How many Catholics think this way?

[MDK]

And if the Spanish Inquisition “might not” have happened, why did Pope John Paul 2 apologize for it in 2000 publicly, on behalf of the whole Catholic religion?

JP II did not apologize on behalf of the whole Catholic religion.

Please be a little more careful in terms of what is stated and implied. JP II apologized for the behavior of Christians (individuals) who were Catholic, which was appropriate. He did not apologize on behalf of the whole Catholic religion. He would never apologize for the Catholic religion, as that would be inappropriate.

 

[Kaninchen]

England, France, Germany, etc. were closer?

Jews were not let back into England until Cromwell’s time. Jews were expelled from France at the end of the 14th Century and not allowed back in until the early 17th Century (Marranos were allowed in earlier, however).

What ‘Germany’?

 

[minkymurph]

I hope I’m not going off in a tangent here, but I’d like to introduce some other thoughts in relation to this thread. I’ve read a lot of posts regarding the Inquision and things that happened during the Reformation and I’d like to discuss some thoughts pertaining to this century in relation to supressing other religions. There are practises within certain religions today that I believe are an infringment and in extreme cases an abuse of basic human rights. Should the Government intervene and pass legislation in relation to these practises?

To explain, I know the JW’s keep records of people without their knowledge. The people concerned are not allowed access to these files, even if they are aware of their existence. They keep door to door records, recording names addresses and details that many people may not be aware of and even if they are, they have no access to it. If an establishment other than a religious one where to do the same, they could wind up in court. I believe their process of disfellowshipping is also a breach of human rights. They are other religions who also have questionable practises in terms of human rights.

On another point, Glen Hoddle has to resign as Manager of the England football team as he stated publicly his religious belief that all disabled people where being punished for sin. I used to work with someone who believed that all mentally ill people are posessed by the Devil. You cannot pass a law that states no one is allowed to believe these things but in terms of religious freedom, do those who believe these things have a right to openly preach these beliefs? Should Muslims be allowed by law to have more than one wife? How far should governements go in relation to religious freedom and what should they use legislation to curtail?

From another perspective, I know of a Priest who was involved in an IRA bombing campaign in England. He admitted his involvement to another Priest years later who attempted to pursuade him over a period of time to go to the Police but he consistently refuesed which presented the Priest who knew of his involvement with a dilemha. To cut a long story short he broke his silence when the Priest who confessed to him died. Therefore, how far the law should to in relation to religious beliefs or practises is a very complicated and it would take a very brave politician to attempted to introduce legislation in relation to religious practises. What does anyone else think?

 

[Sepharad]

From another perspective, I know of a Priest who was involved in an IRA bombing campaign in England. He admitted his involvement to another Priest years later who attempted to pursuade him over a period of time to go to the Police but he consistently refuesed which presented the Priest who knew of his involvement with a dilemha. To cut a long story short he broke his silence when the Priest who confessed to him died. Therefore, how far the law should to in relation to religious beliefs or practises is a very complicated and it would take a very brave politician to attempted to introduce legislation in relation to religious practises. What does anyone else think?

Do you have any idea what year that bombing campaign took place in England? Because I lost a very dear penpal friend who died in an IRA bombing in London, in 1982. He was someone who was just an innocent bystander, on his lunch break as an administrator of a hospital.

To think that an ordained priest of the Catholic church could have havd anything to do with a bombing campaign that killed innocent human beings…I just have no words for that.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you have any idea what year that bombing campaign took place in England? Because I lost a very dear penpal friend who died in an IRA bombing in London, in 1982. He was someone who was just an innocent bystander, on his lunch break as an administrator of a hospital.

To think that an ordained priest of the Catholic church could have havd anything to do with a bombing campaign that killed innocent human beings…I just have no words for that.

War brings out atrocities - undeclared wars even more so.

In the spring of 2000, a group of Ulstermen (Protestant clergymen) shot down a group of Catholic schoolgirls, for using the sidewalk that went by their church as a shortcut to get to school after their lunch break.

 

[panoikei]

NIce try…but I suggest you be careful of the personal attacks, ok? Dont feel bad because I can actually think for myself and see the Truth. Maybe so opened to come back and awaken others.

coach, You sound so much like me just 2 years ago.

BTW: I see you say you’re “Rev. John”. Are you a preacher?

