How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

[RobGentner]

Continuation of the previous post…

I use to be a Traditionalist Catholic so I know of your group very well.

** Frank, I actually belong to no “group”. You knew of a group in your church. Catholics and Protestants both agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” . We have no charismatic movement in my parish. I would guess there is in San Antonio somewhere. I need Jesus not fellowship to enter the Kingdom. Protestants need fellowship I guess. I enjoy it, I just don’t need it for my salvation! I have attended around 6 retreats since 1976 when I first became filled with the Holy Spirit. The last one was 3 weeks ago. This was an ACTS retreat **url]www.actsmovement.org ** They helped me refocus and be renewed spiritually… end of story! ** **

Nothing here was was a strike at you; just what I seen from my time in the Roman Church.

** I actually believe that Frank. please understand the same about things I say. “just what I seen from my time in the Roman Church” I guess it was from sitting in a pew, In love with the outward appearance not the inter beauty of the Church? Not realizing that Jesus was present in the Eucharist? Not knowing that by leaving you were throwing the baby out with the bath water? Seeking not to grow in your faith but not to change. Trying to regain the security of the way things use to be? I understand that. But I can’t understand abandoning Jesus the reason for the Church in the first plase. So that we could “join” Him at the last supper when he said “This is my body…” **

I use to be a Traditionalist Catholic so I very I know of your group very well. I’m not into waving my hands in the air thing.

** I am not a Casmatic Catholic. Not that I would judge them. If it isn’t forbidden, it is allowed in my eyes. I don’t wave my hands, But, I guess I would if I felt like it. I do thump my breast several times during the Mass. Remember that? I was taught that as a child. I do take the host on my Tongue. “The thing that makes me the saddest is watching people receive communion in the hand.” – Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta. I couldn’t agree more! She is one of my “heros” I wish I had her faith and love, I am a work in progress, I can’t wait to see what God has in store for me! ****

That is your churchs’ view and my church would say you’re RC is made an error. So the stand off goes on and on.

And we would have to say the EO church was wrong! Another point to let alone~

Before the Church of Rome started the Church of the East was well underway.

**Please, don’t attempt to change history. The Catholic Church was spreading around the world. 900 years after it was established the Eastern Orthodoxy(EO) broke away.The EO thereby started a New religion. based on the real church, but not the Church originally established by Jesus. It disobeys God’s teaching and establishes **

Wasn’t Saint Malachy who was born in Amagh Ireland in 1094, who prophecies about 112 popes since his time. Since his time you have had 111 Pope so far. Malachy said that the 112 pope would be the last and no more would follow. He said that Rome would be destroyed.

**Frank you are well read however misread
The prevailing view today by scholars is that they are elaborate forgeries, probably perpretrated by a school of Jesuits in the 1600s. They were know to do things like this to stur up trouble. This belief is based on the clear relation of the mottos to the various popes only up to that period, and the need to find oblique references (such as the motto of the Pope’s home diocese) to make the particular motto fit the particular pope. The inclusion of anti-popes would also appear to militate against the authenticity of the prophecies. Nevertheless, as each new conclave came and went, people who would not welcome the second coming of Jesus became a bit jittery since the list runs out soon! What my church believes: www.newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm **

Well let see if he is right or wrong.

**It is false teaching so it is WRONG! Mystery solved! **

… notice the Orthodox will go on like it has since the beginning.

** Frank you said that like it was a good thing! As a 1100 year old imitation of the Real Church, for what end? **

Have a great day.

** GOD BLESS YOU ,MY LOST BROTHER
Remember Jesus said: SEEK and YOU shall Find! **

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmcrae,

That is your churchs’ view and my church would say you’re RC is made an error. So the stand off goes on and on.

And what is the error? Do you say that St. Peter did not pass the office of the Papacy to St. Linus?

Before the Church of Rome started the Church of the East was well underway.

