How important is physical appearance when dating?

[Demetra2]

It is certainly not wrong to be physically attracted to the person you are dating. Everybody has a “type” that they are attracted to but that should only be a starting point when dating. Equally important is to get to know a person’s character. A person of good character who is confident can become very attractive even when physical beauty is somewhat lacking and the opposite is also true. I was always attracted to my husband , however, it was his wonderful personality and good moral character and faith in God that really sealed the deal!

 

[Xantippe]

I think a woman needs to be straightforward with a man.

My friend had a male friend who was interested in her but she couldn’t bring herself to give him the simple “no”. She would say instead “I’m just not ready for a relationship yet”.
Which was a lie, but if gave the guy hope that one day she would be ready and he kept pursuing her.
It ended up causing problems because the guy still had hope for a relationship even when my friend started dating another guy.

Women need to be clear and not lie. It could hurt him more if you lie.

To be fair, “right now” could mean “for the next 15 minutes.”

Also, your friend’s male friend sounds borderline stalkerish and creepy. She may have given him a soft no because she was scared of him, and from your description, there was definitely reason for concern.

The traditional rule is that 2 or 3 soft nos equal a hard no. So, for instance, if a woman says, “I can’t go out with you that night because I have to wash my poodle,” and she gives 2 or 3 of those for particular invitations on separate occasions, that means, buzz off. If she’s interested in the guy but genuinely busy, she will make the effort to find time in her busy schedule for him, even if it’s at a different time. But if you get 2 or 3 of those soft refusals, with no effort on her part to find a different time that works for both of you, that means beat it.

Bear in mind that one reason women give these non-answers is that 1) we are trained not to hurt people’s feelings and 2) we are trained that it’s not nice to give a “hard no” and to tell white lies and 3) we may be actually AFRAID that if we give a man a hard no, he will hurt us.

cnn.com/2014/05/24/us/california-shooting-suspect/

I would suggest reading Dr. Nerdlove’s archives, as he has a lot on this sort of thing. It’s a secular blog, so just mentally filter all the morally unedifying stuff out, but he is very good on interpersonal dynamics and dating for the socially awkward.

www.doctornerdlove.com

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

I would suggest reading all of this, especially the part after the Facebook exchange, where Dr. Nerdlove talks about the soft no.

doctornerdlove.com/2014/03/socially-awkward-isnt-an-excuse/

 

[WildCatholic]

Good article, though I definitely fall into the category of being truly socially awkward since I’m someone who’s usually afraid of making a mistake when talking with women and worry that I shouldn’t talk to them if they find me creepy. Sometimes I’m even scared to say hello because they look at me and it feels like “OMG why is that fat creeper looking at me?” Its hard also because I often feel like when I have crushes I feel bad about them because I have them on woman out of my league and feel like i shouldn’t even dare communicate with them and just communicate with “my own kind”.

 

[Estevao]

It’s very important, especially these days because we live in an extremely narcissistic culture.

For instance, Xantippe posted an article from a blogger named “doctornerdlove” about how men shouldn’t be “creepy”, and then went into some detail on what this means for the author, but the things that this blogger never noted was that if this potential creep was good looking, he wouldn’t be a creep in the first place.

On that article, there was a facebook message exchange between “fedorabeard” and “hot topic clerk”, demonstrating in the author’s eyes how not to be a creep, and how to recognize a “soft no” and other made-up social terms to cover for being an anti-social unkind person (which is okay if you are an attractive woman, but not if you are an unattractive man, because then you are a creep if you act like this, according to drnerdlove). But the thing is that “fedorabeard” was not good looking, therefore, what he did was “creepy”.

But if this “fedorabeard” fellow were instead Zyzz, deceased internet celebrity and all around stud, he could have messaged her any way he wanted, and more likely, this hot topic clerk would be the one searching HIM out on facebook and sending him awkward messages. (And I have seen these messages, just google “zyzz facebook” and look at the images)

Moreover, there will never be a drnerdlove blog post about how all these women who send “creepy” messages to studs like Zyzz on facebook are creeps who should stop being creeps, because that’s not what self-hating misandrists like drnerdlove do, misandrists only hold standards on men, women are not to be questioned in a misandrist’s world.

