How does the Roman Catholic Church View Baptized Protestants? Heretics? or Separated Brethren?

[steve-b]

Thanks! This is helpful. Your response and some of the other responses have been helpful in providing understanding to Trent and Vatican II.

To just expand on a point to the one link you opened up
SECOND VATICAN ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, Declaration on Religious Freedom Dignitatis Humanae, 1 and 2. http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...t-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html

Re: section #1 (all emphasis mine)

"…First, the council professes its belief that God Himself has made known to mankind the way in which men are to serve Him, and thus be saved in Christ and come to blessedness. We believe that this one true religion subsists in the Catholic and Apostolic Church, to which the Lord Jesus committed the duty of spreading it abroad among all men. Thus He spoke to the Apostles: “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, **teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined upon you**” (Matt. 28: 19-20). On their part, all men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and His Church, and to embrace the truth they come to know, and to hold fast to it.

This Vatican Council likewise professes its belief that it is upon the human conscience that these obligations fall and exert their binding force. The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power.

Religious freedom, in turn, which men demand as necessary to fulfill their duty to worship God, has to do with immunity from coercion in civil society. Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.…"

For clarification if one has any questions on the meaning of"subsists in"

Re: “subsist in the Catholic and Apostolic Church” then this should answer it https://www.catholic.com/index.php/qa/why-subsists-in-instead-of-is

I bring this point up, because ecumenical language, in the last 50 years, in the attempt to soften the message, has left some confusions among readers on both sides.

 

[cmjmevans]

Since I was first to discuss I’m giving myself some slack. Plus I thought the first line of my answer was on point. My feelings were correct but not written on concrete

 

[cmjmevans]

I could see were this may have been too concise for understanding. Also the OP implied they didn’t wish to belabor any issues

 

[cmjmevans]

I’m not unhappy with this because Protestants often feel Catholics dream stuff up. We are very consistent contrary to opposing beliefs.

 

[cmjmevans]

My point here was based on the seed of Abraham. It could be misunderstood and more complicated than that, so I withdrew the comment.

 

[DaveBj]

Well, as a Protestant, I am aware that there will be areas of theology that I will disagree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I would be more comfortable if the Catholic Church agreed with me…

Can you elaborate on specifically why my statement above is in disagreement?

Sorry, I responded to the comment without noticing that it was from you. I have erased the post.

D

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I have the greatest respect for Father and he has a very ecumenical bent. I hope and pray that all the good efforts he discusses towards that end succeed.

Thank you but I do not have an “ecumenical bent”…the effort of the various dialogues, concerning which I was asked to be involved, was among those assignments I have held from ecclesiastical authority across the decades of my priesthood. That I would be tasked in that way was a surprise to me.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thanks! This is helpful. Your response and some of the other responses have been helpful in providing understanding to Trent and Vatican II.

It is important to understand that Trent now must be read and understood in the light of Vatican II.

I would counsel you to seek out the advice of your diocese’s office of ecumenical affairs…there you will receive correct answers from authorised people who have both the knowledge and the mandate to speak on issues of ecumenism. One finds here people who have neither of these.

 

[ajcstr]

Wan. Wasn’t there a diagram I recall from another thread with circles for different denominations and how they intersected with the RCC ?

 

[Wannano]

Wan. Wasn’t there a diagram I recall from another thread with circles for different denominations and how they intersected with the RCC ?

I don’t recall seeing that but would find it interesting…

 

[Milt]

The RCC does accept Trinitarian water baptisms as valid. I know this to be true as I know a few people who swam across the Tiber to the Roman side and did not have to be baptized. Their Protestant baptism was considered valid…

When I dragged across the Tiber I was baptized even though I had been baptized in the Methodist church. I do not remember if this was a conditional baptism as it happened 54 years ago at age 11.
When my wife converted her protestant baptism was deemed valid.

 

[ajcstr]

LOL, sometime I really get lucky (or St Anthony is close by) but I actually found it:

This should be interesting to all based on some of the posts here

What is “Full Communion With the Catholic Church”? | Douglas Beaumont

 

[Wannano]

LOL, sometime I really get lucky (or St Anthony is close by) but I actually found it:

This should be interesting to all based on some of the posts here

What is “Full Communion With the Catholic Church”? | Douglas Beaumont

Yes, now I remember seeing it before. It is interesting. Those Catholics who abhore non-Catholics should be referring to them as brothers and sisters in Christ who are in partial communion with the Catholic Church rather than Protestants. But that requires an element of love that has to be genuine not forced.

