How God could have free will if he is omniscient?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bahman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
GodsGrace154 said:
My favorite was Aquinas. I answer…
But they weren’t trying to understand God, they were trying to understand About God.
Priests are required to take 2 to 3 years of Philosophy. Of course it helps.
But it still doesn’t let you understand God.
We will never understand God.
He’s above our pay scale.

BTW, interesting that you answered the above and not my question to you on miracles.
But nobody really knows about those either - just something interesting to ponder.

GG
Click to expand...
The two are not mutually exclusive. I don’t think anyone can accuse Augustine or Aquinas of not having an experiential understanding of God. Yes, they did try to use philosophy to understand, and yes, our finite human abilities limit us in this regard. Logic falls short, but it is a God given ability that can be useful.
Bahman said:
You are correct. So I stick to my original argument: Free will is ability to freely choose one option in a situation, which is defined with at least two options. God however is omniscient which means that he knows the actions he has to perform in future. This leaves no room for free will.
Click to expand...
I think you have drawn an erroneous conclusion. Just because God is able to change the future, does not mean that He does so. Part of the gift of free will is that He respects our choices.
 
o_mlly said:
God always does good. That God always does good, does not imply He could not do otherwise, only that He wills not to do otherwise. In a parallel but imperfect manner, a virtuous man always does good because he has habitually disciplined himself to do so. However, the virtuous man remains just as free as the vicious man.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand how what you said is related to topic.
 
guanophore said:
I think you have drawn an erroneous conclusion. Just because God is able to change the future, does not mean that He does so. Part of the gift of free will is that He respects our choices.
Click to expand...
The problem, what is claimed in OP, arises when God lives in time and is omniscient, Jesus for example.
 
Bahman said:
The problem, what is claimed in OP, arises when God lives in time and is omniscient, Jesus for example.
Click to expand...
He is eternal and with us in every moment.

In Genesis, God warns Cain about where he is heading in his jealousy of Abel.
As God gives him a chance to avoid his entering into sin, God sees him succumbing to it.

We have free will in a creation that is fully alive, coming into existence, from the Source, through the Source and united to the Source of all that is - an act of Divine love.
A symbol from eastern philosophy might help to picture the concept. God is the eternal unmoving hub, connecting through spokes which extend out, to the wheel rim, representing the femoral universe.

You may have to admit that you don’t understand what people are talking about. At that point, you can grow or return to the shell of your own world view.
 
i did not mean to imply that we are hipsters connected to eternity in a “femoral” universe. What I intended to write was “temporal” universe.
 
Aloysium said:
He is eternal and with us in every moment.

**In Genesis, God warns Cain about where he is heading in his jealousy of Abel.
As God gives him a chance to avoid his entering into sin, God sees him succumbing to it. **

We have free will in a creation that is fully alive, coming into existence, from the Source, through the Source and united to the Source of all that is - an act of Divine love.
A symbol from eastern philosophy might help to picture the concept. God is the eternal unmoving hub, connecting through spokes which extend out, to the wheel rim, representing the femoral universe.

You may have to admit that you don’t understand what people are talking about. At that point, you can grow or return to the shell of your own world view.
Click to expand...
Bahman,

I have highlighted and underlined something Aloysium said.
Read it many times until you come to understand it.

GG
 
Bahman said:
The problem, what is claimed in OP, arises when God lives in time and is omniscient, Jesus for example.
Click to expand...
So now you’ve brought God INTO TIME because Jesus was indeed, in time.

So? Do you believe Jesus had no free will?

Please read:

Luke 22:42 New International Version (NIV)

42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

In this one sentence, we see that Jesus has a Will and God Father has a Will.
A will is always free or it cannot be a will. Free Will.

GG
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
That doesn’t matter. He’s human and God. That means he’s everything. What is your problem?
Click to expand...
The problem is that how you could be free in a situation when you know what you have to do because you are omniscient.
 
Bahman said:
The problem is that how you could be free in a situation when you know what you have to do because you are omniscient.
Click to expand...
The above is for Christine77

but I’d like to say:

Why is this so complicated for you?

I could be in a situation where I am “omniscient”. I KNOW WHAT I HAVE TO DO.

I know I have an appointment with the dentist today and I KNOW I have to do.

