How is this even possible?

[PetraG]

Nothing I have seen in 3+ years evidences that Republicans object to Trump lying. Except an occasional general statement about not liking lies that shifts to Democrats lie.

Oh, LOTS of Republicans have objected to Trump lying!
In the party, these are referred to as RINOs (by the supporters of a man who has changed his registered party affiliation 5 times).
Not a few now refer to themselves as former Republicans, though. When so much of the party embraces such brazen mendacity, there are not a lot of options left. I don’t think many are Democrats, though.

 

[Maximus1]

I see your point which I did not consider. There are many Republicans who considered habitual lying a deal breaker who have moved on as to Trump

 

[PetraG]

I see your point which I did not consider. There are many Republicans who considered habitual lying a deal breaker who have moved on as to Trump

I think the two major parties are both at the bursting point, and that’s without considering how much trouble lawmakers are having in hiding how disproportionate the influence of large contributors is even now–how much power the very few have over the many and how selfishly those few have been using that power. There are too many competing views of how we ought to live as a society to keep the competing views under just two umbrellas. The dam is ready to burst.

Politics is not about getting the most votes. It is about getting the most money and using it to the greatest effect to influence opinion–and manipulating opinion is more like it. This has always been true, of course, but the sheer magnitude of and pervasiveness with which mass communications drives public opinion is unprecedented. The data-gathering about opinions and the knowledge of opinion manipulation is unprecedented. The ability of the populace–even a single person!–to launch its own targeted communication initiatives is also unprecedented.

What COVID-19 can do is nothing compared to opinions can do. We’re sitting on a powder keg. No, we’re sitting on a weapons-grade communications system that cannot help but reach critical mass.

I’m most concerned that the reaction over the concentration of power in the hands of a selfish few might unleash another violent re-distribution into the hands of a different selfish few. You can even argue which “selfish few” are going to unleash things first, but I don’t see the popular reactions being kept at bay indefinitely. We saw that too many times last century. Who would nitpick over whether it would be worst if the false saviors were heirs of the Fascists or of the Communists?

A political system built on tolerance for lies that serve the political ambitions of one’s own position or party is the beginning of the end, though. If the people do not insist on truth and integrity from the leaders who champion even their own causes, we are toast.

Only the grace of Heaven can spare us from self-destruction…but I guess that has always been so, hasn’t it?

 

[Cathoholic]

PetraG . . .

He won’t stop until his base says, “Cut it out, already.

The base HAS said that.

But there is only so much “the base” can do.

Right now he is the best thing “the base” has going . . . by far.

If you don’t like it, work harder for your third party candidate or in the primaries.

 

[Cathoholic]

Maximus1. Nice equivocation.

Maximus1. . .

Trump communicated in " heel nippings" against Obama to reach office.

I’m not criticizing Biden for this.

I’m criticizing the media.

Here it is again . . .

Many times the media reports him as lying when there is no lying.

I don’t even mind the citizens doing it as long as they just admit it is partisan politics. And they also realize after awhile it gets to the point of diminishing returns.

After awhile partisan politics morphs into hurting the country.

 

[PetraG]

The base HAS said that.

But there is only so much “the base” can do.

Right now he is the best thing “the base” has going . . . by far.

If you don’t like it, work harder for your third party candidate or in the primaries.

What I see is desperate attempts to twist an obvious falsehood into something that Trump could have thought was true, even though Trump repeats the same thing over and over (which is not what you do when you have made an honest mistake, unless you can’t admit that you ever make mistakes, which is itself of course a falsehood).

It is discouraging to hear “work harder in the primaries” when the RNC made certain that no primary opposition was allowed. This kind of manuevering is what sitting Presidents do, but it only leaves the alternative of voting for a non-Republican. It is discouraging that the party has embraced his falsehoods.

 

[Cathoholic]

PetraG . . .

What I see is desperate attempts to twist an obvious falsehood into something that Trump could have thought was true . . .

That’s OK if you think that. But I am going to disagree.

I think there was zero chance Trump thought and was alluding to
Wuhan Corona Virus tests,
before the Wuhan Corona Virus was invented.

 

[PetraG]

I think there was zero chance Trump thought and was alluding to
Wuhan Corona Virus tests,
before the Wuhan Corona Virus was invented.

What truth was he alluding to? That is my question. He has repeated the same charge. It is not a simple misstatement. What true statement is he repeating that has any relevance to this pandemic?

