How is God fair?

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Ok, so here’s my question, the “Good News” of Christ’s salvific/redemptive sacrifice doesn’t really mean anything if a person doesn’t believe they deserve the punishment from which Christ has saved us.

I struggle with properly understanding how the wages we receive for sin are death/permanent exclusion from God’s presence. Some say sin is “missing the mark” - so what’s the standard? what’s the mark that we’re missing? Perfection! Be Perfect as your heavenly father is perfect, right?

here’s my point: How can we be expected to live up to a standard of perfection, since it’s impossible, we all fail, therefore we all are doomed…HOW IS THAT FAIR ON GOD’S PART? How can we properly warrant eternal punishment for not being able to achieve an impossible goal. That’d be like telling my toddler unless he dunks a basketball on a regulation height hoop, he can’t live with us anymore. It just doesn’t make sense to me. And the analogy of how “an insult/offense is of a magnitude proportional to the one who is insulted/offended, and since god is infinite, any insult/offense to him is infinite, and therefore incurs an infinite penalty” seems a bit much, and also doesn’t convince the heart of a person of the goodness of God. Yes his mercy might be limitless, but perhaps he shouldn’t be as offended if i committed the most venial of sins.

Does this make sense? I don’t know how i can properly evangelize others when i don’t myself fully appreciate the origin of the problem and the “Bad News” from which the “Good News” springs forth.

Thanks for reading/answering if you do so.
 
You see we don’t deserve the air we breath, much less an easy life and infinitely less heaven.

And there’s a difference between striving for perfection using all the graces God gives us plus our human facilities and virtues, and being judged in the end as perfect.

The former sets up a marvelous means of unity or communion with God as we begin again with His help or grace.
 
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God doesn’t require you to live up to a standard of perfection in order to avoid eternal hell. It’s only those who die in a state of mortal sin who are at risk of being lost.

Yes, humans have a weakness to sin and therefore cannot live free of minor sins. But it’s hardly correct to say that it’s an “impossible goal” for a Christian to live free of mortal sin. A person can choose not to commit adultery in his marriage, not to kill anyone, not to defraud an elderly couple out of their life savings, and so on. And, even if he falls into a mortal sin, he only needs to repent and receive God’s forgiveness to restore his soul to grace.
 
Why does an all powerful, perfect being need to be fair to creatures that are less than ants comparatively?
 
In other translation, we are called to be holy.

We may not be holy or perfect, but we can. When we are in a state of grace after going for the Sacrament of Reconciliation, we are perfect, our souls are perfect.

Sure, we will lose that perfection by the sins we commit, but God’s grace and not by our own merit, allows us to be perfect.

Being a Christian, when we are not perfect, by our lives and and faith, we are on the way to perfection.

God does not ask us the impossible. When he asks us, it is something that can be achieved, by us or by His grace.

God bless.
 
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Concerning perfection - Jesus said it -
It’s attainable then.
What is perfection for you ?
Being who you are not - and then going into even more deeper blacker realms ?
 
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Perfect rectitude with the will of God; unity of intellect (Word) and will (love) given human capacity and grace.
 
karmascar said:
… Be Perfect as your heavenly father is perfect, right?

… here’s my point: How can we be expected to live up to a standard of perfection, since it’s impossible, we all fail, therefore we all are doomed…HOW IS THAT FAIR ON GOD’S PART? How can we properly warrant eternal punishment for not being able to achieve an impossible goal. …
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No, perfection is a goal but not a requirement for salvation. The Holy Trinity makes it possible for humans to be saved from mortal sin, through supernatural grace, not by something we have naturally. When one cooperats with that grace, it expresses charity, and when one that has that state of final penitence – that die in that love of the Holy Trinity – will see, via the Beatific Vision, the Holy Trinity in heaven. Adam and Even had original justice, which is the simultaneous possession of sanctifying grace, with the right to enter heaven, and the preternatural gifts. For us, except for the ability to overcome concupiscence which is given with sanctifying grace, the preternatural gifts are only later received at our glorious resurrection to heaven. Mercy is pardon from the guilt of sin with out repentance (an individual act of will) and some portion of temporal punishments. Justice is remunerative justice rewarding the good; and vindictive justice punishing the wicked.

2 Timothy 4
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. 8 As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming. Make haste to come to me quickly.
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The wages of sin - guess what - you have to pay up.
Sometimes - bodily. No doubt about that.
There’s a saying, “ pay the devil his due “

It’s just that sin, it’s very nature,
takes a little piece away from your puzzle…( let’s say a 1000 piece puzzle )
The person whom God knows - that you are.
To some - that’s bad news.
 