I’m walking into the door of the building and I decide I don’t want to go.

EXCEPT with God it’s even more:

He knew from the beginning what the final outcome would be

BUT THE CHOICES WERE STILL AVAILABLE.

Could He have chosen NOT to create the universe?

Do you believe MAN has free will?
If you DO, then certainly God must have free will. It’s part of God’s nature. In Genesis it says that God created us in His image. He gave us the free will He has.
Genesis 1:27

If you think we don’t have free will - well, we’re like little robots just doing what God wants us to. Like a theater play - just playing the role.

Which of the two above do you think is correct?

GG
 
Aloysium said:
He is eternal and with us in every moment.

In Genesis, God warns Cain about where he is heading in his jealousy of Abel.
As God gives him a chance to avoid his entering into sin, God sees him succumbing to it.

We have free will in a creation that is fully alive, coming into existence, from the Source, through the Source and united to the Source of all that is - an act of Divine love.
A symbol from eastern philosophy might help to picture the concept. God is the eternal unmoving hub, connecting through spokes which extend out, to the wheel rim, representing the femoral universe.

You may have to admit that you don’t understand what people are talking about. At that point, you can grow or return to the shell of your own world view.
Click to expand...
I have no idea how what you said is connected to our discussion.
 
GodsGrace154 said:
So now you’ve brought God INTO TIME because Jesus was indeed, in time.

So? Do you believe Jesus had no free will?
Click to expand...
The problem is that it could be a tension between what you want to do, free will, one what you has to do, what your omniscience dictate you.
GodsGrace154 said:
Please read:

Luke 22:42 New International Version (NIV)

42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

In this one sentence, we see that Jesus has a Will and God Father has a Will.
A will is always free or it cannot be a will. Free Will.

GG
Click to expand...
And how this could be related to our discussion?
 
GodsGrace154 said:
The above is for Christine77

but I’d like to say:

Why is this so complicated for you?

I could be in a situation where I am “omniscient”. I KNOW WHAT I HAVE TO DO.

I know I have an appointment with the dentist today and I KNOW I have to do.

I’m walking into the door of the building and I decide I don’t want to go.
Click to expand...
You cannot do otherwise because that is what your knowledge dictate you.
GodsGrace154 said:
EXCEPT with God it’s even more:

He knew from the beginning what the final outcome would be

BUT THE CHOICES WERE STILL AVAILABLE.
Click to expand...
There is no free choice available. You know that you do X at specific time so you have to do it.
GodsGrace154 said:
Could He have chosen NOT to create the universe?
Click to expand...
Of course no because he could see in foreknowledge that he would do it.
GodsGrace154 said:
Do you believe MAN has free will?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t believe that we have free will. What is the meaning of free will when we always choose what we prefer?
GodsGrace154 said:
If you DO, then certainly God must have free will. It’s part of God’s nature. In Genesis it says that God created us in His image. He gave us the free will He has.
Genesis 1:27

If you think we don’t have free will - well, we’re like little robots just doing what God wants us to. Like a theater play - just playing the role.

Which of the two above do you think is correct?

GG
Click to expand...
I think we are rational animal and always do what our rationality dictate us.
 
Bahman said:
The problem is that it could be a tension between what you want to do, free will, one what you has to do, what your omniscience dictate you.

And how this could be related to our discussion?
Click to expand...
It’s related to our discussion because you’re saying that God has no free will because He’s omniscient.

In this one sentence it’s proving that:

GOD FATHER has free will
GOD SON has free will

Because Jesus is clearly saying:

Not MY WILL (God Son’s will) but YOU’RE WILL (God Father’s will) be done.

God Father, at this point in Jesus life, still had omniscience, and He always will have it.
God Son, at this point in Jesus’ life didn’t have omniscience…

BUT THEY BOTH HAD FREE WILL
One didn’t know the future (Jesus)
And one did (Father God)

IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE! THEY BOTH HAD FREE WILL, EVEN GOD FATHER WHO KNOWS THE FUTURE.

Sorry for the loud volume - but it’s like you don’t reply to what I’m saying.
It’s like you read about this somewhere and have put it forth as theory.

Stop theorizing AND BELIEVE.
You won’t ever understand God. You’d have to be God to understand God.

GG
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top