 

[FollowChrist34]

My answer will be a little controversial but I see Vatican II as trying to ever so gently right the course that was the Council of Trent. Now, you will never hear a Catholic say this in any official capacity. Ever. It simply cannot be so that they would acknowledge this - let’s leave that aside for now. I am a Vatican II Catholic on this issue. You are my separated brethren. However, CAF can get prickly on this one - traditionalist leaning Catholics will go hardcore Council of Trent from time to time. Interestingly, you can find not a few Protestant converts who hang with these folks, which to my mind anyway does not reflect too well on my separated brethren. Good news is there are many Protestants who view me as separated brethren too. I actually believe that most Christians in the West who seriously practice their faith have put this schismatic strife behind us. Except for the Internet and extremists.

 

[ajcstr]

To be honest with you I don’t run across many Catholics who abhore non-catholics. I find more the other way. More importantly, I have heard protestant pastors - big names - outright say that all Catholics are going to Hell. Have never heard a member of the Catholic clergy say something like that about Protestants. Do you see the opposite?

 

[Wannano]

My answer will be a little controversial but I see Vatican II as trying to ever so gently right the course that was the Council of Trent. Now, you will never hear a Catholic say this in any official capacity. Ever. It simply cannot be so that they would acknowledge this - let’s leave that aside for now. I am a Vatican II Catholic on this issue. You are my separated brethren. However, CAF can get prickly on this one - traditionalist leaning Catholics will go hardcore Council of Trent from time to time. Interestingly, you can find not a few Protestant converts who hang with these folks, which to my mind anyway does not reflect too well on my separated brethren. Good news is there are many Protestants who view me as separated brethren too. I actually believe that most Christians in the West who seriously practice their faith have put this schismatic strife behind us. Except for the Internet and extremists.

I really admire your honesty. I think you are right, most people have put it behind us. I deal with many Catholics and here at CAF is where I have been made aware of anti protestantism, not in my real life experience.

 

[Kei]

That brings up a question:
Are sedevacantists in schism or merely in dispute?

Though I feel many would say schism, most of them say they would accept the pope, they just don’t believe that the current pope is pope, and the dispute would be concerning Vatican II.
So I wonder.

 

[Wannano]

To be honest with you I don’t run across many Catholics who abhore non-catholics. I find more the other way. More importantly, I have heard protestant pastors - big names - outright say that all Catholics are going to Hell. Have never heard a member of the Catholic clergy say something like that about Protestants. Do you see the opposite?

I have witnessed far more anti-Protestant venom here on CAF than I ever did in real life. As a western Canadian I am not subjected to the American mega church Protestant evangelists that much. Only by watching TV and I usually end up shutting them off.

I have never attended a church service where I have been subjected to anything anti-Catholic in a derogatory way. Sometimes reference is made to the Reformation and related items.

I cannot say I have heard Catholic clergy put down Protestants in any service I have been to. I have said before that the communities I associate in have very good Catholic/Protestant relationships.

 

[Vonsalza]

To be honest with you I don’t run across many Catholics who abhore non-catholics. I find more the other way.

Oh man, as someone who was a protestant for decades, this is so spot-on.

As a Baptist, I heard way, way, waaaaaaaay more anti-catholic rhetoric than I hear anti-protestant rhetoric now that I’m a catholic. It’s really not even comparable.

 

[Vonsalza]

I have witnessed far more anti-Protestant venom here on CAF than I ever did in real life.

I’ll agree here, but in the “Non-Catholic Religions” section of a Catholic forum, did you not expect a little apologetics?
Come now…

In my years attending mass, I’ve not heard an explicitly anti-protestant comment once. Now as a prot for decades, I heard anti-catholic jabs in-church absolutely all the time.

It’s arguably part of the evangelical identity, being “not-catholic”. You certainly see proof of it when any particular sect tries to trace their roots back to the 1st century church without using the papists! The explanation get very fanciful and devoid of real history.