How many were killed?

[Libertarian_FL]

That is complete bull.

If one Bishop, Cardinal, Priest took part in any Inqusition it was the Roman Catholic Chruch supporting it. The fact no Pope stopped this outrage with a clear ban is enough for me to say the Church cleary supported it. I will note there was a few the Holy Roman Empire in the center of Italy kept up an Inquistion far after the Spanish did if I recall correctly.

Not excusing the Protestants either they were just as evil at times.

I would however say killing one would be to many since JESUS you know the one we are supposed to look up to never said to KILL a heretic, the Roman Catholics just made that up. And the English purge of Catholics was not any better. But the actual numbers are hard to come down with.

 

[adstrinity]

Torquemada - do not beg him for mercy. Torquemada - do not ask him for forgiveness. Let’s face it - you can’t Torquemada anything!

Apparently I love comma splices too, in addition to ellipses…

Please remember that before any Protestant laid hands on a Catholic under Elizabeth, many hundreds of Protestants were killed under Mary I (Bloody Mary), and these included three saintly bishops, Archbishop Cranmer, and Bishops Ridley and Lattimer.

Protestants killed under Bloody Mary: 283

Catholics killed under Good Queen Bess: 800

rev-know-it-all.com/2007/2007—05-27.html

Incidentally, that link is the second in a 2 part answer about the Inquisitions…

 

[kalt]

Thank you to those of you who answered the question.

USSR. Bloody Mary. One is too many. Oi!

 

[Lutheranteach]

I’m more intrigued and feel the church has never done enough to apologize for the Church involved genocide that happened in Croatia in the 1940s.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Another result from the third lie (Lies, damn lies, and statistics)

Under Mary, her 5.3 year reign had an average of 53 Protestants killed per year.

Under Elizabeth, her 44.4 year reign had an average of 18 Catholics killed per year.

This shows that Mary, given her short reign, couldn’t be expected to kill as many as Elizabeth. She simply didn’t have the time. If she had had the 44.4 years that Elizabeth had, she could have done away with 2,307 Protestants. That would take care of all the bishops, and most or all of the clergy.

So give old Queen Bloody Mary a break.

Ecumenical relations weren’t the same back then.

Protestants killed under Bloody Mary: 283

Catholics killed under Good Queen Bess: 800

rev-know-it-all.com/2007/2007—05-27.html

Incidentally, that link is the second in a 2 part answer about the Inquisitions…

 

[Linda_Marie]

But in recent years the Inquisition has been subject to greater investigation. In preparation for the Jubilee in 2000, Pope John Paul II wanted to find out just what happened during the time of the Inquisition’s (the institution’s) existence. In 1998 the Vatican opened the archives of the Holy Office (the modern successor to the Inquisition) to a team of 30 scholars from around the world. Now at last the scholars have made their report, an 800-page tome that was unveiled at a press conference in Rome on Tuesday. Its most startling conclusion is that the Inquisition was not so bad after all. Torture was rare and only about 1 percent of those brought before the Spanish Inquisition were actually executed.

The Inquisition was not born out of desire to crush diversity or oppress people; it was rather an attempt to stop unjust executions. Yes, you read that correctly. Heresy was a crime against the state. Roman law in the Code of Justinian made it a capital offense. Rulers, whose authority was believed to come from God, had no patience for heretics. Neither did common people, who saw them as dangerous outsiders who would bring down divine wrath. When someone was accused of heresy in the early Middle Ages, they were brought to the local lord for judgment, just as if they had stolen a pig or damaged shrubbery (really, it was a serious crime in England). Yet in contrast to those crimes, it was not so easy to discern whether the accused was really a heretic. For starters, one needed some basic theological training — something most medieval lords sorely lacked. The result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent assessment of the validity of the charge.

The Catholic Church’s response to this problem was the Inquisition, first instituted by Pope Lucius III in 1184. It was born out of a need to provide fair trials for accused heretics using laws of evidence and presided over by knowledgeable judges. From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death. From the perspective of the Church, however, heretics were lost sheep who had strayed from the flock. As shepherds, the pope and bishops had a duty to bring them back into the fold, just as the Good Shepherd had commanded them. So, while medieval secular leaders were trying to safeguard their kingdoms, the Church was trying to save souls. The Inquisition provided a means for heretics to escape death and return to the community.
old.nationalreview.com/comment/madden200406181026.asp

guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/16/artsandhumanities.internationaleducationnews

But according to Professor Agostino Borromeo, a historian of Catholicism at the Sapienza University in Rome and curator of the 783-page volume released yesterday, only 1% of the 125,000 people tried by church tribunals as suspected heretics in Spain were executed.

Other experts told journalists at the Vatican yesterday that many of the thousands of executions conventionally attributed to the church were in fact carried out by non-church tribunals.

