Wouldn’t the punishment be the same as it is now for someone trying to hire someone to murder?
How many Catholics would vote for full legal implementation of Church teaching on abortion?
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krayzevuze
Guest
very interesting, I definitely would not support it if the first three things were put on. I wonder what the penalty ought to be then… if it were “outlawed”
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FiveLinden
Guest
I have always wondered about the pro-life movement in the west opposing punishment for the women they consider have ‘murdered’. In some cases these same people support the death penalty for people who murder born human beings.
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krayzevuze
Guest
it’s a weird issue, in some ways I think it is because all think less of abortion than the murder of a more developed human, because people all care and love things closer to likeness to them. I think the Bible says this and also philosophers, love being made from likeness. also I oppose death penalty and I could hardly bear the thought of jailing someone who even murdered my family for 5 years, the whole thing seems very cruel to me, so much less would I support the jailing of someone for procuring an abortion or performing one
Let the punishment fit the crime:
A. Murder in the 1st for the doctor.
B. Murder in the 1st for the mother.
C. Murder in the 1st for the father. (If applicable, example: the father is in complete agreement with the mother and or helps procure illegal abortion).
D. Manslaughter for those involved in an illegal abortion (example: nurse/nurses).
Also various charges, for example: 3rd party with knowledge of when illegal abortion is set to take place, but no action taken to prevent it.
Of course there can be various determining factors involved, all of which would be worked out in the courts and justice system, as with any law that is broken.
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mythbuster1
Guest
I agree, and further, that the mandatory sentence be life without parole, as any premeditated murder is punished by life imprisonment or death.
Absolutely.
Obviously there would be many, many determining factors that can change the circumstances of who gets charged with what, for example:
If a mentally disabled woman becomes pregnant and her parent/guardian decides that it is best for her to get an illegal abortion, then the parent/guardian would be charged, not the mentally disabled woman.
Obviously there would be many, many determining factors that can change the circumstances of who gets charged with what, for example:
If a mentally disabled woman becomes pregnant and her parent/guardian decides that it is best for her to get an illegal abortion, then the parent/guardian would be charged, not the mentally disabled woman.
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chercheur
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I would be for a general legal implementation of the church teaching on abortion, but probably not an “absolute” implementation (i.e. legality would be evaluated on a case by case basis leading to some exceptions). I am aware that this kind of take on law is not really practical. A full implementation would be preferable to certain alternatives though, I think.
I’m not a Catholic, for the record.
I’m not a Catholic, for the record.
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mythbuster1
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Someone who actively participates in a murder is an accomplice or co-conspirator, subject to the same penalty as the one who actually does the killing. Someone who helps cover up the crime is an accessory, subject to penalties one tier below that of the principals. Accessory to 1st degree murder generally carries 25 to life.
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mythbuster1
Guest
In most states, the only sentencing discretion for first degree murder is life without parole vs. death.
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krayzevuze
Guest
do you feel as strongly about this as a murder in the common news-media sense, or is this born of the teaching/dogma/doctrine (not using any of those words in a bad way since I believe them all also and hold them to be perfect)? this question is not meant to antagonize, but it is meant to assess myself and my own feelings vs other catholics
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mythbuster1
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Which is why we support your right to defend yourself with deadly force against an attempted rape, but it is written, “You shall not put the son to death for the crime of the father.”
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Servant31
Guest
- Definitely agree.
- I’m guessing around 15%
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Pattylt
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If Jane Smith was 13 years old, does her father have a right to murder the rapist! We can say no, of course not, but would you feel a jury should sentence him like any other murderer? Are any fathers out there absolute certain they wouldn’t murder the rapist?
I’m not really trying to challenge anyone other than to think about various scenarios…
I have no problem with this.
I feel as though murder is murder, I think a woman getting an abortion because a pregnancy is unwanted is the exact same as a man murdering his wife simply because he is no longer attracted to her and wants out of his marriage.
There are morally superior answers to both situations:
The husband that is no longer attracted to his wife and wants out can separate/divorce her, separation and divorce aren’t pretty and are going to cost the husband greatly, but there are consequences for our actions (in this husband’s case the consequences of getting married and then deciding to separate/divorce from his wife because he is no longer attracted to her, is that it may cost this man his house and all of his savings), but I think we can both agree that this is right way to go vs murdering his wife.
Similarly the woman who is unexpectedly pregnant with a baby she doesn’t want, should deliver the baby and give it up for adoption, the consequences of sex should come to no surprise leads to pregnancy.
Now I know that sometimes life is unfair and we have rare cases (1% or less I believe) such as rape, where a woman is impregnated through no fault of their own, but unfortunately that is a burden these women have to bear, in cases such as these I would refer you to my tale in a previous post about John Doe raping Jane Smith.
Speaking as a father of two beautiful little girls (one of which is mentally disabled) I cannot honestly tell you what I’d do in the heat of the moment, to the (theoretical) SOB that raped my 13 year old, (in actuality my girls are younger than this) daughter, I could only say that I would pray for forgiveness, guidance and beg my lord for mercy and justice, in that situation.
But in that situation would I, as the father of the raped 13 year old girl, have the right to murder him? Absolutely not. Would I murder that man, honestly as a father idk, but I know for a fact it wouldn’t be my right.
But what I can tell you as a father, is that if either one of my daughters became impregnated by a rapist, I would vehemently advocate against the abortion (murder) of that innocent child.
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krayzevuze
Guest
very interesting, thank you. I agree ofc that those are better options for each case, and the rape one is just another Cross, although I do not exactly have the instinct to punish it equally to outright murder of a more developed human, or even infant, but I understand
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Pattylt
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Thank you for honestly answering the question. I’m female but I too, struggle to answer the question. I’m also not religious, though I am anti abortion but in the case of pregnancy from rape, I would allow the choice. Especially for a minor.
Rape is so traumatic that while some women can recover and accept the child, often they cannot. I think forcing a rape victim to carry to term can be so cruel as to allow for abortion in those very rare cases.
Rape is so traumatic that while some women can recover and accept the child, often they cannot. I think forcing a rape victim to carry to term can be so cruel as to allow for abortion in those very rare cases.
No problem, but honestly just thinking about having to deal with that situation, if it was my daughter, gets my blood boiling and nerves going, or put as my extended family would say it “it gets my irish up”, but I am double irish and married to a girl who is double irish, so go figure.
It most certainly would be an extremely heavy cross to bear.
Well this is where you and I would differ, while yes it would be an extremely hard situation to deal with, it doesn’t follow that, because you’ve been presented with an extremely hard, heartbreakingly emotional situation, that you are then given a free pass on murder.
Peace be with you @Pattylt
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Pattylt
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As long as you can also accept the destruction of the mind of the 13 yo girl and that she may never recover and be whole again. I’m not willing to accept that and it’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t ever presume to tell you otherwise. Thank goodness it’s as rare as it is!
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