The Eastern Orthodox Churches got started in 1052 AD. There were six of them, each independent of all the others. So, we have our choice - One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in Rome, or Six Holy Catholic and Apostolic Churches, in the East. (The Nicene Creed tells us that there is only one.)

Wasn’t Saint Malachy who was born in Amagh Ireland in 1094, who prophecies about 112 popes since his time. Since his time you have had 111 Pope so far. Malachy said that the 112 pope would be the last and no more would follow. He said that Rome would be destroyed.

Has he been shown to be correct on anything, so far? Did he even exist, or was “The Prophecies of St. Malachy” just an elaborate school prank?

 

[Frank_J]

Hi

I stand by that the Orthodox Church came first and RC came second.

Here we stand at a stand still.

Would like to add to my remarks below

Think of this in France only twelve % are practicing Catholic religion 10% use the Tridentine Mass and 2% use Novus Ordo Mass.

On my statement that you see above tells you what was the mistake and what was the right road to take. Rome can never admitt to it. Think as the Tridentine Mass grows the Novus Ordo Mass Church get smaller and smaller. The Tridentine Mass in France are the ones that belong to the SSPX group. As Tridentine Mass grows it will over come the Novus Ordo Mass Church maybe in 70 years. It will bring to a close to the Novus Ordo. May I say “Rest In Peace”.

The Eastern Europeans are being see who important the Christian faith is and are going back to Church. It’s good to see the faith growing in that part of the world that was under slavery for over 70 year under the U.S.S.R.

Oh! don’t forget the growth of Islam in Italy and the rest of Western Europe. Who will be the first to embrace Islam will it be Rome may Paris or Berlin?? We know what is coming down the road for all of them. The writing is on the wall. Time is running out for all of them.

We will know in 30 or 40 years from now. Sharia Law is gunning for the west.

Why did I make a remarks about this. It was to kick in the teeth the Western Eurpeans for there anti-Christian stand. If they are not willing to live under Christian rule the so be it let them simmer in their juices.

They are like the ship Titanic and they are heading for the Iceberg.

Have a great day.

Frank

 

[Mannyfit75]

Well, I am a non-Catholic who is an ex-cradle Catholic who never will accept Catholicism again because I truly know what it is.

No you don’t. If you did know what the Catholic Church is, you would not leave it in the first place. Besides, no Protestants have Real Presence of Jesus Christ. They don’t even have valid Holy Orders.

It would better in my opinion that an Ex-Catholic join Eastern Orthodoxy than a Protestantism.

I have lost totally respect for Protestantism (not individuals) because their doctrines is far from the original. Protestantism brought nothing but confusing and conflicting doctrines based on the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. There is no central authority, every man is his or her own Pope… the sole interpreter of Scripture just because they claim “I have Holy Spirit.”

Indeed you do have the Holy Spirit but Scripture and Sacred Traditions shows that authority was granted to the Church itself not individual Christians.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi

I stand by that the Orthodox Church came first and RC came second.

Here we stand at a stand still.

Would like to add to my remarks below

Think of this in France only twelve % are practicing Catholic religion 10% use the Tridentine Mass and 2% use Novus Ordo Mass.

On my statement that you see above tells you what was the mistake and what was the right road to take. Rome can never admitt to it. Think as the Tridentine Mass grows the Novus Ordo Mass Church get smaller and smaller. The Tridentine Mass in France are the ones that belong to the SSPX group. As Tridentine Mass grows it will over come the Novus Ordo Mass Church maybe in 70 years. It will bring to a close to the Novus Ordo. May I say “Rest In Peace”.

The Eastern Europeans are being see who important the Christian faith is and are going back to Church. It’s good to see the faith growing in that part of the world that was under slavery for over 70 year under the U.S.S.R.

Oh! don’t forget the growth of Islam in Italy and the rest of Western Europe. Who will be the first to embrace Islam will it be Rome may Paris or Berlin?? We know what is coming down the road for all of them. The writing is on the wall. Time is running out for all of them.

