How God could have free will if he is omniscient?

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Bahman said:
You cannot do otherwise because that is what your knowledge dictate you.
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All your statements below show that you are very confused. We get confused when we deal with concepts that are much beyond what we could handle. God is one of them. We could philosophize about this, that and the other thing. Priests study philosophy too - it’s helpful. But they know they will NEVER understand GOD. He is not understandable.

Now. God cannot do otherwise because His knowledge dictates what is to come -
WHO decided what is to come? (I’ve asked you this before).
Was it not God who decided? Does this not mean that He had a choice? Was He, the creator of the universe, not free to decide from between the choices?

I think what you’re saying here is: Is God’s foreknowledge causation? Does the fact that God KNOWS what is going to happen, CAUSE it to happen?
Now this is an interesting question, but it has nothing to do with free will.
There is no free choice available. You know that you do X at specific time so you have to do it.
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WHO told me to do X???
I thought God was the ultimate being…
Of course no because he could see in foreknowledge that he would do it.
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He “saw” in the future that He would create the universe because He decided that He wanted to create it.

You’re making this too difficult.
No, I don’t believe that we have free will. What is the meaning of free will when we always choose what we prefer?
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Bahman,
This is what I mean about you being confused:

IF you are CHOOSING what you prefer, it means you have the choice between two things. It means you have FREE WILL to choose.

Free will implies that you have a choice between two things. If you have a choice, it means you can choose. If you can choose it means you have free will.
I think we are rational animal and always do what our rationality dictate us.
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Bad boy. Go stand in the corner.

We are not animals. We are made in the image of God. We have a little bit of God in us.
I refer you again to Genesis 1:27

Now get out of the corner and get back to reading your bible.

GG
 
GodsGrace154 said:
It’s related to our discussion because you’re saying that God has no free will because He’s omniscient.

In this one sentence it’s proving that:

GOD FATHER has free will
GOD SON has free will

Because Jesus is clearly saying:

Not MY WILL (God Son’s will) but YOU’RE WILL (God Father’s will) be done.

God Father, at this point in Jesus life, still had omniscience, and He always will have it.
God Son, at this point in Jesus’ life didn’t have omniscience…

BUT THEY BOTH HAD FREE WILL
One didn’t know the future (Jesus)
And one did (Father God)

IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE! THEY BOTH HAD FREE WILL, EVEN GOD FATHER WHO KNOWS THE FUTURE.

Sorry for the loud volume - but it’s like you don’t reply to what I’m saying.
It’s like you read about this somewhere and have put it forth as theory.

Stop theorizing AND BELIEVE.
You won’t ever understand God. You’d have to be God to understand God.

GG
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You cannot use a verse from Bible to prove anything in a philosophical discussion.
 
Bahman said:
You cannot use a verse from Bible to prove anything in a philosophical discussion.
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Which book should I use?
We’re talking about God - not the train hitting the 100 people concept.

Do you think we could use Aquinas? He was one of the best philosophers ever. Vico used him, but you turned that down too.

So what am I supposed to use to prove that GOD has free will?

We’re not talking about MAN having free will. That would be different.

See Bahman, God is in the bible. And that’s ALL we know about Him.

Make believe I didn’t use scripture. YOU brought up Jesus. So Jesus spoke as to the will of the Father and His own will.

NOW will you accept it?

No. I didn’t think so.

Keep reading the bible. It’s the only way you’ll get to know God.

GG
 
GodsGrace154 said:
All your statements below show that you are very confused. We get confused when we deal with concepts that are much beyond what we could handle. God is one of them. We could philosophize about this, that and the other thing. Priests study philosophy too - it’s helpful. But they know they will NEVER understand GOD. He is not understandable.
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I am not confused. That is you who don’t understand me.
GodsGrace154 said:
Now. God cannot do otherwise because His knowledge dictates what is to come -
WHO decided what is to come? (I’ve asked you this before).
Was it not God who decided? Does this not mean that He had a choice? Was He, the creator of the universe, not free to decide from between the choices?
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All I am saying is that God has no free will if he is omniscient. It is in fact very simple to imagine it. Foreknowledge dictate what you are doing to do because you know what is going to happen.
GodsGrace154 said:
I think what you’re saying here is: Is God’s foreknowledge causation? Does the fact that God KNOWS what is going to happen, CAUSE it to happen?
Now this is an interesting question, but it has nothing to do with free will.
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I think if God knows what will happen then it happens. What does foreknowledge mean? If foreknowledge is related to God’s action then God does it otherwise foreknowledge is fake.
 
Bahman said:
Jesus live in time.
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Jesus Christ the Son of God has both divine nature (timeless) and the assumed human nature.

Additionally, the use of the b-theory of time, God knows everything in its ordering but without time; time is an illusion.
 
GodsGrace154 said:
Which book should I use?
We’re talking about God - not the train hitting the 100 people concept.

Do you think we could use Aquinas? He was one of the best philosophers ever. Vico used him, but you turned that down too.