The neat thing about Zyzz is that before his untimely death, he used to be a skinny dweeb nice guy “creep”. But then he started lifting weights, getting in shape, doing a few cycles of steroids, and perhaps most importantly, he stopped trying to be “nice”, he started being a narcissistic jerk who liked going to raves and music concerts with his shirt off. And guess what? The girls started clinging to him like white on rice. And he knew himself that it was just all an act, that his true inner self was still the skinny dweeb, but he knew that he could still act like this and have the women and the fun. When is the last time you heard about women starting to cling to nice Catholic boys who practiced their faith? It doesn’t happen. Maybe in the 1950s it did, but this ain’t the '50s.

What’s the lesson to take from this? If you really want a woman more than living virtuously, because the rewards for living according to the gospel do not come in this life, become like Zyzz. Maybe you won’t die an untimely death and later on in your thirties or fourties you can convert back to Catholicism for your Catholic wife who didn’t find all those nice Catholic dweebs at her parish attractive enough to marry, and instead wanted to tame some errant stud.

Notice how what I’m saying is completely the opposite of what Jesus would say? Well, that’s the modern dating scene for you. “Choose this day whom ye will serve…”

 

[Xantippe]

Good article, though I definitely fall into the category of being truly socially awkward since I’m someone who’s usually afraid of making a mistake when talking with women and worry that I shouldn’t talk to them if they find me creepy. Sometimes I’m even scared to say hello because they look at me and it feels like “OMG why is that fat creeper looking at me?” Its hard also because I often feel like when I have crushes I feel bad about them because I have them on woman out of my league and feel like i shouldn’t even dare communicate with them and just communicate with “my own kind”.

Not saying hello is a pretty big social faux pas in and of itself.

There’s no possible way of screwing up smiling at somebody and saying, “Hello, Zoe! Good to see you!” and then going quickly off on your business.

Staring at somebody and never saying hello is going to REALLY alarm a lot of women.

Also, if you’re going to work with special needs children, you really do need to polish up your own social skills, even just to do your job adequately.

Best wishes!

 

[Estevao]

Good article, though I definitely fall into the category of being truly socially awkward since I’m someone who’s usually afraid of making a mistake when talking with women and worry that I shouldn’t talk to them if they find me creepy. Sometimes I’m even scared to say hello because they look at me and it feels like “OMG why is that fat creeper looking at me?” Its hard also because I often feel like when I have crushes I feel bad about them because I have them on woman out of my league and feel like i shouldn’t even dare communicate with them and just communicate with “my own kind”.

One thing to keep in mind from that drnerdlove is that if these “creeps” were actually good looking people, then they wouldn’t be creeps. For example, I’ve seen several facebook interactions between deceased internet celebrity/bodybuilder Zyzz and the hordes of “creepy” women acting exactly like the male “creep” in that article. But there will never be an article written detailing a bunch of stuff about “soft nos” and this feminist fantasy of a “rape culture” when it comes to these “creeps”.

 

[Xantippe]

One thing to keep in mind from that drnerdlove is that if these “creeps” were actually good looking people, then they wouldn’t be creeps. For example, I’ve seen several facebook interactions between deceased internet celebrity/bodybuilder Zyzz and the hordes of “creepy” women acting exactly like the male “creep” in that article. But there will never be an article written detailing a bunch of stuff about “soft nos” and this feminist fantasy of a “rape culture” when it comes to these “creeps”.

Men give soft nos, too. It’s just that they generally have fewer opportunities to do so.

Example: If your mom wanted to set you up with her best friend’s daughter, you’d figure out some inoffensive way to say no that wasn’t, “No, and I wouldn’t even if she were the last woman on earth. She laughs like a hyena, has coffee/garlic/onion/??? breath, and she has more cats than shoes.”

Soft nos are just part of living a quiet, peaceful, friendly life with the other 7 billion humans on the planet.

 

[Estevao]

Men give soft nos, too. It’s just that they generally have fewer opportunities to do so.

Example: If your mom wanted to set you up with her best friend’s daughter, you’d figure out some inoffensive way to say no that wasn’t, “No, and I wouldn’t even if she were the last woman on earth. She laughs like a hyena, has coffee/garlic/onion/??? breath, and she has more cats than shoes.”

Soft nos are just part of living a quiet, peaceful, friendly life with the other 7 billion humans on the planet.

Maybe I wouldn’t say why I don’t like her, but I’d at least have the common courtesy to tell the person straight up that I don’t like her, instead of acting anti-social and just expecting them to get it already.

But you see that’s way too much common sense for all these feminists and their fellow travelers like drnerdlove who make up this fantasy of “rape culture” to justify treating other people like scum because they make them “feel uncomfortable”, or, more to the point, they aren’t attractive.

