How evolution undermines Salvation

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Science is not needed to justify creationism; it’s just shows the proof of it.

It’s easy to act all cool when the “science” of people like you, or so you think it is of you, is supported by society, but truth changes things eventually. Just because organized religion wasn’t practiced up on its game when this change of power happened, probably never believing evolutionists would gain any ground (but then the '60s, the biggest age of appeasement for the liberals, happened to many churches and traditional Catholics and Fundamentalists had to pick up the baton dropped by the Catholic and Protestant churches, respectively), so it will happen to haughty macro-evolution adherents who think they hold all the cards forever.

Our priest told us about the museum with the gorilla or ape handing a person a twig. Are you accusing him of lying? Traditionalist priests wouldn’t lie and he could not be mistaken, as could happen if he were getting philosophical. If scientists need icons to promote a science, it’s not a science, but a part of religion.

I’m getting off this. You believe what you want to believe. A conclusion is where people stop thinking, Steven Wright said. That is where origin of species field of science is now. It my make microevolutionary changes, but it’s glued into one spot by special interests and pride. Noone, even scientists who used to believe in macroevolution, can argue with you guys and seem credible to you. It’s a shame, but it’s fallen nature.
 
Science is not needed to justify creationism; it’s just shows the proof of it.
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How about showing us some of that “proof?”
It’s easy to act all cool when the “science” of people like you, or so you think it is of you, is supported by society,
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Evidence. Science depends on evidence.
Just because organized religion wasn’t practiced up on its game when this change of power happened, probably never believing evolutionists would gain any ground
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The revolution occured in the late 1800s. It was over by 1900.
(but then the '60s, the biggest age of appeasement for the liberals, happened to many churches and traditional Catholics and Fundamentalists had to pick up the baton dropped by the Catholic and Protestant churches, respectively), so it will happen to haughty macro-evolution adherents who think they hold all the cards forever.
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I’m still confident that the Catholic Church is trustworthy as a source of authority.
Our priest told us about the museum with the gorilla or ape handing a person a twig. Are you accusing him of lying?
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Never heard of it. Are you accusing me of lying? The way to resolve it, is to see if we can find any evidence. I have a picture somewhere, of a chimp handing something to Jane Goodall, so it’s not outside the realm of possibility. Ask your priest where we can see it, and get back to us.
Traditionalist priests wouldn’t lie
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No one is exempt from sin. Since I know of the case with Jane Goodall, what do you think the implication of an ape handing a human something might be?

I see you’ve decided to drop the issue, so I guess that’s where it will end.
 
No, there’s no point to it. There’s no point to anything. It’s all random chance, remember?
 
Darwin’s great discovery was that it wasn’t all random chance. I thought you knew.
 
He’s right. There are animals that have more strength than humans. Bears, anyone?
Anyway, what’s wrong with the idea that animals have adapted to their environments?
 
rocklobster said:
He’s right. There are animals that have more strength than humans. Bears, anyone?
Anyway, what’s wrong with the idea that animals have adapted to their environments?
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To follow on Wolsely’s good reminder …

There is no right or wrong. Evolution knows best what to do. Trust in natural selection and random mutation … or so it is given to us to believe.
 
Reggie’s take on science:
There is no right or wrong. Evolution knows best what to do. Trust in natural selection and random mutation … or so it is given to us to believe.
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Maybe it’s good that some people don’t accept evolution, at least until they learn that there is no moral principle to be found in it.

I have often suspected that many creationists imagine that scientists have accepted evolution, because they want it that way. This post of Reggie’s reinforces that idea.

As usual, ignorance is the enemy.
 
The_Barbarian said:
Reggie’s take on science:

Maybe it’s good that some people don’t accept evolution, at least until they learn that there is no moral principle to be found in it.

I have often suspected that many creationists imagine that scientists have accepted evolution, because they want it that way. This post of Reggie’s reinforces that idea.

As usual, ignorance is the enemy.
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As usual, slogans are the enemy. Anyone with half a brain who comes here would notice the constant, daily, “just say yes to evolution” rhetoric and realize, “Hey, if it’s so obvious and so scientific and easy enough for a teenager to understand, what is actually going on here?” What is actually going on here is a commitment to spreading the gospel of evolution to everyone precisely because of how this science affects people’s lives.

And to say that “science,” that great, self-correcting, always moving forward concept, is somehow living in this pure place where no mortal shall contemplate it in any other way than say, mathematics, is nonsense. Just google “culture war” to find out what I’m talking about.

On other Christian forums with less strict moderation, those who disagree with the evolutionary gospel are slammed, sometimes viciously, not for their lack of understanding but for their belief in a book of fairy tales and an invisible man in the sky. That’s what it always comes down to when someone does not say yes to evolution. It doesn’t matter if you slaughter animals in arcane rituals, as long as you believe in evolution, you are OK.