So what am I supposed to use to prove that GOD has free will?

We’re not talking about MAN having free will. That would be different.

See Bahman, God is in the bible. And that’s ALL we know about Him.

Make believe I didn’t use scripture. YOU brought up Jesus. So Jesus spoke as to the will of the Father and His own will.

NOW will you accept it?

No. I didn’t think so.

Keep reading the bible. It’s the only way you’ll get to know God.

GG
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You should use logic as I use it. My claim is very simple. God has foreknowledge which means that he knows what will happen in future. If we apply foreknowledge to God actions then we know what God is going to do. In simple word, he is forced to do it hence he has no free will.
 
Vico said:
Jesus Christ the Son of God has both divine nature (timeless) and the assumed human nature.

Additionally, the use of the b-theory of time, God knows everything in its ordering but without time; time is an illusion.
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Dose Jesus have foreknowledge?
 
Bahman said:
You should use logic as I use it. My claim is very simple. God has foreknowledge which means that he knows what will happen in future. If we apply foreknowledge to God actions then we know what God is going to do. In simple word, he is forced to do it hence he has no free will.
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Logic. How’s this for logic? :
  1. Humans have lungs.
  2. Lungs are fragile.
  3. Humans smoke cigarettes.
  4. Cigarettes have nicotine.
  5. Nicotine is poison.
  6. Human gets lung cancer.
  7. Cancer is caused by smoking because smoking has nicotine thus the cancer is caused by smoking.
Is this logical?

NO: Because the person in question NEVER SMOKED. He got cancer anyway.

GOD IS NOT LOGICAL. Is he? GOD IS GOD.

I’m outta here.

Keep reading your bible.

GG
 
Bahman said:
The problem is that how you could be free in a situation when you know what you have to do because you are omniscient.
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God freely wills things to happen. Through his omnipotence, He knows what is the best thing to will for His creation. He’s God - what else can I say? He knows all, He wills all, He can do anything and everything.
 
GodsGrace154 said:
Logic. How’s this for logic? :
  1. Humans have lungs.
  2. Lungs are fragile.
  3. Humans smoke cigarettes.
  4. Cigarettes have nicotine.
  5. Nicotine is poison.
  6. Human gets lung cancer.
  7. Cancer is caused by smoking because smoking has nicotine thus the cancer is caused by smoking.
Is this logical?

NO: Because the person in question NEVER SMOKED. He got cancer anyway.

GOD IS NOT LOGICAL. Is he? GOD IS GOD.

I’m outta here.

Keep reading your bible.

GG
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Why you bother to discuss if you believe that God is not logical.
 
Bahman said:
It is very simple. Jesus lives in time. He has foreknowledge. Foreknowledge dictate what is going to happen. This means that he knows what he is going to do. He cannot do otherwise.
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I know I am going to go to work tommmorrow (baring external forces) do i not have free will?

I know many things I will do before I do them… so I can only pressume I am a robot devoid of free will.
 
Bahman said:
It is very simple. Jesus lives in time. He has foreknowledge. Foreknowledge dictate what is going to happen. This means that he knows what he is going to do. He cannot do otherwise.
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Jesus knew what he had to do. Even so, he did ask the Father if the cup could pass? But he freely willed to do what he had to do. His Father’s will was his will. Just because Jesus knew what would happen, he dreaded the death on the cross. But he freely willed to do it to save all mankind. So I really don’t have clue what you are talking about.:confused:
 
Bahman said:
You cannot do otherwise because that is what your knowledge dictate you.

There is no free choice available. You know that you do X at specific time so you have to do it.
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You honestly believe that human beings cannot act against what they know is right?

You honestly believe that human beings do not choose to default on their responsibilities?
Bahman said:
Of course no because he could see in foreknowledge that he would do it.
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This would seem to indicate you believe that God cannot choose to see something different in His foreknowledge.
Bahman said:
No, I don’t believe that we have free will. What is the meaning of free will when we always choose what we prefer?

I think we are rational animal and always do what our rationality dictate us.
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Well this seems to be the root of the problem you are having understanding the nature of God and man. If you believe that human beings always choose what they prefer, and always act in accordance to what rationality dictates then you have a very narrow and uninformed perspective on how people operate.

It may be that you are not a very keen observer of human behavior, your own, or anyone elses.
 
Bahman said:
Why you bother to discuss if you believe that God is not logical.
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Perhaps a better way to say it is that God is not limited only to logic,and sometimes does things that seem contrary logic.

Catholics discuss these things because we believe God is beyond logic, and human logic will only take us so far in knowing HIm.
 
guanophore said:
Perhaps a better way to say it is that God is not limited only to logic,and sometimes does things that seem contrary logic.

Catholics discuss these things because we believe God is beyond logic, and human logic will only take us so far in knowing HIm.
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Exactly. 🙂 You cannot “rationalize” God. God is way beyond human reason. We can catch a glimpse or a glimmering of God now and then, but mostly we are blind to His awesomeness.
 
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