This video shows this phenomenon:

youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

And read how drnerdlove is unable to face the truth of this phenomenon, and instead says it’s a woman’s choice to accept behavior from a handsome man that would land another “creepy” man with a restraining order. But of course this just goes to show that “creep” is a socially acceptable way of saying “ugly”:

doctornerdlove.com/2012/09/creepy-behavior-difference-attractive-attracted/

Now I would agree that women can do whatever they want, but just don’t expect me to join the cause when all these women staying in abusive relationships with attractive badboys or gangsters or whatever want me to start fighting against these fantasies of “the patriarchy” or “rape culture”.

 

[Xantippe]

One thing to keep in mind from that drnerdlove is that if these “creeps” were actually good looking people, then they wouldn’t be creeps. For example, I’ve seen several facebook interactions between deceased internet celebrity/bodybuilder Zyzz and the hordes of “creepy” women acting exactly like the male “creep” in that article. But there will never be an article written detailing a bunch of stuff about “soft nos” and this feminist fantasy of a “rape culture” when it comes to these “creeps”.

On reflection, I think it’s worth talking more about creeps and being creepy.

I think you (and your authorities) are making a mistake by believing that creepiness is entirely a question of not being “good looking.” In practice, creepiness is at least 50% behavior and attractiveness itself has a major behavioral component: good hygiene, presentable dress, good posture (very important!), good eye contact (not too little, not too much), good understanding of appropriate personal space and social norms (what subjects are of general interest, how long to talk on your topics before stopping and asking questions, not asking too many personal questions in quick succession, when and how much physical contact is appropriate or welcome, etc.), ability to read other’s feelings (have I been talking too long? is he or she bored? is she enjoying this kiss?), shared interests, etc. There are also the even more difficult issues of charm and humor. On reflection, maybe it would be fairer to say that attractiveness might only be about 25% objective physical qualities. Imagine, for instance, a beautiful woman with a perfect figure (the product of great genes, careful diet, and long hours of yoga), long beautiful hair, and a flawless complexion. Now, let’s add that she picks her nose in public, chews with her mouth open, is weird about food, makes racist jokes about your family’s ethnic background in front of them (and she’s not a member of the group), expects you to pay her bills when she’s short, doesn’t clean up after her pets’ “accidents,” and has a fridge that looks like a science experiment. Unless a guy has no self-esteem at all and no hope of ever attracting another woman, her physical attributes are pretty early going to be completely swamped by all of the unattractive habits and behaviors. At some point, you won’t even notice that she’s pretty, because you’ll be so skeeved out by everything else.

Getting back to creeps and creepiness, creepiness is largely defined by behavior. There are different permutations. Some examples:

1. Hovering, staring at the object of interest, not saying hello, not engaging in normal social interactions, showing intense interest without either making an attempt to get to know the object of interest or asking her out for a long period of time. Paradoxically, not making a move can be VERY creepy.
2. At the other extreme, making repeated overtures and not taking no for an answer. Not respecting “soft nos.” Being inappropriately physical. Making repeated overtures to her at her job where she has to be nice to you (because it’s her job). (True story: my parents had a pretty cashier who attracted a series of guys who would hang around the shop just to be near her. The last one got told off by the employee’s boyfriend and left, threatening (in front of about 3 or 4 witnesses) to burn down my parents’ store. Good times. Law enforcement had to be involved.)

I have to add that my husband and I are both on the less socially astute end of the spectrum and have a high-functioning autistic child who has done social circles and therapy and all sorts of different things to get her socially on track, so the question of social appropriateness has been one of my major interests over the last 6+ years. Being socially appropriate is HARD. It’s like learning to dance when you’ve got no sense of rhythm. But it is necessary (and pretty much a moral duty) to make an effort.

 

[Xantippe]

Maybe I wouldn’t say why I don’t like her, but I’d at least have the common courtesy to tell the person straight up that I don’t like her, instead of acting anti-social and just expecting them to get it already.

But you see that’s way too much common sense for all these feminists and their fellow travelers like drnerdlove who make up this fantasy of “rape culture” to justify treating other people like scum because they make them “feel uncomfortable”, or, more to the point, they aren’t attractive.

This video shows this phenomenon:

youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

And read how drnerdlove is unable to face the truth of this phenomenon, and instead says it’s a woman’s choice to accept behavior from a handsome man that would land another “creepy” man with a restraining order. But of course this just goes to show that “creep” is a socially acceptable way of saying “ugly”:

doctornerdlove.com/2012/09/creepy-behavior-difference-attractive-attracted/

Now I would agree that women can do whatever they want, but just don’t expect me to join the cause when all these women staying in abusive relationships with attractive badboys or gangsters or whatever want me to start fighting against these fantasies of “the patriarchy” or “rape culture”.

