How evolution undermines Salvation

[drpmjhess]

Ok, drpmjhess, one more tonight…noone has a problem with gravity, but a better understanding may arise that radically changes our understanding of why it does what it does. Give me (well, the others as I cant spend this time everynight with you all) a real controversy, smartaleck. That was weak.

Foolishmortal, I’m glad you caught the tongue-in-cheek nature of my last post! I was afraid you were going to take me seriously and begin campaigning against the unobservable force of gravity.

I’ll give you a real controversy when I find one. There is no controversy about evolution, except in the minds of those ignorant of how biological science works. That’s why in the US school we don’t respond to the cry by creationists to “teach the controversy” – because it is imaginary!

Best wishes on your work in Korea!

Petrus

 

[foolishmortal]

We observe a force acting on us when we take to the air. The only thing that comes from old bones is that some lizards and maybe a mammal or two got smaller and what we cab gain from petri dishes is some species get fancier. Some of those creatures in categories within the species didn’t make the adjustment. Creationists don’t have a problem with that although the age of the Earth has ones within Creationism debating that speciofically. We do not see a species turn into another. Findings cannot prove it. If it is likely that happened, it remains at likely.

We see crop circles in weird designs.  Noone hears a thing.  Some say they see lights in the sky and call into Coast to Coast AM, but you guys don't seem to give them an ear.  It's obvious something intelligent is making them and I don't think that even nature worshippers or occultists are doing that.   Aliens are the most likely possibility, but we have not seen it happen.  It is happening in modern times, but noone has a clue despite our modern science--unless the world governments have scientists hiding alien DNA.  Could it be the battleline markings of an unseen battle between spiritual forces?  Are they marking their territories?  Were they doing it with the Nazca lines centuries ago?  That is more interesting to me anyway.  It has debates of its own, I'm sure.

Thanks for the well-wishing! I get lit up in these discussions. Sorry about any unChristian comments of my past. That is one reason I should not go here. It beats more fruitless ways to waste time when I should be praying–like watching old videos and tv shows on Youtube.

Take care!
Phil

 

[buffalo]

Foolishmortal, I wonder why public schools keep forcing the theory of gravity down our childrens’ throats. No one has ever observed gravity; we only observe things falling down. There is the perfectly serviceable pre-Newtonian view that Christians could hold, namely, the Aristotelian view that all things have a “natural place” – heavy things naturally fall downward, toward the center of the universe. Or, there is the voluntarist theological view that God wills all things to fall down. We should give equal time in physics classes to these three alternative explanations for why things fall down instead of up. Teach the controversy; teach more science, not less, and for God’s sake, don’t expel alternative science from the classroom as the dogmatic Darwinists are doing in biology.

Petrus

I guess they keep forcing it down our throats because when we eat gravity moves it down as it did in the past and as it will in the future.

 

[drpmjhess]

I guess they keep forcing it down our throats because when we eat gravity moves it down as it did in the past and as it will in the future.

No, you’ve never observed gravity moving the food down. The food does go down (most of the time), but we don’t know why. Newton postulated a mysterious force named “gravity” that acts upon bodies, but we’ve never seen it.
Petrus

 

[drpmjhess]

We see crop circles in weird designs. Noone hears a thing. Some say they see lights in the sky and call into Coast to Coast AM, but you guys don’t seem to give them an ear.
Take care!
Phil

Phil, I haven’t seen crop circles discussed on CAF. Why don’t you start a thread? I admit am skeptical, but I find the phenomenon interesting, and recently met a scholar at a conference who has done extensive research into it, so much that she believes no one person or team could be responsible for all the circles.

My doubt about aliens being responsible stems from the fact that interstellar distances are simply to vast for any credible proposal of feasible travel between stars. At known speeds, it would take thousands of years to get here, and they just want to befuddle us with mysterious crop designs? Still, I find the issue interesting, even if mainly because of the psychology predisposing human agents to make the patterns.

I share your temptation for Youtube

Petrus!

 

[buffalo]

No, you’ve never observed gravity moving the food down. The food does go down (most of the time), but we don’t know why. Newton postulated a mysterious force named “gravity” that acts upon bodies, but we’ve never seen it.
Petrus

Correct - we have never seen it. However, it is predictable and repeatable.

 

[The_Barbarian]

This is why evolutionary theory is considered more reliable than gravity. We have seen evolution, and we’ve seen gravity. But we can also explain why evolution works, but we can’t yet explain why gravity works.

 

[drpmjhess]

This is why evolutionary theory is considered more reliable than gravity. We have seen evolution, and we’ve seen gravity. But we can also explain why evolution works, but we can’t yet explain why gravity works.

Quite true.

 

[reggieM]

Newton gave us the law of universal gravity 300 years ago:

Every point mass attracts every other point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses

That law is still accurate today while the theory of evolution continues to go through radical changes.

 

[steveandersen]

Newton gave us the law of universal gravity 300 years ago:

That law is still accurate today while the theory of evolution continues to go through radical changes.

radical changes

please give an example of a recent radical change

and as to the old “law v theory” chestnut, here is a quote form one of my favorite web sites
*
A theory does not change into a scientific law with the accumulation of new or better evidence. A theory will always be a theory, a law will always be a law. A theory will never become a law, and a law never was a theory.