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Brittany said:
You’re misunderstanding.

The issue is about trying to be perfect - and I don’t mean one of those half-tried attempts. It’s about really trying.
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Perfection is not an ideal that can only be approached without ever reaching it.
According to St Thomas, there are three degrees of perfection that humans can have.
  1. The perfection of loving God currently and without interruption of the maximum we can. This perfection is possible only in Heaven
  2. The perfection of effectively following all the commandments of God (that is, not to commit mortal sin) and having the spirit of evangelical counsels. This perfection is possible to achieve during this life, and it is the perfection common to all saints
  3. The perfection of following all the commandments of God, and of actually following the evangelical counsels as best as possible. This perfection is possible during this life and is reserved for an elite.
So when we are asked to be perfect in this life, we ask to attain perfections 2) or 3).
 
You have to remember that all of mankind was severed from grace and from God’s presence by the sin of Adam and Eve. With their sin, death came to all people. No, it’s not “fair,” but it is what it is. Since God is so competely holy and perfect, nothing sinful can come into His presence. And we are all sinful from our very conception due to original sin and thus could never hope to have a relationship with God or ever go to Heaven no matter how much we tried.

But the very, very Good News is that God loved us all so much, that He sent His only Son to die for us, that through Him all men might be saved. God did not leave us stranded and desolate on Earth. He loved us so much that He suffered and died and took our penalty so that we can be redeemed and co-heirs with Him for all eternity! We do nothing to merit this! But He gives it to us anyway and gives us graces and Sacraments in this life to help us on our road to holiness.
Then He provides Purgatory to help wash off whatever sin we are still attached to.

So don’t focus on how “unfair” salvation seems. Salvation really is Good News! God has suffered and died to set us free! Hallelujah!
 
karmascar said:
How can we be expected to live up to a standard of perfection, since it’s impossible, we all fail, therefore we all are doomed…HOW IS THAT FAIR ON GOD’S PART?
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That’s why we have confession and, obviously, the fact that Jesus died for us. God knew that we were basically screwed when Adam+Eve sinned, lol!

Anyway, maybe someone can cite the original source but I believe it was a Saint (Therese?) who said she believed a serial killer went to heaven because she found out that he kissed the cross before he was executed. A priest shared that he thought it was unfair because he had a deep feeling he was going to hell because he didn’t meet God’s standards and that it’s not fair because the killer is in heaven. After reflecting, he realized it’s because he’s not doing what God personally wanted him to do in that moment. Basically this meant that God expects us to be perfect in our own capacity.

Yeah, this isn’t the best explanation at all but it’s getting late here :confused:
 
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We are called to perfection but are fully dependent on God’s mercy. We have the saints who went to Heaven to ‘prove’ it is achievable if you do all you can. In the words of St Bernard: ‘a saint is not one who never sins, but one who sins less and less frequently and gets up more and more quickly’.
 
I follow what you’re saying.
i’m trying to get at the root of the problem - to understand how bad the bad news is, so that the good news, in light of the bad news, makes sense, and can be understood. It’s hard to evangelize others when you don’t understand yourself what you’ve got your hands on. So in order to first truly “convert” myself, i must understand it, then, for at least my own benefit, but ultimately the benefit of others who don’t yet believe, i can share jubilantly the good news because i can explain the predicament we all share, that Christ has saved us from.

So if you had one shot to convince an atheist why we need saving to begin with what would you say?
 
ok, i’m with you, but in light of what you said, why must people be at a risk of being lost? forgive my lack of basic catechical understanding but this is the root of my confusion. thanks for your response.
 
thanks for your response. i’m trying to learn/understand why Christ’s sacrifice was needed - ok there’s sin - why’s there sin? or rather, why does sin cause us to be punished eternally?

your thoughts?
 
Why indeed. If God is all good, and all merciful, and all just, which christians believe he is, then implicit in the just-ness is fairness (though some high falutin’ philosopher or theologian might split hairs over semantics).

If he isn’t fair, is he worthy of our love? Is he no better than us? fickle, erratic, unpredictable, fearsome indeed!
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I guess what i’m getting at is i am trying to understand the degree to which, without Christ, we are all IN TROUBLE, i.e. going to hell. Why is it we are going to hell? My wife, and others close to me are not believers, i’m trying to be convinced myself first, in order to speak intelligently about this, and i can’t understand why it must be that we go to hell for our sins. How or why does god get offended or insulted by these things we do, and why those things we do must warrant eternity in hell. Your thoughts?
 
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