Why is it “treating people like scum” to give them “soft nos” rather than “treating people like scum” by telling them “I don’t like you” (your preferred version)?

It’s not obvious that the soft no (I’m busy that night…visualizing world peace/catching up on Facebook/alphabetizing my holy cards/grooming my poodle/watching Downtown Abbey with my girlfriends/etc.) is meaner than your preferred version.

I’ll catch up on your videos in a sec.

 

[WildCatholic]

On reflection, I think it’s worth talking more about creeps and being creepy.

I think you (and your authorities) are making a mistake by believing that creepiness is entirely a question of not being “good looking.” In practice, creepiness is at least 50% behavior and attractiveness itself has a major behavioral component: good hygiene, presentable dress, good posture (very important!), good eye contact (not too little, not too much), good understanding of appropriate personal space and social norms (what subjects are of general interest, how long to talk on your topics before stopping and asking questions, not asking too many personal questions in quick succession, when and how much physical contact is appropriate or welcome, etc.), ability to read other’s feelings (have I been talking too long? is he or she bored? is she enjoying this kiss?), shared interests, etc. There are also the even more difficult issues of charm and humor. On reflection, maybe it would be fairer to say that attractiveness might only be about 25% objective physical qualities. Imagine, for instance, a beautiful woman with a perfect figure (the product of great genes, careful diet, and long hours of yoga), long beautiful hair, and a flawless complexion. Now, let’s add that she picks her nose in public, chews with her mouth open, is weird about food, makes racist jokes about your family’s ethnic background in front of them (and she’s not a member of the group), expects you to pay her bills when she’s short, doesn’t clean up after her pets’ “accidents,” and has a fridge that looks like a science experiment. Unless a guy has no self-esteem at all and no hope of ever attracting another woman, her physical attributes are pretty early going to be completely swamped by all of the unattractive habits and behaviors. At some point, you won’t even notice that she’s pretty, because you’ll be so skeeved out by everything else.

Getting back to creeps and creepiness, creepiness is largely defined by behavior. There are different permutations. Some examples:

1. Hovering, staring at the object of interest, not saying hello, not engaging in normal social interactions, showing intense interest without either making an attempt to get to know the object of interest or asking her out for a long period of time. Paradoxically, not making a move can be VERY creepy.
2. At the other extreme, making repeated overtures and not taking no for an answer. Not respecting “soft nos.” Being inappropriately physical. Making repeated overtures to her at her job where she has to be nice to you (because it’s her job). (True story: my parents had a pretty cashier who attracted a series of guys who would hang around the shop just to be near her. The last one got told off by the employee’s boyfriend and left, threatening (in front of about 3 or 4 witnesses) to burn down my parents’ store. Good times. Law enforcement had to be involved.)

I have to add that my husband and I are both on the less socially astute end of the spectrum and have a high-functioning autistic child who has done social circles and therapy and all sorts of different things to get her socially on track, so the question of social appropriateness has been one of my major interests over the last 6+ years. Being socially appropriate is HARD. It’s like learning to dance when you’ve got no sense of rhythm. But it is necessary (and pretty much a moral duty) to make an effort.

Thank you for this and your interest and you truly are a great help. I guess I feel though that its strange you see it as a moral duty to make an effort to be social. I guess my thing is that why don’t we just accept people for who they are? I agree people should put up an effort to be social and act better but some people just are never going to be at a level where they will have friends or be able to be in romantic relationships or even just live a normal life. Now in my brothers case it isn’t about being good looking or not good looking since his autism has so much effect on him that it doesn’t matter.

But for those who aren’t disabled but just socially awkward we go back to the problem that we get labeled as creepers even if all we do is stare accidentally or don’t say the right thing. Why is this such a big deal.Yes the dudes who give shoulder massages are not only creeps but could be seen as sexual assaulters but it feels like a lot of nice guys who just don’t know the ropes get tripped up. Of course maybe social awkwardness is just god’s way of telling some of these people they should be single. I don’t know?