For Catholics who want to follow Church teaching, textbook evolution is not the whole answer, divine providence is. But the "evolution is a fact’ crowd also want to reinterpret parts of the Bible, ignoring the Magisterium.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
As usual, slogans are the enemy. Anyone with half a brain who comes here would notice the constant, daily, “just say yes to evolution” rhetoric and realize, “Hey, if it’s so obvious and so scientific and easy enough for a teenager to understand, what is actually going on here?”
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These things usually follow a pattern, Ed. Several years ago, Dave Armstrong pinned down some strident Darwinists on the Straight Dope site and asked a very simple question, over and over again. None of them ever did give him an answer; all they did was tell him how unscientific and obviously ignorant he was.

He responded by suggesting that since they wouldn’t answer his question, it was likely that they didn’t have an answer, and then they piled on the invective, the insults, the name-calling, the usual standard procedure that inevitably follows when someone questions Darwinism. I have seen this same tactic used over and over and over again, by everybody from high school teachers to molecular biologists with doctorates: don’t discuss variant scientific evidence, just shout down your opponent and call him names, because he dares to disagree with Darwin. (shrug)

Read through it some time when you have a few minutes. It’s really quite enlightening and amusing.

socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/03/dialogue-on-materialist-evolutionary.html
 
Thank you, very much, for the link. I recently got this reply at another site: “Teenagers on crack get evolution and you don’t?”

God bless,
Ed
 
You’re very welcome, Ed. 🙂 If you’re interested, go to Dave’s site (socrates58.blogspot.com/) and type “evolution Darwinism” into the search engine; there are three pages worth of superlative articles there.

There’s a lot of other really good stuff there, too, if you’re interested in apologetics. Just scroll down a ways until you hit the main menu.
 
Yes, thanks for that link Wolseley – that’s a very informative discussion (I have to finish the whole thing). I like Dave Armstrong. He’s one of the best Catholic apologists I’ve seen.

The Darwinists really tried his patience there – but he just persisted very nicely.
 
Barbarian observes:
Darwin’s great discovery was that it wasn’t all random chance. I thought you knew.
You’re saying it was designed, then?
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No. Many things occur non-randomly that are not designed. God, being omniscient, created the universe without designing it. He had no need to figure anything out.
I thought that was the idea you people were fighting so hard against.
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You’ve confused “non-random” with “designed.” The religion of Intelligent Design depends on this confusion.
 
Barbarian observes:
I have often suspected that many creationists imagine that scientists have accepted evolution, because they want it that way. This post of Reggie’s reinforces that idea.

As usual, ignorance is the enemy.
As usual, slogans are the enemy.
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It’s very true, Reggie. You, for example, seem to think that’s the case.
Anyone with half a brain who comes here would notice the constant, daily, “just say yes to evolution” rhetoric
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Another faked quote from Reggie. Is anyone here surprised?
And to say that “science,” that great, self-correcting, always moving forward concept, is somehow living in this pure place where no mortal shall contemplate it in any other way than say, mathematics, is nonsense. Just google “culture war” to find out what I’m talking about.
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Obviously, you’ve not talked to any scientists, or even attended any scientific conferences. You have a very odd idea of the way science is done, Reggie.
It doesn’t matter if you slaughter animals in arcane rituals, as long as you believe in evolution, you are OK.
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Sounds a little paranoid to me, Reggie.
For Catholics who want to follow Church teaching, textbook evolution is not the whole answer, divine providence is.
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I’m glad you finally agree, Reggie. Rember when I told you science couldn’t tell you about God?
But the "evolution is a fact’ crowd also want to reinterpret parts of the Bible, ignoring the Magisterium.
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As you learned earlier, there is nothing in the Magisterium that supports or denies evolution, and none except Genesis that denies YE creationism. If you want to be a creationist, you may. But the Church will not support your belief.
 
I wrote that, not Reggie. The Catholic Church does not believe in unguided evolution. From “Human Persons Created in the Image of God” Part 69:

“An unguide evolutionary process - one that falls outside the bounds of divine providence - simply cannot exist…”

God bless,
Ed
 
Thanks for explaining that to Barbarian, Ed.

I’m afraid that he wasn’t making very accurate observations in his response. 🙂
 
The_Barbarian said:
Many things occur non-randomly that are not designed…You’ve confused “non-random” with “designed.” The religion of Intelligent Design depends on this confusion.
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Okay, so:

“non-random” = “undesigned”

“random” = “designed”

Is that the case?

And by the way, as I believe I have mentioned before, I am neither a creationist nor an adherent of intelligent design; I am a Confirmed Skeptic of Darwinian Theory.
 
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