out of context when we are using the same language as the bible! You obviously did not bother reading my post Mary does not nor Paul bring others salvation as christ does. But both of them do save in a different manner. Why can you understand this when in scripture but not when a church father says the same of the blessed mother?

 

[moondweller]

And I am not saying Mary is the source of salvation either! You just as Protestants would tether take me and others out of context when we are using the same language as the bible! You obviously did not bother reading my post Mary does not nor Paul bring others salvation as christ does. But both of them do save in a different manner. Why can you understand this when in scripture but not when a church father says the same of the blessed mother?

Paul “saved” people in his day by taking the gospel message of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles (and Jews) to be personally believed unto eternal salvation (Acts 16:31). His time to do that was when he was here on earth. He can no longer do it.

Neither Paul or Mary can “save” anyone in the manner you speak since both of them no longer operate on this earth. Paul was commissioned by Christ to take the gospel to the Gentiles, however Mary was never personally commissioned by Christ for such a task. But no doubt she told individuals in her limited sphere during her life time, just as evangelical Christians do today. But neither Mary or Paul are “saving” anyone in such a manner today. They don’t live here, hence they can speak to no one regarding belief in Christ for eternal life. And nowhere are we told to pray to God to send them back to this earth to spread the Gospel message of belief. This was/is to be done by the generation of believers that presently live on this earth - through the Holy Spirit.

As for all the other things proclaimed of Mary by men, well, men have yet to provide any objective evidence to support their proclamations. You have a right to believe anything you want, but all I’ve been saying on this thread is that you who believe what has been stated of her are doing so apart from any objective evidence: Divine Revelation. No one ever eye witnessed her alleged bodily assumption into heaven, and no one was taken up to witness her alleged coronation as “Queen of Heaven.”

Tradition, by definition, supposedly entails those teachings by the Apostles that were not written in Scripture, but were instead passed down orally. Well, I have yet to see a document where the author directly quotes an Apostle who taught the doctrine of the heavenly intercessory office of Mary. IOW, such teachings simply cannot be traced back to the Apostles in order to prove that such teachings concerning Mary were ever part of “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3b). The fact that they were introduced into your church and eventually accepted as dogma is not the dispute.