How is the LDS a cult? Part 2

[Mike_SoCal]

Please continue…

Don’t be too afraid of the word “cult”.

It is a difficult label. It can apply to one or to all.

I’m a proud member of the “Jesus Cult”, as the Jews and Romans once refereed to it.

All religious groups (denominations/churches) should vet their beliefs versus the literal Orthodoxy of the Bible Old and New Testament.

When Jesus responded to inquiries he often said, “It is written”.
Everything God wants us to hold as doctrine is written in the Word.

We are all commissioned to teach the Gospel:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[SteveVH]

All religious groups (denominations/churches) should vet their beliefs versus the literal Orthodoxy of the Bible Old and New Testament.

And out of the 30,000+ ecclesial communities out there, who’s literal orthodox interpretation would you recommend going with? You speak as if everyone agrees on what “the literal Orthodoxy of the Bible” means while it is self-evident that this is not the case by a long shot.

 

[Stephen168]

When Jesus responded to inquiries he often said, “It is written”.
Everything God wants us to hold as doctrine is written in the Word.

We are all commissioned to teach the Gospel:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Jesus was referring to Ephesians?

 

[Marie5890]

Maybe not a formal excommunication, but you and I both know how the gossip mill, love bombing, etc. works in a mormon ward.

It has driven many a mormon out.

I suppose that would depend on the dynamic of each ward.
I had a roommate who was single and pregnant while I lived in a BYU ward. She was not ostracized or gossiped about or whatever have you. She couldnt hold a calling, but there was nothing less than love for her.

I was present at the birth of her little boy, a little one with spina bifida, whom she gave up for adoption.

Perhaps in another ward she would have been pushed out, gossiped about, whatever phrase one wants to use.
But not in the ward we were in.

 

[Marie5890]

A very generous expression

I was stunned that one of the 12 even admitted that, and that someone was there who could share it.

 

[Marie5890]

Sorry, I’m not getting that impression from you at all I’m afraid.

Things can only be repeated and explained so many times before it gets tiresome. :banghead:

As I said before, I’m not sure you have had much exposure to mormonism, and those who have.

Actually I think his attempt is very just and fair, even if his exposure is limited. And I have had tons of exposure, living in the midst of it. And I see his sincere attempts at being fair, being just. That should be lauded and encouraged. It’s taken a 1000+ years for healthy and constructive dialogue to happen between the East and the West. They are a good example of healthy and constructive dialogue

I know those of us who are former Mormons come away with our own perspectives, our different baggage. That is valid.

But, hell, it’s not like those who are former Catholics and been deeply wounded sing the praises of the Catholic Church either. A lot of bitterness is out there from former Catholics. We all know that.

It’s not like there is nothing worth of value exsist in Mormonism. Hell, EWTN uses the “New Testament” animated series by Kurt Bestor (HUGE Mormon compostor and artist) in their children’s programming.

Got meet the Samaritan at the well, and move forward. Not toss her down the well and say “die woman, die”

 

[twopekinguys]

Actually I think his attempt is very just and fair, even if his exposure is limited. And I have had tons of exposure, living in the midst of it. And I see his sincere attempts at being fair, being just. That should be lauded and encouraged. It’s taken a 1000+ years for healthy and constructive dialogue to happen between the East and the West. They are a good example of healthy and constructive dialogue

I know those of us who are former Mormons come away with our own perspectives, our different baggage. That is valid.

But, hell, it’s not like those who are former Catholics and been deeply wounded sing the praises of the Catholic Church either. A lot of bitterness is out there from former Catholics. We all know that.

It’s not like there is nothing worth of value exsist in Mormonism. Hell, EWTN uses the “New Testament” animated series by Kurt Bestor (HUGE Mormon compostor and artist) in their children’s programming.

Got meet the Samaritan at the well, and move forward. Not toss her down the well and say “die woman, die”

Insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.”

It is obvious that I (and possibly some of the others) are not getting through to you or aspirant.

For me, I’m no longer going to try.

Peace.

 

[Marie5890]

Insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.”

It is obvious that I (and possibly some of the others) are not getting through to you or aspirant.

For me, I’m no longer going to try.

Peace.

And clearly, we are not getting thru to you.

As Catholics, we are expected to be fair and just in our dealing with others regardless of their background. We, as Catholics, should know this.

