How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

[Nans]

Quote:
 	 		 			 				 					Originally Posted by **Cinette** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cag/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4103966#post4103966) 				
			*Yes sweetie and the Pope is your Pope too even though you do not acknowledge this.

Tough luck, I say!

*

Sweetie? But another example of the incredible rudeness of some here. I think there is such a thing as lack of humility? And Pride? ever heard of either? I think they are still considered sins in the Roman church as well as ours. Perhaps it’s been excluded so some of you can be so utterly uncharitable in your treatment of others.IIt’s really shameful how some of you act here

That kind of stuff turns me off as well, but honestly I have to say in real life I have met many, many wonderful and kinds hearted Catholics.

Some people are just not as mature in their faith. This can also be said of the protestant church, though… unfortunately.

 

[po18guy]

Well, I am a non-Catholic who is an ex-cradle Catholic who never will accept Catholicism again because I truly know what it is.

I rather think you never did know what it is. How on earth can you possibly claim to have found the complete truth in a church that is max 500 years old and which has deviated from even its founder’s beliefs? The newer denominations are all over the map as to the truth.

You could not have accepted the real presence. That must be your problem. Once you are enlightened to the real presence, no longer doubt, have spent time in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament, seen miracles happen, there is nowhere else to go. I don’t get your anger at the Church.

If you “know” what the Church is, please tell us! Your constant harping convinces us that your current faith is error.

Christ’s PEACE.

 

[po18guy]

As to the poll, it will take a sign that there is but one Church. This must come from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cinette]

That section of John is where I derive my view of “real presence” – along with Jesus’ words at the Lord’s Supper.

I do think the words of Christ from John you point to have another dimension (and is not limited to the Eucharist); however, that’s another issue altogether. For me it is enough to know the presence is real – not just symbolic & not only spiritual but physical and actual, which is the Methodist view & has been adopted by Presbyterians (at least the PCUSA & it’s offshoots). So this would be an area where I do disagree with Calvin.

Calvin is accused of trying to infuse too much “logic” into this matter – which is actually something I agree with. The Lord’s Supper is a mystery of faith. However, I would also say the RCC has gone too far in creating philosophical concepts to explain these mysteries. To quote Tertullian, “what does Athens have to do with Jerusalem”?

Blessings

You see Sola the difference between you and me can be explained in three little words: I don’t agree. For me Faith is not a matter of opinion or I agree or I don’t agree. Our beliefs, our sacraments are all linked to a central axis – the source.

The source is the establishment of the Church by Jesus. He appointed Peter and the Apostles to preach the good news, he gave them power “whatever you bind on earth……” “whose sins you shall forgive…….” “Make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father……” Jesus gave them a mandate. “He who listens to you listens to me” “and I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the powers of death shall not prevail against it” We mustn’t forget also, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me………and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” The Church is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Jesus always keeps his promises,

Jesus thought of everything. The Apostles were inspired. In the beginning they leaned heavily on Holy Tradition to pass on the Word and then the scriptures emanated from Tradition. The central authority of the Pope and the Magisterium is there to guide, keep us in check, teach, discern etc. They did not “invent” anything. They were guided by the Holy Spirit and are still guided by the Spirit. :clapping:

There were excesses and Luther and the other guys said No, I don’t agree and instead of joining in a counter revolution he opted out. Calvin was another guy who said “I don’t agree…… Henry VIII wanted his own way and said “I don’t agree” and declared himself the head of the church in England. Wesley was another fellow who said “I don’t agree” and so on and on and on. Each time someone didn’t agree he “planted a church” and so we see a whole plantation of churches everywhere. You also have the Mega churches and lots of hype.:whacky:

I am convinced that you are sincere and that you are part of a “sacramental” type church and my gut feeling is that you will keep on searching and maybe one day you might say “I agree”. Even if you don’t I am sure you are planting lots of good seed and that is very important.

When I think of Protestants I often feel so pleased that they too believe in the Trinity, the Resurrection, the Holy Spirit, and a whole lot of things we believe in also. I wish sometimes that we could join forces against the darkness of this world and we will – we have to. Unity is strength!

And so my friend Sola, I am unsubscribing from this thread but I will probably come across you again on another thread. :tiphat:

Our friend Thinks4Himself can be happy now - Ciao

 

[po18guy]

Through paradigm piracy, it could be done in under a year. I recommend that approach.