We will know in 30 or 40 years from now. Sharia Law is gunning for the west.

Why did I make a remarks about this. It was to kick in the teeth the Western Eurpeans for there anti-Christian stand. If they are not willing to live under Christian rule the so be it let them simmer in their juices.
They are like the ship Titanic and they are heading for the Iceberg.

Have a great day.

Frank

In my opinion, I admire Eastern Orthodoxy because for the most part because their Liturgy remains unchanged and have valid Sacraments (7 of them), and valid Apostolic Succession. I revere them than I do Protestantism because they have no Apostolic Succession, and the majority of them have 2 or less sacraments.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That’s easy! 5,111,010,213 years. What kind of question is this? How can we actually project how long it’s going to take everyone to become Catholic? This is cookoo!

 

[East_and_West]

In my opinion, I admire Eastern Orthodoxy because for the most part because their Liturgy remains unchanged and have valid Sacraments (7 of them), and valid Apostolic Succession. I revere them than I do Protestantism because they have no Apostolic Succession, and the majority of them have 2 or less sacraments.

However, the Eastern Orthodox

1. Deny the Atonement of Jesus Christ
2. Pretty much deny reason
3. Deny Purgatory
4. Deny Original Sin
5. Deny the Beatific Vision
6. Deny the Papacy
7. Believe that the Sacred Heart of Jesus Devotion is heretical
8. Believe that Catholic Sacraments are invalid
9. Believe that the Catholic Church is in Heresy
10. Deny the Immaculate Conception of Mary
    etc, etc, etc. The Eastern Orthodox are just protestants who have happened to maintain Apostolic Succession.

 

[palmas85]

Well the Arian heresy lasted from around 300 up until the sixth or seventh century until it was wiped out so thats what, around four hundred years or so? The protestants have been around a little less than five hundred years and the Church isn’t really doing anything to bring them in, so I would guess it will take a good little while longer. The Orthodox have been around a lot longer longer and will more than likely never come home although there is small movement every now and then.

 

[pyreshadow]

How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

I think it will take less than 5 years for the majority of non-Catholics to accept Catholicism.

1. if i dont have to worship anything, however know that god is there
2. KNOWLEDGE!!! like put all the books back on the bible, faith is important as much as knowledge. faith by itself is not always the safest thing to do… (dont ask, cause you wont believe.)
3. accept that others have other paths and places to go besides “heaven/hell”

sooooooooo

…waiting
…
…hmmm i take that as a no.

not being rude or mean in anyway (and ahead of time, im Very sorry if this offends–im really not trying to, but the question is ask so i’ll answer by proving a point), but really darlings you have to understand that it really isnt for everyone. if i go to hell, well im S L aint i?

besides i help others out and show goodwill to mankind, i find silly to have to do more than that to find happiness. i know people that go to church and pray and have complete faith, and they beat their wife and children, dont help others out. and everyday they go to church and ask for forgiveness and some even mean it. sigh i think god would rather be ignored while others live in a peaceful world where people are good to each other than being worshiped by the crazies ( the ones who do bad things). not saying that no religions (i have one for sure) would make a better world, just saying that im sure god looks out for those who do great things for people too.

just a thought im not saying that i am right.

 

[RobGentner]

1. if i dont have to worship anything, however know that god is thereSorry He requires it of all His children
2. KNOWLEDGE!!! like put all the books back on the bible, faith is important as much as knowledge. faith by itself is not always the safest thing to do… (dont ask, cause you wont believe.)We believe to understand, not understand to believe. The Catholic Church has the Bible with All the books. We also have other writings and we tell stories also.
3. accept that others have other paths and places to go besides “heaven/hell” I am wondering what they might be. It is Heaven or Hell dear as Captain Kirk would say "The Final Frontier! ,

sooooooooo

…waiting
…
…hmmm i take that as a no.**It has to be God’s terms not ours so I figure it is an NO! **

