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JMJ_coder
Guest
Yes, I am.
How Many Here Would Attend The Traditional Latin Mass If It Were Available ?
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J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Right. The Byzantine Rite’s two anaphora’s are essentially two completely different Liturgies. But, there is still more variety in those two than in one single anaphora in the EF. Actually, there is in both Rites (and in the others) the Liturgy of the Presanctified, but as there technically isn’t a complete anaphora I guess they don’t count.
If we look to more Oriental Rites, such as the Maronite, the various anaphoras look more like what we have now in the OF. Actually, from what I’ve read the addition of the other Canons in the OF was in part to emulate them in this regard.
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ProVobis
Guest
Indeed. The Eastern Rites didn’t help develop Western civilization very much.
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CDNowak
Guest
My point was, walking into any Byzantine or EF parish, you know exactly what prayers will be said (which, combined with the modern composition of the OF EPs).
Side note, it is bizarre to refer to the Rule (ie, Canon) of the Mass in the plural. If it is the set part of the Mass there only is one.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
But, as I’ve pointed out, this isn’t historically absolute. Even in the Western Churches there was much more variety before Trent. And in the very early Church the Liturgy may have changed even from celebration to celebration as there was not set text, each Bishop would compose his own prayers around the general framework of Liturgy of the Word and Liturgy of the Eucharist (as we call them now).
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Ockham
Guest
Perhaps folks in North East Ohio don’t get out much, but there is this whole big thing known as Planet Earth you are ignoring.
Even in my own country I have attended Mass in several differenet languages. It would be much more convenient if Mass was offered in the official language of the Church instead of whatever local variation is in vogue that particular day.
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CDNowak
Guest
But the books used were consistent (antiquarianism aside). Diversity is not the same as variation within a Rite, much less whimsical variation.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Don’t kid yourself, I’ve gotten around. I’ve been to Masses in many languages aside from English and I’ve never had a problem knowing what was generally going on. I might not have know what exactly was being said in the case of propers and readings, but I’d have that same problem with Latin, too, without a Missal.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Not in the early Church. There was so much variation from one place to the next, in part because there was not consolidation of Liturgical praxis as of yet.But the books used were consistent (antiquarianism aside). Diversity is not the same as variation within a Rite, much less whimsical variation.
I don’t know what you mean by consistent.
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roadsend
Guest
Could you point me to an authoritative source that says praying the Rosary at Mass while the music group sings is not allowed?
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ProVobis
Guest
What if you just got out of confession and your penance was to say a rosary or even a decade?
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MarkThompson
Guest
Hopefully we can agree that although saying the rosary (or sleeping, or texting your bff) is not banned during Mass, it’s not a particularly good thing if the liturgy encourages it. Just like showing up in informal/dress-down clothes shouldn’t bar a person from the church, but it’s a better thing if the overall atmosphere of the church and quality of the liturgy encourages them to show up in Sunday best.
It’s a bit of a false dichotomy to say, “Better that the old woman is praying a rosary than not paying attention or being prayerful at all.” That’s true, but better still would be if she prayed the rosary before or after Mass, but during the Mass was fully engaged in the liturgy according to her station.
It’s a bit of a false dichotomy to say, “Better that the old woman is praying a rosary than not paying attention or being prayerful at all.” That’s true, but better still would be if she prayed the rosary before or after Mass, but during the Mass was fully engaged in the liturgy according to her station.
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choy
Guest
i know exactly where the FSSP Parish is in Vancouver
but thats the thing. i don’t see the necessity for me to be there. can you honestly come up to any priest and tell him that the OF mass is half-baked? to those who are there in full attendance (body, mind, soul) can you honestly say they’re giving less than 100% to God, and God in return is only giving them less than 100%?
see, thats what i’ve been trying to say here. the OF is not better than the EF, neither is the EF better than the OF. they both are equal, none better than the other. i got into this EF vs OF thing because i was inspired by this website of a Byzantine Catholic parish here in Vancouver, who compared the difference between the Byzantine Rite and the Latin Rite. after listing all the differences, at the bottom they said something beautiful. both Rites are Catholic, none is greater than the other. can’t we have the same attitude towards the OF and EF?
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choy
Guest
i can’t speak for your Bishop, but if it were me and based on my project planning experience, if you can justify the cost of something, then its worth doing. if you think that you can justify the feasibility of a TLM mass in your own parish, then why don’t you put forth the paper work and send it to the Bishop? the problem is what if the Bishop goes out of his way, sets up the TLM, incurs expenses, then only 20 people show up?
if you really want it and you think you really have the numbers, then justify it with a feasibility study and send it to your bishop. if something is that well thought of and well planned, i don’t see why he won’t grant such a request
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Cat
Guest
This is rude and uncharitable. I apologize to the poster on your behalf. Not everyone is good at writing.CouldyoudousafavorandpleaseatleastwriteinEnglish?
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Cat
Guest
This is an upsetting post.
As long as the sinners are in Mass, they could be convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit Who works through the Word of God to bring people to a knowledge of and repentance for their sins. Then they could seek the Sacrament of Reconciliation and be fully restored to grace.
But if they are not at Mass, it is much more difficult for the Holy Spirit to reach them. Yes, He can do anything because He is God and all things are possible with God.
But the Mass is where the sinner is surrounded by the things of God in song, picture, print, words, and deeds, and where angels and saints themselves are present at the altar praying for all of us. The very Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is re-presented during Mass. It seems much more likely that a hardened sinner will come back to God at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass than out in the sinful world.
I think that as Christians, more than anything, we should desire the salvation of ALL souls, even at the cost of our own comfort and happiness.
Oh, my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of Thy mercy.
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momof8
Guest
I was going to say I would attend if one were available, but then I realized one is available but I don’t attend! There are two available in our area on Sundays and they are at times and places that would be difficult for us to attend. Just last Friday I was in Toronto for a son’s hockey tournament and was pleased to find a church that offered daily Mass in Latin. We tried to go but I never was able to find Dundas Street off of Keele. 
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Viceroy
Guest
Do you know the name of the church? That intersection is close to St. Vincent de Paul on Roncesvalles Ave. Dundas West becomes Roncesvalles south of Bloor St. I was there for Holy Thursday and Good Friday this past Easter. Very nice church, the Thursday Mass was Novus Ordo. but the communion rail is still used by all. If I didn’t live on the other side of T.O. I would make it my home church, but I already travel an hour to get to the closest TLM.I was going to say I would attend if one were available, but then I realized one is available but I don’t attend! There are two available in our area on Sundays and they are at times and places that would be difficult for us to attend. Just last Friday I was in Toronto for a son’s hockey tournament and was pleased to find a church that offered daily Mass in Latin. We tried to go but I never was able to find Dundas Street off of Keele.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Certainly. From Pope Paul VI’s Apostolic Exhortation Marialis Cultus:
31…Secondly there are those who, without wholesome liturgical and pastoral criteria, mix practices of piety and liturgical acts in hybrid celebrations. It sometimes happens that novenas or similar practices of piety are inserted into the very celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice. This creates the danger that the Lord’s Memorial Rite, instead of being the culmination of the meeting of the Christian community, becomes the occasion, as it were, for devotional practices. For those who act in this way we wish to recall the rule laid down by the Council prescribing that** exercises of piety should be harmonized with the liturgy not merged into it**…
48…[the Rosary] does not, however, become part of the liturgy. In fact, meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary, by familiaring the hearts and minds of the faithful with the mysteries of Christ, can be an excellent preparation for the creation of those same mysteries in the liturgical action and an also become a continuing echo thereof. However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there…
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