 

[Xantippe]

M

This video shows this phenomenon:

youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

And read how drnerdlove is unable to face the truth of this phenomenon, and instead says it’s a woman’s choice to accept behavior from a handsome man that would land another “creepy” man with a restraining order. But of course this just goes to show that “creep” is a socially acceptable way of saying “ugly”:

doctornerdlove.com/2012/09/creepy-behavior-difference-attractive-attracted/

Now I would agree that women can do whatever they want, but just don’t expect me to join the cause when all these women staying in abusive relationships with attractive badboys or gangsters or whatever want me to start fighting against these fantasies of “the patriarchy” or “rape culture”.

OK, I watched the video. I think you’re making a major mistake with regard to deeming the first guy unattractive and the second guy handsome.

Here’s the thing–they are both physically very average guys. The first guy has a bit of double chin, but that’s it on the purely physical front. The major differences between the two are all behavioral–the first guy is wearing clothes most suitable for raking leaves or cleaning the garage, while the second guy has actually dressed for the bar in clothes that are the counterpart of the dress-up clothes that the women are wearing. The first guy did not suit up for the evening. Of course he looks bad to women who have been putting an hour or two into looking their best for the evening compared to a guy who actually put some effort into himself. The first guy is not “ugly” at all, just sloppy.

As to this:

“Now I would agree that women can do whatever they want, but just don’t expect me to join the cause when all these women staying in abusive relationships with attractive badboys or gangsters or whatever want me to start fighting against these fantasies of “the patriarchy” or “rape culture”.”

Bear in mind that those are totally different groups of women. The sort of women who date bad boys and gangsters generally don’t talk about “the patriarchy” or “rape culture” and conversely, the sort of women who talk about “the patriarchy” and “rape culture” don’t date bad boys and gangsters. It just does not happen for any length of time. Or, if there is any overlap, it’s generally via casuality–abusive relationships sometimes create extreme feminists. Women that the patriarchy has treated pretty well (like me–thanks, patriarchy!) tend to be much more moderate and don’t engage in either behavior–dating bad boys or complaining about “the patriarchy”.

There are lots of different kinds of women.

Also, come to think of it, who expects to meet sweet, wholesome, family-minded women by buying strangers drinks in bars?

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you for this and your interest and you truly are a great help. I guess I feel though that its strange you see it as a moral duty to make an effort to be social. I guess my thing is that why don’t we just accept people for who they are? I agree people should put up an effort to be social and act better but some people just are never going to be at a level where they will have friends or be able to be in romantic relationships or even just live a normal life. Now in my brothers case it isn’t about being good looking or not good looking since his autism has so much effect on him that it doesn’t matter.

But for those who aren’t disabled but just socially awkward we go back to the problem that we get labeled as creepers even if all we do is stare accidentally or don’t say the right thing. Why is this such a big deal.Yes the dudes who give shoulder massages are not only creeps but could be seen as sexual assaulters but it feels like a lot of nice guys who just don’t know the ropes get tripped up. Of course maybe social awkwardness is just god’s way of telling some of these people they should be single. I don’t know?

Why not accept people for who they are? Well, if “who they are” is “loner who doesn’t seem to want to talk to people” a lot of people are going to take that at face value and leave the person alone. But that’s not quite your situation–you are lonely and you’d like a girlfriend/wife/family/etc. Hence, you need to exert yourself to act like a guy who wants to be around other people and who enjoys other people’s company. In your case, it’s a question of trying harder to look like who you actually are.

Also, there’s the moral issue that it is a good and holy thing to befriend new people, help them settle in in a new place, and feel welcomed and comfortable. That’s A LOT of what being social means. And look at Matthew 25:31-46 (the parable of the sheep and the goats): “I was a stranger and you welcomed me.”

Also, being a husband and a father is a very taxing social situation. A good husband and father can’t be a loner.

Practice makes perfect–read up on social skills (books and advice blogs), work with a therapist, ask women out (with specific day, time, place and activity), and keep working at it. You’re only 24–you can only get better.

When I remember all the social boo boos I committed at 24 and younger I just blush and blush, but I’ve worked hard, and I’m much better these days at filtering myself (way fewer impulsive verbal pop outs than I used to have), taking trouble, making friends, being a friend, and helping my kids make and be friends, too. Like everything else, it’s work, but it’s worth it.

 

[Naskor]

Maybe I wouldn’t say why I don’t like her, but I’d at least have the common courtesy to tell the person straight up that I don’t like her, instead of acting anti-social and just expecting them to get it already.

But you see that’s way too much common sense for all these feminists and their fellow travelers like drnerdlove who make up this fantasy of “rape culture” to justify treating other people like scum because they make them “feel uncomfortable”, or, more to the point, they aren’t attractive.

