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Bahman
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There is a difference between knowledge and foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is knowledge of what will happen in future for sure. A person with foreknowledge hence cannot have free will.
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Bahman
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I am sorry that I cannot make the argument simpler than this: Jesus lives in time. He has foreknowledge. Foreknowledge dictate what is going to happen. This means that he does what he is supposed to. He cannot do otherwise.Jesus knew what he had to do. Even so, he did ask the Father if the cup could pass? But he freely willed to do what he had to do. His Father’s will was his will. Just because Jesus knew what would happen, he dreaded the death on the cross. But he freely willed to do it to save all mankind. So I really don’t have clue what you are talking about.
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GodsGrace154
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Do you watch Star Trek?
I used to love that series. So far ahead of its time. I’m talking about the GOOD ONE. The ORIGINAL ONE. Not that stuff that came afterwards.
So in one episode Kirk actually does go into the future and changes it by coming back and doing something differently.
Now, if Captain Kirk can do that, don’t you think God could??
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Oh. And he did it because he KNEW the future, had FOREKNOWLEDGE, but wanted to CHANGE IT. Interesting.
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Bahman
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No, I think that a person with foreknowledge cannot act against his/her foreknowledge.
That is correct.
This is off topic but yes we always pick up the best option from a set of prioritized option, so called situation. Do you act differently?
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Bahman
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I don’t think that we, including God, can do something against logic.
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Bahman
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So you believe that foreknowledge can be changed? How that could be knowledge then?
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GodsGrace154
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GodsGrace154
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You see Bahman, WE understand YOU.
What YOU don’t seem to understand is that God is what He is.
Whatever he wants to do He can do.
Remember I had said how He has some Grand Plan in mind?
He’s working toward that Grand Plan. Is this knowledge? Is this foreknowledge?
What is it, in your opinion?
And in deciding that Grand Plan, Did God have any free will to decide WHAT it would be?
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LethalMouse
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I am seriously considering you don’t know what knowledge means…
KNOWLEDGE is information you possess and its only relevance to what you do is what you CHOOSE to apply it to or do with it. Like you know many things… I doubt you always act in accordance…or are you perfect?
I think what you think is that a theoretically perfect person lacks will. So if you are given a situation where you can choose to steal stuff but you ALWAYS don’t because you don’t roll like that…then according to you you lack free will. Of course this is not a lack of free will, it is simply a CONSISTENT will.
You I take it think that in order to have free will one must have Bipolar disorder and be a lunatic always zigging and zagging their choices… pills and therapy bro.
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Vico
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No, that presupposes a-series. B-series there is no foreknowledge, since all is present, but is ordered.
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CHRISTINE77
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Why? How does having foreknowledge make one incapable of changing their future?
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CHRISTINE77
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We all have foreknowledge of our own deaths, but that doesn’t stop most of us acting like there is no tomorrow.
By the same token, if someone does not have foreknowledge can they change their fate?
Is foreknowledge the magic bean that makes a person incapable of changing their fate?
That just seems silly.
Jesus knew what his fate was, but he could have rebelled. He didn’t because he was in perfect alignment with the will of his father.
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Bahman
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I think he has a purpose hence what he does is logical.
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Bahman
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Thank you for clarification.
That is the place that we differ. I believe that God cannot do something which is logically impossible.
I don’t see any sign of grand plan when I look at the glob.
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LethalMouse
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You limit God to your logic. That is like a flea saying they can determine what a human can choose to do. God in a sense can not do something illogical, that is because if he does it it is therefore logical… basically he is the metric for logic. If you view him as illogical, then it’d be you who was illogical. But God not being illogical is not a limit of God but a limit of logic ie: God IS the standard. He therefore cannot break the standard because it would move with him.
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CHRISTINE77
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Here’s another example of your faulty logic.
A person knows (has foreknowledge) they have a kind of cancer that will ultimately lead to their death. Do they accept their fate, or do they try do to anything in their power to avoid death?
Many would freely choose to try to stop their fate, although they know they cannot. Others would freely choose to accept their fate. The outcome and the foreknowledge is the same in both cases.
So people can freely choose to do what they want, even when they have foreknowledge.
Jesus could have done otherwise. He CHOSE not to.
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GodsGrace154
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To us it doesn’t seem logical.
This is the whole point.
We don’t reason as God does…
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GodsGrace154
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Very good example!Here’s another example of your faulty logic.
A person knows (has foreknowledge) they have a kind of cancer that will ultimately lead to their death. Do they accept their fate, or do they try do to anything in their power to avoid death?
Many would freely choose to try to stop their fate, although they know they cannot. Others would freely choose to accept their fate. The outcome and the foreknowledge is the same in both cases.
So people can freely choose to do what they want, even when they have foreknowledge.
Jesus could have done otherwise. He CHOSE not to.
I’d refer to God Father though. Jesus was limited in what He knew.
GG
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Bahman
Guest
I don’t understand how foreknowledge is not possible in B-series.
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