not being rude or mean in anyway (and ahead of time, im Very sorry if this offends–im really not trying to, but the question is ask so i’ll answer by proving a point), but really darlings you have to understand that it really isnt for everyone. if i go to hell, well im S L aint i?** Yes you could say that I would say Damned for eternity, but S out of L is a valid description!**

besides i help others out and show goodwill to mankind, i find silly to have to do more than that to find happiness. **Commenable. There are two kinds of happiness temporal and eternal. Many people enjoy life, they may not enjoy their reward!**i know people that go to church and pray and have complete faith, and they beat their wife and children, dont help others out. and everyday they go to church and ask for forgiveness and some even mean it.**Dear I agree with your obervations, however trust me on this, they do not have complete faith and they don’t mean it when the ask for forgiveness. ** sigh i think god would rather be ignored while others live in a peaceful world where people are good to each other than being worshiped by the crazies We need God, He could do fine without us darling!( the ones who do bad things). **We call them crazies! **not saying that no religions (i have one for sure) would make a better world, **A Godless world? I shutter to imagine. I have been in some Godless country, they aren’t nice.**just saying that im sure god looks out for those who do great things for people too. **Yup! That is for sure! We can’t buy our way into heaven. But being kind (Not hitting wife and kids) feeding the poor, helping the sick, being a good person, and Loving God with youe entire heart, mind and soul and your neighbor as your self and accepting Jesus as your God and Savior is al yo need to be saved!

God Bless You. Thanks for your post. You have a kind heart, use it! **

just a thought im not saying that i am right.

 

[RobGentner]

That’s easy! 5,111,010,213 years. What kind of question is this? How can we actually project how long it’s going to take everyone to become Catholic? This is cookoo!

**
You don’t enjoy games at all do you? It isn’t a real question. It is a game to get people to make a guess. We all know the correct answer would be Eternity. The blind have a hard time regaining their eye sight unless Jesus helps them. He tries they deny? SIGH! We all know where the real Jesus is. He is in the Body of Christ, the RCC. Not a bad question…it made you look! **

 

[RobGentner]

Hi

I stand by that the Orthodox Church came first and RC came second.
**I must have you stand corrected: You are wrong! Period **
Here we stand at a stand still.
**So it would seem! **
Would like to add to my remarks below

Think of this in France only twelve % are practicing Catholic religion 10% use the Tridentine Mass and 2% use Novus Ordo Mass. **OK Got it! **

On my statement that you see above tells you what was the mistake and what was the right road to take. **Frank ever hear the majority of one theory?A ‘majority of one’ is the single voice that remains steadfast in the face of the majority of numbers. It relies on spiritual depth, and is committed to doing the correct thing not the popular thing! **Rome can never admitt to it. Think as the Tridentine Mass grows the Novus Ordo Mass Church get smaller and smaller. The Tridentine Mass in France are the ones that belong to the SSPX group. As Tridentine Mass grows it will over come the Novus Ordo Mass Church maybe in 70 years. It will bring to a close to the Novus Ordo. May I say “Rest In Peace”.**The RCC is coming back to both forms of the Mass. The Tridentine Mass never was suppose to be “eliminated” haven’t you read? **

The Eastern Europeans are being see who important the Christian faith is and are going back to Church. It’s good to see the faith growing in that part of the world that was under slavery for over 70 year under the U.S.S.R.They still had Christian Churches

Oh! don’t forget the growth of Islam in Italy and the rest of Western Europe. Who will be the first to embrace Islam will it be Rome may Paris or Berlin?? We know what is coming down the road for all of them. The writing is on the wall. Time is running out for all of them.**Lets pray you are wrong! **

We will know in 30 or 40 years from now. Sharia Law is gunning for the west.

Why did I make a remarks about this. **Lost your faith in God? **It was to kick in the teeth the Western Eurpeans for there anti-Christian stand. If they are not willing to live under Christian rule the so be it let them simmer in their juices.**And this worked how? **

They are like the ship Titanic and they are heading for the Iceberg.

Have a great day.