WARNING!!!
Mormon deception here!!! Do not believe the signature. It is no sin for Mormons to lie to you in defense of the LDS organization.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Nans]

FYI, Amen is mention at every Mass, and after every prayer we say. This tells me you don’t know not much about Catholism. Amen. Truth is, that Amen was said in the Church before the protestant reformation. I would say that Methodists sound like Catholic.

See Numbers 5:22 for the use of the word Amen. So I guess it was well before the Catholic church also.

It’s all about Jesus, and not about us. To God be the glory in each of our lives.

God bless you guys.

 

[ufamtobie]

See Numbers 5:22 for the use of the word Amen. So I guess it was well before the Catholic church also.

It’s all about Jesus, and not about us. To God be the glory in each of our lives.

God bless you guys.

Yes i know that the word Amen, was used long ago back to the Old testament. Amen.

True it is all about Jesus and the Church he left for us and that too is all about Jesus Christ.

God Bless you too

Ufamtobie

 

[anon52328184]

i believe “amen” is also used today in the synagogues at the conclusion of some prayers.

i know some preachers will shout - can i get an amen?!

even in everyday conversation, someone might make a comment and someone might respond with “amen”, kind of like i agree.

maybe i am repeating what others have posted. if i did, sorry.

 

[TriuneUnity]

i believe “amen” is also used today in the synagogues at the conclusion of some prayers.

i know some preachers will shout - can i get an amen?!

If the pastor did that in a Lutheran church, the congregation would whisper to him “we dont do that around here”

 

[anon52328184]

in the lutheran church you say amen at the end of the prayers, right?

i think mostly it is in the african american churches where they ask if they can get an amen.

at least that is what i have seen on tv. does that count as a source? LOL

 

[TriuneUnity]

in the lutheran church you say amen at the end of the prayers, right?

i think mostly it is in the african american churches where they ask if they can get an amen.

at least that is what i have seen on tv. does that count as a source? LOL

LOL…it might. I’ve been to a few of those churches and they do that.

Yeah, we say amen’s. Our prayers are pretty much the same as what is said in Mass.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Sola,

what makes you believe that only Baptists uses the word AMEN?

I was only kidding around

You know – when you’re channel surfing & check out those African American preachers (maybe you don’t stop to check it out … but I have). After every sentence … can I get an Amen. The repetition is honestly quite annoying.

I almost want to say yeah, you can get an Amen and $10 if you stop saying Amen so much; but of course it’s easier to just change channels. There’s this Asian preacher out there as well, whose actually pretty good, but he’s another one, after every sentence (I mean literally every few seconds) he says Amen.

Not that I don’t love Amen, but I fond of good old boring sermons and I’m just not the charismatic type. I’m just traditional like that.

Nothing wrong with it though, I’m just saying … I like Amen at the end of a prayer. I have sort of a high view toward liturgy (I should be speaking to the choir here no?).

Give me a good choir over a bunch of clapping people any day. Give me a nice organ and a good ancient melody. Heck I even like Gregorian chants and a good symphony (even though I’m protestant).

I also don’t mind contemporary services, in moderation though. I see good in every church, but stuff that annoys me as well from a cultural standpoint. Oh well … if I were a hyper Calvinist I’d probably rush over to the Orthodox Presbyterians – but I’m not all too keen on speculating about what God has in store for the reprobate, plus I’m somewhat of an N.T. Wright fan (though not completely) so I’d probably be a heretic

I’d be a Lutheran but they don’t think there will be a millennial kingdom (when there it is in black & white in Revelation) – even though I love Luther’s boldness (imagine if there were prozac back then, he would have been unstoppable).

Sorry, it’s late & I get maliciously sarcastic when I’m sleep deprived.

 

[palmas85]

I did not say that at all. I said that all Christians are part of the universal catholic church, meaning the body of Christ. I did not define Christians. I don’t exactly see your point in any case. I was merely remarking on the childish desire of a few here to rant that they are somehow better than everyone else. Pride and humility would suggest that that is not a proper path to take.

You said ALL Christians were part of the universal(catholic) church. 2 Peter Chapter 2 says something quite different. In fact, it is very specific in saying that error WILL enter the church and divide the Body of Christ. It also says that those that enter sneak in, sit beside the true believers and corrupt with their false doctrines.

I quote
"But there were also false prophets among the people,** just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies,** even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. **Many will follow their shameful ways **and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

I think it speaks for itself.

 

[sola_scriptura]

You said ALL Christians were part of the universal(catholic) church. 2 Peter Chapter 2 says something quite different. In fact, it is very specific in saying that error WILL enter the church and divide the Body of Christ. It also says that those that enter sneak in, sit beside the true believers and corrupt with their false doctrines.