 

[panoikei]

actually I enjoy having these Protestants here with us it keeps me up on their latest interpretations and latest argument against the church so I don’t fall victim to them. It’s funny about the my Bible argument because the coach claims he’s never heard it but yet he used it in one of his previous posts. Because he said I read “my Bible” and how can you call your Bible “the Bible” when Protestants have removed books because they claim that they are not really part of the Bible so I think calling it the Bible is highly inaccurate because I know that was one thing that really surprised me when I came back home and actually learned what it means to be Catholic because I was not raised in the faith and one of the most shocking things I found was that Protestants had actually taken books out of the Bible I was stunned. So every time I hear arguments like these it just shows me again and again I’ve made the right decision by coming home.

So you like the “what’s happening now church”…wear you puffy wig and carry an oversized bible in your hand when you say that. I think you’d have to be multi-personality disordered to follow it because there are so many different interpretations. Talk thos Coach for example and then talk to everyone else in his congregration and you’ll have a completely differnt set of beleifs for everyone of them…bet ya…

 

[Dauphin]

I’m flattered that this whole big thread was made on the subject of my comments. I completely missed it!

Suffice it to say that I indeed think this way, since it’s the way Pope Pius IX thought and bound every Catholic to think using his Apostolic authority in Quanta Cura.

Of course, there have been some misrepresentations of the Catholic position on this thread. I urge everyone to read Quanta Cura carefully, and to understand that it does not involve the suppression of conscience of people who don’t adhere to the Catholic faith. It only requires the suppression of the public practice of false religions, taking into account the public good and any factors which would favour toleration.

 

[Aydan]

no you couldn’t be more incorrect. You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying here. What I’m saying is I have people even in my own family that don’t like the fact I am Catholic so I have to keep up on the latest argument so that when they come up with the Protestants I know I can give them the proper Catholic response. Regarding your Bible comments actually I have no less than two Catholic Bibles a catechism a Protestant study Bible and the one I use most frequently because nearly all of my friends are in the military my army Protestant Bible. Unfortunately they do not have a Catholic military Bible than I am aware of but since I pray daily that my friends come back from Iraq and Afghanistan I use that Bible to remind me that God is with them. When I need to read the Apocrypha I simply take out one of my Catholic Bibles. And as far asking other members of my congregation about their opinions I don’t need to because they’re the ones that have raised me in the faith and taught me what it really means to be Catholic. I don’t need to ask people like the coach to understand his argument because my own godparent is a former Catholic who is now against the church so I have more than enough access to that information.

So you like the “what’s happening now church”…wear you puffy wig and carry an oversized bible in your hand when you say that. I think you’d have to be multi-personality disordered to follow it because there are so many different interpretations. Talk thos Coach for example and then talk to everyone else in his congregration and you’ll have a completely differnt set of beleifs for everyone of them…bet ya…

 

[peary]

Okay I except your explanation on the Israeli government. However it is not up to me to provide to prove because I’m not the one that said Christians have persecuted thousands of Jews over the past 2000 years which I interpret as still going on today because you did not say historically or anything like that so that’s why I asked you if you are asserting that Christians still persecute Jews actively today please provide proof of that.
It’s funny you’re making the same argument about Jews saying it was only a few of them who persecuted Christians on a very limited basis when we are trying to make the same argument about Christians persecuting Jews but yet you still seem to want to blame the church and in doing so blame all Catholics. I simply do not understand your logic here.

What about Muslims persecuting Christians…and Jews? I haven’t heard any whining about that in here.

 

[Aydan]

well my bad I just reread your post I didn’t realize you might be joking see what living as only one of two Catholics does to a person. you should really try it sometime you get used to all the different interpretations after a while but seriously as you can tell from my last post it make you pretty defensive as well. Especially when you’re being told on a regular basis by Protestants outside of my family thankfully that I’m not a true Christian sorry that’s what I thought you were doing at first saying I wasn’t a faithful Catholic or something like that.