Frank

**There is always room at the real table of Christ, come on home! Jesus is waiting He really is!

Have a Blessed day! **

 

[Frank_J]

Hi RobGentner,

In this part of our talks covering the Tridentine Mass and would like to past it to this chat:

On my statement that you see above tells you what was the mistake and what was the right road to take.

Your answer:
Frank ever hear the majority of one theory?A ‘majority of one’ is the single voice that remains steadfast in the face of the majority of numbers. It relies on spiritual depth, and is committed to doing the correct thing not the popular thing!

My statement:
Rome can never admit to it. Think as the Tridentine Mass grows the Novus Ordo Mass Church get smaller and smaller. The Tridentine Mass in France are the ones that belong to the SSPX group. As Tridentine Mass grows it will over come the Novus Ordo Mass Church maybe in 70 years. It will bring to a close to the Novus Ordo. May I say “Rest In Peace”.

Your remarks:
The RCC is coming back to both forms of the Mass. The Tridentine Mass never was suppose to be “eliminated” haven’t you read?

I would like to say, if the Latin Tridentine Mass was never eliminated; then in what Catholic Church in the Boston, MA that was having it on a regular ? The only ones that I know of that were having the Tridentine Mass were being run by Traditionalists that were not part of the Novus Ordo Church.

Cardinal Law was dead set againist it right from the begining. He had to taken kicking and screaming to allow the Tridentine Mass.

Second, the new bishop that replaced Cardinal Law has closed Holy Trinity German Catholic, the Traditionalists that is run by FSSP wanted to run the Church and grow the group that was going there. They were turned down by the bishop of Boston and were kept out and refused. They were given the same run around that Cardinal Law did to them. I feel that you have error on that part. I know, for I was one of Traditionalists that attend Holy Trinity German Catholic in Boston.

If you asked the Traditionalists of that parish what they really think about the Novus Ordo Religionist running the parish. They would tell you that the Novus Ordo Religionist are not trusted what so ever.

I draw my view of Novus Ordo Religionist by my interaction with them during my time at that parish. If you were to ask me today what I think of the Novus Ordo Religionist. ??? I would answer with these words. I don’t trust them what so ever, and I viewed them as hostile in my view to what I onced held as part of my faith at that time. I’m not the only one how feel this way. The largest segment of the Traditionalists would agree with me. You can believe what you wish to believe but it will not change what Traditionalists think of your group.

If you think that the Traditionalists are ever going to change there views of Novus Ordo Religionist, hell would have to freeze over before that would ever happen.

I have more to say about this subject in my next chat.

Have a great day.

Frank J

 

[jmcrae]

Hi

I stand by that the Orthodox Church came first and RC came second.

Based on what evidence?

Think of this in France only twelve % are practicing Catholic religion 10% use the Tridentine Mass and 2% use Novus Ordo Mass.

This is completely irrelevant. The Catholic faith is not a democracy. Even if the Pope stands all alone in the whole world, he is still the successor of Peter and the guardian of the true faith of Jesus Christ - and everyone who does not follow him is still either a liar, or deceived.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi jmcrae

I never said that the Catholic faith was a democracy. Maybe if it was a democracy, it would be in the trouble it is at this time.

In my quote:

Think of this in France only twelve % are practicing Catholic religion 10% use the Tridentine Mass and 2% use Novus Ordo Mass.

This tells me that the Catholic Church is a fails in the proper way of running a Church. It was once said that if you wanted to mess something up just give it to a the U.S. Goverment it could mess a high mass. I would to say that if you wanted something mess up just give it to the Roman Catholic Church.

Numbers count when it comes to what works and what will not in a million years. What is happening in France is one of the best examples I could state. Just over lap this all over the world when it comes to the failing Novus Ordo Mass.

You can hold what ever view of your so called Pope as you like. It’s a free country unlike the Roman Church.