I quote
"But there were also false prophets among the people,** just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies,** even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. **Many will follow their shameful ways **and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

I think it speaks for itself.

Indeed Peter did say that – and Paul made similar statements.

However, what if he was referring to you guys?

 

[jmcrae]

Indeed Peter did say that – and Paul made similar statements.

However, what if he was referring to you guys?

They were us - they were referring to the religions that would come later - the imitators of Catholic Christianity who pick and choose among the doctrines, which to accept and which to reject, based on their own personal desires.

By the way, I am reading a most fascinating book - The Defense of the Seven Sacraments, by King Henry VIII, in a new translation that has just been published by Raymond de Souza. It’s extremely readable; I am enjoying it very much, and I think you would, too.

 

[sola_scriptura]

They were us - they were referring to the religions that would come later - the imitators of Catholic Christianity who pick and choose among the doctrines, which to accept and which to reject, based on their own personal desires.

By the way, I am reading a most fascinating book - The Defense of the Seven Sacraments, by King Henry VIII, in a new translation that has just been published by Raymond de Souza. It’s extremely readable; I am enjoying it very much, and I think you would, too.

I’m always amazed that people would think I care what some King had to say about Christianity? I’m an American – my only king is Jesus.

Paul and Peter Catholic? The only actual known bishop Peter ever consecrated was Ignatius of “Antioch” (and the church at Antioch as gone through so many hands – I think there’s five churches that now claim to be the successor of Ignatius of Antioch).

 

[jmcrae]

I’m always amazed that people would think I care what some King had to say about Christianity? I’m an American – my only king is Jesus.

Did I say that you should care because he was a King?

Paul and Peter Catholic?

Yes.

The only actual known bishop Peter ever consecrated was Ignatius of “Antioch” (and the church at Antioch as gone through so many hands – I think there’s five churches that now claim to be the successor of Ignatius of Antioch).

One is enough to prove the case - but I am sure there were hundreds of others, as well.

 

[distracted]

it depends… on how much the person knows… and how much s/he loves Jesus…

To love Jesus means to love the Church He founded…

and the one in which He lives (Real Presence)…

 

[sola_scriptura]

it depends… on how much the person knows… and how much s/he loves Jesus…

To love Jesus means to love the Church He founded…

and the one in which He lives (Real Presence)…

Which church is that – the RCC or EOC? Also are you saying that God dwells in buildings or churches (as physical structures)?

*Acts 17:24-25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshiped with men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.

2 Corinthians 6:16-17 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.*

 

[Roy5]

HM! NOT AN EASY QUESTION

 You might say that I am a student of churches in that I have visited several hundred over the years, including Jewish synagogues, Buddhist and Hindu temples, Mormon services and countless Protestant churches. All this, of course, in addition to Mass. 

  My impression is that there is noticeable flow from one group to another, especially among Protestants who seem to have little problem jumping, say, from Presbyterian to Methodist and back again. But also movement between Catholic and Protestant. I often ask in casual conversation about the religious background of others around me. Many former Catholics now attend Protestant churches, both liberal and evangelical. Then there are those who leave Protestantism to embrace Catholicism.

   Why do Catholics leave the church? Various reasons. Sometimes marriage. Sometimes a bad experience with a priest or years before in parochial school. Sometimes they can't believe specific doctrines (e.g., related to Mary, or perhaps transubstantiation). Liberal ones tend to become Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans or others. Conservatives become Baptists or join such groups as the Assemblies of God or independent churches. Many former Catholics, of course, simply abandon organized religion.

    Why do Protestants become Catholic? Marriage probably is the main reason. Some like the rich liturgy of the church. Some like the concept of unity under the Pope. Some (especially in the innercity) attend parochial school where they learn about the faith. There are millions of those who identify as Protestants who rarely if ever attend church, perhaps at Easter.

     I don't think most non-Catholic Christians will ever become Catholic. Some feel it is too authoritarian and thereby incompatible with democracy. Others have taken special notice of the sex scandals among the priests. And Protestants tend to love their hymns, the family-like atmosphere in their churches (usually much smaller than Catholic churches here in the northeast), their married clergy, and often take pride in their freedom of thought. Their Bible classes frequently are discussion groups in which many different and even contradictory viewpoints are expressed and appreciated. I am referring to mainstream churches here.

 The principal enemy of the Christian faith - Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox - is a combination of modern secularism, skepticism, and indifference.