God bless

 

[aspirant]

Sorry, I’m not getting that impression from you at all I’m afraid…

As I said before, I’m not sure you have had much exposure to mormonism, and those who have.

You will believe what you choose.

As far as I can tell, you treat even Marie5890 as if she’s ignorant of Mormonism.

As Catholics, we are expected to be fair and just in our dealing with others regardless of their background.

You remind me of a passage I have to work very hard to remember:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
–of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor…
–of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
St. Ignatius of Loyola:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

 

[Marie5890]

You will believe what you choose.

As far as I can tell, you treat even Marie5890 as if she’s ignorant of Mormonism.

You remind me of a passage I have to work very hard to remember:

Thank you for your just, charitable comments and participation in this discussion, aspirant.

 

[aspirant]

I have really appreciated your posts, Marie!

 

[TexanKnight]

And clearly, we are not getting thru to you.

As Catholics, we are expected to be fair and just in our dealing with others regardless of their background. We, as Catholics, should know this.

God bless

Really? I have asked several times to show me how charitable our Catholic Forefathers were in dealing with heresy and you ignore the question. I wonder why…

 

[TexanKnight]

I didnt imply anything.

A Mormon has to claim that you are a full tithe payer to get into the temple amongst other things.

Are you surprised that people enter the temple unworthily?

Some of you seem to be struggling with this one, the way non-Catholics seem to think Catholics worship Mary and statue.

No, we Catholics dont worship Mary and other statues
And No, Mormons dont think when they go to the temple they are entering Heaven.

Not heaven…but a representation of heaven…even has rooms called Telestial, terrestrial and celestial…to represent the levels of heaven. You should know that

 

[TexanKnight]

Just to be clear, I went to a Mormon temple once to do baptisms for the dead. I never went back, so I can’t give you personal experience there.

I did pay tithing as a Mormon. The one similarity between Catholics and Mormons is that we view providing for the needs of our respective churches as an obligation.

The differences:

• Catholics give according to their own conscience. We don’t have a set amount.
• No one is checking up on every individual Catholic to make sure we’re meeting our obligation.
• It is not a grave sin to withhold money from the church.
• It isn’t required that you show you’re on board with giving 10% of your income to the Catholic church before you can be baptized.

As for the Mormon idea that you should give and then if you need something the Mormon church will provide. Well, I view this as making a person dependent on a religious leader for survival. It registers on my own personal cult radar, but maybe that’s just me.

YES!

 

[TexanKnight]

we have a winner

Yes…we do

 

[TexanKnight]

Insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.”

It is obvious that I (and possibly some of the others) are not getting through to you or aspirant.

For me, I’m no longer going to try.

Peace.

Be patient. It is those who appear to welcome heresy that need our prayers the most. I hope I am just misunderstanding them. I am probably wrong.

 

[aspirant]

Mormonism isn’t, from a Catholic perspective, heresy. It is a different religion.

 

[TexanKnight]

Mormonism isn’t, from a Catholic perspective, heresy. It is a different religion.

U huh. That is why, unlike other “religions”, a Mormon baptism is not recognized.

And do some research on heresies. Look and see what beliefs were called who did not believe in the Trinity, or believed God was once a man…

let me help: Heresy

 

[aspirant]

And do some research on heresies.

Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Mormons, and so forth are not heretics. Non-Christians are not heretics, they’re simply non-Christians. In order to be a heretic, a person must be a validly baptized Christian who has not left Christianity.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

The Catechism is here quoting the Code of Canon Law of the Latin Church:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

 

[TexanKnight]

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”.

Heresy, in the sense of falling away from the Faith, became possible only after the Faith had been promulgated by Christ. Its advent is clearly foretold, Matthew 24:11, 23-26: " . . . many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. . . . (Joseph Smith, maybe?)

Heresy, being a deadly poison generated within the organism of the Church, must be ejected if she is to live and perform her task of continuing Christ’s work of salvation.

All of this was from Catholic Encyclopedia.

Then, if you look for tags of heresy on Catholic Answers, this article comes up…

catholic.com/tracts/distinctive-beliefs-of-the-mormon-church

Goes on to say what makes them heretical.

Again, you have never been LDS, so I understand you are speaking from a lack of knowledge…but they do NOT believe in the Trinity and their baptism is not accepted.

Heresy