Going back to you comment covering the Catholic Church. In my statement on France I was showing that the Catholic Church made a error when it dumped the Tridentine Mass. Second I would say that the Pope Paul VI reason for trashing the Tridentine Mass was ill responsible and poor call on his head. To change the Mass so as to make it more acceptable to Protestant says’ alot.

This is completely irrelevant. The Catholic faith is not a democracy. Even if the Pope stands all alone in the whole world, he is still the successor of Peter and the guardian of the true faith of Jesus Christ - and everyone who does not follow him is still either a liar, or deceived.

You can hold what ever your views are but it will not change the drop in Mass attendance around the world.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi

Because of a very poor choice by Pope Paul VI on changing the Tridentine Mass to the Novus Ordo Mass only to make the Mass more expectable to Protestants was a very poor reason in my view.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmcrae

I never said that the Catholic faith was a democracy. Maybe if it was a democracy, it would be in the trouble it is at this time.

In my quote:

Think of this in France only twelve % are practicing Catholic religion 10% use the Tridentine Mass and 2% use Novus Ordo Mass.

This tells me that the Catholic Church is a fails in the proper way of running a Church.

No, no - it runs the Church just fine. What it fails to do is please the people with ear-tickling and pandering.

As to Mass attendance, what are we comparing today’s numbers to? Mass attendance varies according to the state of the society around it, independent of what sort of Mass is being held. There has also never been a time in history when 100% of Catholics were attending Sunday Mass and Holy Days of Obligation - there has always been a segment of Catholic society that didn’t think the rules applied to them.

 

[RobGentner]

…If you think that the Traditionalists are ever going to change there views of Novus Ordo Religionist, hell would have to freeze over before that would ever happen.**And they will be shoveling snow, If they don’t obey God and His church, and not give into their own desires, lusts, and opinions. The RCC is Gods TRUE church right or wrong. But, that is just my humble opinion! **

I have more to say about this subject in my next chat.

Have a great day.
**My short answer is: I agree with most things you said although some “general” statements can’t always hold true.

One thing that enters into this is the cost for the Bishops to have their priests learn latin.More time in the seminary. I am active with seminarian support in San Antonio. It takes from 5 to 10 years to become a priest here depending on educationalconsiderations. It is a financial thing to the Bishops. You can read, The church never eliminated the latin mass it allowed it to be offered in native languages and the Bishops jumped on it. Now it is being turned around once again. I actually don’t care. Jesus is there in the sacrament and as long as I can receive the True savior of the world, ,my soul is satified. No further discussion needed, but I know you have more to say on the sublect. Sounds like an idea for a new thread?

God Bless **

Frank J

 

[RobGentner]

No, no - it runs the Church just fine. What it fails to do is please the people with ear-tickling and pandering.

As to Mass attendance, what are we comparing today’s numbers to? Mass attendance varies according to the state of the society around it, independent of what sort of Mass is being held. There has also never been a time in history when 100% of Catholics were attending Sunday Mass and Holy Days of Obligation - there has always been a segment of Catholic society that didn’t think the rules applied to them.

**YOU MY FRIEND GET A BIG

AMEN!**

 

[RobGentner]

Based on what evidence?

This is completely irrelevant. The Catholic faith is not a democracy. Even if the Pope stands all alone in the whole world, he is still the successor of Peter and the guardian of the true faith of Jesus Christ - and everyone who does not follow him is still either a liar, or deceived.

**
Jmcrae, I told Frank the same thing by saying: “Frank, ever hear the majority of one theory? A ‘majority of one’ is the single voice that remains steadfast in the face of the majority of numbers. It relies on spiritual depth, and is committed to doing the correct thing not the popular thing!” He has his owe agenda, In his heart of hearts he know he was wrong leaving the TRCC. I think he is attempting to justify to himself, his departure off the correct trail to salvation because of a “minor” thing based totally on tradition, not on anything important. Petty, but to him important enough to risk his eternal soul. May God have mercy on all of us as we struggle with problems and crosses during our travel through this life. Blessings…**