This video shows this phenomenon:

youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

And read how drnerdlove is unable to face the truth of this phenomenon, and instead says it’s a woman’s choice to accept behavior from a handsome man that would land another “creepy” man with a restraining order. But of course this just goes to show that “creep” is a socially acceptable way of saying “ugly”:

doctornerdlove.com/2012/09/creepy-behavior-difference-attractive-attracted/

Now I would agree that women can do whatever they want, but just don’t expect me to join the cause when all these women staying in abusive relationships with attractive badboys or gangsters or whatever want me to start fighting against these fantasies of “the patriarchy” or “rape culture”.

Here is some info about the psychology of that sorta situation.

psychologytoday.com/blog/psychologist-the-movies/201111/relationship-violence-in-twilight

Scary stuff.

 

[TeachCatechism]

Appearances matter but it’s a matter of what I find attractive. I am in love with a male friend who isn’t what one would call handsome. He’s not bad looking but he is short, slightly overweight and balding. Yet the more I get to know him the more I fall in love deeper. If I had met him in my 20’s I would have bypassed him for the tall, dark and handsome man with sel confidence (he is extremely shy).

 

[TeachCatechism]

Or, the somewhat nicer, “I don’t like you that way” or “I don’t think we have good chemistry.”

I did online dating back in 2011-2012 and met several guys. With most there was nothing there so we parted with no plans. One time I met this guy who seemed perfect on his profile for me. Like me he was never married, childless and he was a teacher. He also was looking to get married. So we meet and I’m not bowled over but he was a nice guy. We did kind of struggle to talk but I chalked that up to nerves. At the end of the date (we had a snack followed by a walk)we exchanged phone numbers with a plan to meet the following Saturday for a hike. That Thursday he emailed me and said he felt no chemistry and didn’t see a reason to meet again. I thanked him for being honest and he told me he was afraid to tell me because the last three women he met got psycho when he told them.

I was sort of disappointed but only because I hate rejection. To be honest I wasn’t that into him either. Was he repulsed by me or was it something else? maybe he felt because we struggled to talk that was a bad sign. I don’t look at it as he disliked my looks because that likely wasn’t it.

 

[JamalChristophr]

maybe he felt because we struggled to talk that was a bad sign. I don’t look at it as he disliked my looks because that likely wasn’t it.

That was probably it. I’m by no means an expert, but I kinda’ think communication should come pretty easily and naturally even within the first date, but perhaps others have different experiences.

 

[Xantippe]

That was probably it. I’m by no means an expert, but I kinda’ think communication should come pretty easily and naturally even within the first date, but perhaps others have different experiences.

There’s been some recent research that suggests that traditional job interviews for are misleading and unhelpful.

bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013/11/24/want-best-person-for-job-don-interview/3LB4rwjf6i88GfaDoRubLN/story.html

It’s entirely possible that first dates are subject to similar problems–people may not perform to their normal standard under interview pressure–they may be so nervous that they choke and aren’t themselves. So, I think I would encourage single people to give more people a second chance rather than briskly sifting with a lot of 1st dates.

Here’s another interesting research finding:

psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201001/why-are-narcissists-initially-so-popular

"Narcissists don’t play well with others, and this becomes clearer in the long-term. Narcissists don’t tend to do well in long-term relationships, and suffer from all sorts of intra- and interpersonal problems. Paulhus (1998) found that after the seventh roughly 2.5 hour student work group session, narcissists were rated by the other members of the group as less agreeable, less well adjusted, less warm, and more hostile and arrogant.

“But here’s the kicker (or paradox). In that same study, Paulhus found that after the first meeting, narcissists were rated as more agreeable, conscientious, open, competence, entertaining, and well adjusted by the other members of the group. What a contrast to what the group members thought of the very same narcissistic individuals on the seventh day!”

Hence, there is reason to 1) give the less sparkly people a second or third look (they may have endearing qualities that will emerge with time) and 2) to be prepared to reassess and downgrade one’s opinion of someone who was initially super duper charming.

 

[TeachCatechism]

That was probably it. I’m by no means an expert, but I kinda’ think communication should come pretty easily and naturally even within the first date, but perhaps others have different experiences.

I think that is definitely part of it at least. We just didn’t click. I always ignored the whole chemistry thing but with my male friend I feel very strong chemistry. When he walks in a room I sense him and when he approaches me my body gravitates toward him. I didn’t notice the last part, someone else did and said we looked like we fit. With the guy I met online we were awkward with each other. Granted we had just met but there wasn’t this sense of belonging together.