Why would Republican voters not develop a distaste for his brand of “statesmanship” and the prospect of that man continuing as a public servant? We’re supposed to be bought off by “results” and not care about the means he uses to achieve them? As we used to say: “I don’t think so, Tim.”

 

[Cathoholic]

I told you. I don’t know what he was alluding to.

But I do know what he was NOT alluding to.

 

[PetraG]

Do you think there is anything wrong with reporters continuing to ask him to clarify?

 

[billsherman]

Wuhan Corona Virus

It would be more dignified if you called the virus by its correct name - COVID-19 - not by a name that is designed to blame China and Chinese people.

It seems like blatant xenophobia, or at least an attempt to blame the virus on some specific group.

Please use the proper name.

 

[PetraG]

It would be more dignified if you called the virus by its correct name - COVID-19 - not by a name that is designed to blame China and Chinese people.

It seems like blatant xenophobia, or at least an attempt to blame the virus on some specific group.

Please use the proper name.

No, the correct name of the virus itself is SARS-CoV-2.
(which stands for “severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2”)
The infection it causes has been officially named COVID-19.

Why do the virus and the disease have different names?
Viruses, and the diseases they cause, often have different names. For example, HIV is the virus that causes AIDS. People often know the name of a disease, but not the name of the virus that causes it.

There are different processes, and purposes, for naming viruses and diseases.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...ase-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

And no, it is not “blatant xenophobia” to refer to a disease by the first known location of a major outbreak. The problem with that usage is that the actual first location is theoretically subject to change, and it is misleading to associate a disease with a place in case that information needs to be updates (such as was the case for the Spanish flu, which did not originate in Spain).

Time will tell whether the Chinese Communist Party deserves responsibility for delaying the world response to the COVID-19 by deliberately spreading misinformation or thwarting those in the Chinese medical community who were attempting to give correct and timely warnings about the disease.

 

[billsherman]

No, the correct name of the virus itself is SARS-CoV-2.
(which stands for “severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2”)
The infection it causes is COVID-19.

You are correct. My point stands however.

Thank you for the correction!

 

[PetraG]

You are correct. My point stands however.

You are very right that it is wrong to assign blame in a xenophobic or race-related way (such as people who inexplicably attack businesses owned by persons of Asian descent out of misplaced anger about the disease) but it may eventually turn out to be appropriate to put responsibility for the pandemic on a campaign of politically-motivated misinformation and the stifling of correct reports. The great irony, of course, is that of course it would have been the people of Wuhan who would have been the first victims of a something like a misinformation campaign by their own government. The people of Wuhan don’t deserve any blame!

Yes, you are right that referring to the virus as the “Wuhan virus” or other names referring to the earliest known outbreak risks scapegoating the first victims of the disease.

Sometimes, after careful gathering of evidence, a verdict of blame that belongs to individual persons or organizations who justly bear some responsibility can be reached appropriately. That will come in time. You are right that it is currently not clear exactly who was responsible for what or why.

 

[Cathoholic]

billsherman telling me which virus nomenclature I should use . . . .

Please use the proper name.

I am.

billsherman impugning motives . . . .

by a name that is designed to blame China and Chinese people.

Non-sense.

You choose your nomenclature if you want billsherman.

But please realize you do not get to make those decisions for me.

 

[PetraG]

You choose your nomenclature if you want billsherman.

But please realize you do not get to make those decisions for me.

Well, actually, neither of you has some authority to name a disease or a virus. Both the virus and the disease have proper names. If you make up something else, that’s just some made-up nickname. It’s sloppy and, like the mis-naming of the Spanish Flu, it may entrench what turns out to be misinformation concerning the origin of the virus.

 

[Cathoholic]

Actually I do have authority to call it what I want.
You go ahead and call it whatever you want.

 

[PetraG]

Actually I do have authority to call it what I want.
You go ahead and call it whatever you want.

Real authority is different than presumed authority. Just because no one is stopping you does not mean you’re acting on any actual authority. You have no more authority to name a virus than Donald Trump has to give his unwelcome little pet nicknames to other people.

 

[Cathoholic]

PetraG . . .

Real authority is different than presumed authority.

Like someone presuming they have authority to state what nomenclature others can and cannot use.

 

[Pattylt]

I have no problem with those that call it the Wuhan virus. It lets me know exactly which side of politics they’re on. No guessing needed!