QUOTE=Aydan;3977529]no you couldn’t be more incorrect. You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying here. What I’m saying is I have people even in my own family that don’t like the fact I am Catholic so I have to keep up on the latest argument so that when they come up with the Protestants I know I can give them the proper Catholic response. Regarding your Bible comments actually I have no less than two Catholic Bibles a catechism a Protestant study Bible and the one I use most frequently because nearly all of my friends are in the military my army Protestant Bible. Unfortunately they do not have a Catholic military Bible than I am aware of but since I pray daily that my friends come back from Iraq and Afghanistan I use that Bible to remind me that God is with them. When I need to read the Apocrypha I simply take out one of my Catholic Bibles. And as far asking other members of my congregation about their opinions I don’t need to because they’re the ones that have raised me in the faith and taught me what it really means to be Catholic. I don’t need to ask people like the coach to understand his argument because my own godparent is a former Catholic who is now against the church so I have more than enough access to that information.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

How many Catholics feel that in an “ideal” society, their church should have the authority to suppress non-Catholic religions and impose their beliefs onto others?

I don’t think this way…I honestly don’t now how any person can. I have no idea how such an approach to politics/social institutions could be deduced from the Gospel.

 

[Dauphin]

I don’t think this way…I honestly don’t now how any person can. I have no idea how such an approach to politics/social institutions could be deduced from the Gospel.

That’s because the position he described is a straw-man. The Catholic Church has never taught that faith is something to be “imposed” or that people are to be coerced into joining the Church.

 

[panoikei]

no you couldn’t be more incorrect. You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying here. What I’m saying is I have people even in my own family that don’t like the fact I am Catholic so I have to keep up on the latest argument so that when they come up with the Protestants I know I can give them the proper Catholic response.

I wasn’t directing those responses to you. to the OP…I find very few Catholics that actually study the bible. The only reason I think I studied it so much as a teen was that 2/3rds of my large family consiting of mom and dad’s families are Protestant…anti-Catholic in fact. Many deacons and elders in mom’s family. My wife’s entire family are Protestant…Bishops/elders, deacons and preachers…lots of them. I was planning ot be a preacher. My anti-Catholic wife came to know the truth at the same time in late 2006. I left the Catholic faith when I was 28 and came back with my wife and 3 children. The oldest is discerning the priesthood like I did years ago. Unless you actually apply yourself and find the truth you will wonder about like a blind person…thinking you know where you’re at and then you begin to see the beauty of the Church in the Fullness of Christ…in the Catholic Church…not some ecclesial community that professes erroniously to be a church… If you carefully read your scriptures you will come to know the truth. Most Protestant faiths approach the bible trying to support what they believe rather than to approach it from trying to learn the truth…why? Because they already think they know the truth. If you listen and study apologetics and theology you begin to understand that the only Church out there standing up for the dignity of the human person is the Catholic Church…

 

[Jordan_Francis]

I read some of your other statements though regarding this question…ie. error has no rights.

I have friends who practice other faiths that, though disagreeing with in many respects, I nonetheless respect. The idea of supporting a government that would suppress their religion and prevent them from worshiping at the Hindu Temple or the Mosque is…repulsive to me.

 

[Dauphin]

I read some of your other statements though regarding this question…ie. error has no rights.

I have friends who practice other faiths that, though disagreeing with in many respects, I nonetheless respect. The idea of supporting a government that would suppress their religion and prevent them from worshiping at the Hindu Temple or the Mosque is…repulsive to me.

Liberalism has a hold on alot of people. I still struggle with it sometimes.

A year ago, I probably would have smacked myself for believing what I believe now about religious liberty, but all I’ve done is get in line with the Popes!

 

[ChristianKnight]

I do not care if anyone agrees, but if you agree to oppress a people, do not get angry when they fight back.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Not everything of liberalism is bad. I have my issues with “modernism” and “liberalism” too…

But in the end it seems somehow un-Catholic to me to look at a human phenomenon such as liberalism through the lenses of total depravity: that it is so utterly lost that there is nothing left in it that we can co-operate with.

 

[Dauphin]

I do not care if anyone agrees, but if you agree to oppress a people, do not get angry when they fight back.

I’m sure it’ll be a bright day in hell when the United States shreds its constitution and becomes a Catholic State.

Much of the writings of the 19th century are now of only theoretical value. Time will have to last alot longer if the practical circumstance which allow for a Catholic State are to be restored.

 

[ChristianKnight]

I’m sure it’ll be a bright day in hell when the United States shreds its constitution and becomes a Catholic State.

Much of the writings of the 19th century are now of only theoretical value. Time will have to last alot longer if the practical circumstance which allow for a Catholic State are to be restored.

I do not remember the USA being a Catholic State, or are you talking about something else?