A scientific law is a description of an observed phenomenon. Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motion are a good example. Those laws describe the motions of planets. But they do not explain why they are that way. If all scientists ever did was to formulate scientific laws, then the universe would be very well- described, but still unexplained and very mysterious.

A theory is a scientific explanation of an observed phenomenon. Unlike laws, theories actually explain why things are the way they are. Theories are what science is for. If, then, a theory is a scientific explanation of a natural phenomena, ask yourself this: “What part of that definition excludes a theory from being a fact?” The answer is nothing! There is no reason a theory cannot be an actual fact as well.

The common misconception is that if a budding young scientific theory gets quote “proven” unquote, it graduates and becomes a scientific law. As you see above, theories and laws are two different things. Even worse, it is impossible to prove a scientific theory. *

 

[wildleafblower]

This is why evolutionary theory is considered more reliable than gravity. We have seen evolution, and we’ve seen gravity. But we can also explain why evolution works, but we can’t yet explain why gravity works.

EVOLUTION is a fact and that theory does not contain the word God in it. And Barbarian. we sure can explain why gravity works otherwise NASA Scientist John C. Mather who won the 2006 Nobel Physics Prize wouldn’t have been able to claim, “Also, COBE discovered slight temperature variations of approximately 10 parts per million in this relatively uniform light. These variations pointed to density differences which, through gravity over the course of billions of years, gave rise to the stars, galaxies and hierarchal structure we see today.”
http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20061003/DCTU04103102006-1.html
sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20061003/DCTU04103102006-1.html

 

[The_Barbarian]

And Barbarian. we sure can explain why gravity works otherwise NASA Scientist John C. Mather who won the 2006 Nobel Physics Prize wouldn’t have been able to claim, “Also, COBE discovered slight temperature variations of approximately 10 parts per million in this relatively uniform light. These variations pointed to density differences which, through gravity over the course of billions of years, gave rise to the stars, galaxies and hierarchal structure we see today.”

That merely shows how it works. We still don’t know why it works.

 

[hecd2]

Newton gave us the law of universal gravity 300 years ago:

Corrected in 1915

That law is still accurate today

Wrong!

while the theory of evolution continues to go through radical changes.

Like what, for example? Make sure your example is not some minor detail, but a major tenet, at least equivalent to the modification of Newtonian mechanics by GR.

Why don’t you go away and do an elementary course in science to avoid making a repeated fool of yourself?

Alec

 

[drpmjhess]

EVOLUTION is a fact and that theory does not contain the word God in it.]

Evolution is not a fact, but an excellent theory that explains the facts. of species diversity Gravity is not a fact, but an excellent theory that explains the fact of falling. Plate tectonics is a theory that explains the facts of volcanoes and earthquakes in terms of continental drift, sea floor spreading, and plate faulting.

 

[wildleafblower]

Evolution is not a fact, but an excellent theory that explains the facts. of species diversity Gravity is not a fact, but an excellent theory that explains the fact of falling. Plate tectonics is a theory that explains the facts of volcanoes and earthquakes in terms of continental drift, sea floor spreading, and plate faulting.

Peter Hess (drpmjhess), Nobel laureate and Pontifical Academy of Sciences ACADEMICIAN Christian DE DUVE (1) of Christian de Duve Institute of Cellular Pathology mentioned that EVOLUTION is a fact. And we sure can explain why gravity works otherwise NASA Scientist John C. Mather who won the 2006 Nobel Physics Prize wouldn’t have been able to claim, “Also, COBE discovered slight temperature variations of approximately 10 parts per million in this relatively uniform light. These variations pointed to density differences which, through gravity over the course of billions of years, gave rise to the stars, galaxies and hierarchal structure we see today.”
sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20061003/DCTU04103102006-1.html
http://sev.prnewswire.com/aerospace-defense/20061003/DCTU04103102006-1.html

 

[The_Barbarian]

The common misconception is that if a budding young scientific theory gets quote “proven” unquote, it graduates and becomes a scientific law. As you see above, theories and laws are two different things. Even worse, it is impossible to prove a scientific theory.

Well said.

Laws frequently generate theories. Kepler’s laws, which describe the motions of planets about the sun, were explained by Newton in his theory of gravity, which made gravity applicable to any object with mass.

 

[drpmjhess]

Christian DE DUVE (1) of Christian de Duve Institute of Cellular Pathology mentioned that EVOLUTION is a fact.

Theories and facts lie on different epistemic levels. Facts are what we observe – populations experience genetic drift over time-- and theories are what we come up with to explain this change – species change through a process we call evolution.

 

[steveandersen]

Evolution is not a fact, but an excellent theory that explains the facts. of species diversity

evolution is both a fact i.e observations of comon descent

and a theory i.e. natural selection

 

[wildleafblower]

Thanks Steve for coming to my rescue. I appreciate it. You are a little bit of paradise on earth. You are SMART and always add a fresh perspective.

 

[buffalo]

Theories and facts lie on different epistemic levels. Facts are what we observe – populations experience genetic drift over time-- and theories are what we come up with to explain this change – species change through a process we call evolution.

Is this evolution always upward? Can it also go downward? - are all mutations beneficial?