 

[AngloCatholic1]

Another result from the third lie (Lies, damn lies, and statistics)

Under Mary, her 5.3 year reign had an average of 53 Protestants killed per year.

Under Elizabeth, her 44.4 year reign had an average of 18 Catholics killed per year.

This shows that Mary, given her short reign, couldn’t be expected to kill as many as Elizabeth. She simply didn’t have the time. If she had had the 44.4 years that Elizabeth had, she could have done away with 2,307 Protestants. That would take care of all the bishops, and most or all of the clergy.

So give old Queen Bloody Mary a break.

Ecumenical relations weren’t the same back then.

Mary may have run out of time trying to rid the world of those who would seek to divide the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church… but God won’t!

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Mary may have run out of time trying to rid the world of those who would seek to divide the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church… but God won’t!

I don’t think we can extrapolate from recent genocides which side the Almighty prefers.

 

[zz912]

That is complete bull.

If one Bishop, Cardinal, Priest took part in any Inqusition it was the Roman Catholic Chruch supporting it. The fact no Pope stopped this outrage with a clear ban is enough for me to say the Church cleary supported it. I will note there was a few the Holy Roman Empire in the center of Italy kept up an Inquistion far after the Spanish did if I recall correctly.

Not excusing the Protestants either they were just as evil at times.

I would however say killing one would be to many since JESUS you know the one we are supposed to look up to never said to KILL a heretic, the Roman Catholics just made that up. And the English purge of Catholics was not any better. But the actual numbers are hard to come down with.

You have a glaring ignorance of history and of papal power throughout history. See a few posts above to gain some better insight.

 

[puzzleannie]

we have gone off topic, and most of what has been reported is not even close to the truth
if OP is really interested here is the result of a search on “inquisition” see the first thread listed especially
forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=6139090
you have to wade through a lot of schlock just like this thread but the answers are there
you will get an even better result by searching the CA homepage library and this rock

 

[josie_L]

I’m more intrigued and feel the church has never done enough to apologize for the Church involved genocide that happened in Croatia in the 1940s.

Have Lutherans ever apologized for the actions of Luther towards the anabaptists/baptists???

p.s. And from my readings, members of our Church were involved but not with the knowledge of the Vatican.

 

[Mist]

“Thou shall not kill” should actually read “Thoud shall not murder”.

people.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html

The death toll is comparetively low for what us Bloody Catholics are known for.

1478-1834 about 60,000-80,000 people died. If we give people the benefit of the doubt and put it at 80,000 people. That is 224 people a year. That is nothing.

Many people like to white wash this (Along with anything else in history when a person bloody dies) as an OMG (insert someting BAWD) is awful. DEATH DEATH OOZING DEATH. Many (MANY) were not as innocent and pure as many people like to believe.

It all began to wind down after the French Revolution and when Napoleon entered Spain and we all know how much the new French Republic LURVED Religion (See The Jacobins for the ultimate hypocrisy) and it was finally surpressed in 1834.

 

[Darian]

“Thou shall not kill” should actually read “Thoud shall not murder”.

people.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html

The death toll is comparetively low for what us Bloody Catholics are known for.

1478-1834 about 60,000-80,000 people died. If we give people the benefit of the doubt and put it at 80,000 people. That is 224 people a year. That is nothing.

Many people like to white wash this (Along with anything else in history when a person bloody dies) as an OMG (insert someting BAWD) is awful. DEATH DEATH OOZING DEATH. Many (MANY) were not as innocent and pure as many people like to believe.

It all began to wind down after the French Revolution and when Napoleon entered Spain and we all know how much the new French Republic LURVED Religion (See The Jacobins for the ultimate hypocrisy) and it was finally surpressed in 1834.

Wow! I’m suprised you can be so cavalier about life. 224 people are nothing?

God was willing to spare Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of ten righteous. Gen 18

 

[Mist]

Knew that was gonna happen. Sorry. I mean compared to other atrocoties and crimes.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I went looking for similar data and found some surprising facts. The greatest act of genocide in history in sheer nubers may have been carried out by Belgium in it’s ruthless exploitation of the Congo. Source - Wikipedia - 8 to 10 million deaths.

Hitler of course was around 6 million, although I think it was closer to 12 million deaths, if one counts Slavic victims.

Atlantic slave trade mostly destined for the Americas, including Protestant USA - 5 to 10 million deaths.

European colonisation of the Americas, including Protestant USA - at least 2 million natives killed or died for various reasons.

French Wars of Religion - outgrowth of the Reformation - 2 to 4 million people killed or died as a result of war.

Reformation in Germany - Quoted from Wikipedia - From 1618 to 1648 the Thirty Years’ War ravaged in the Holy Roman Empire. The causes were the conflicts between Catholics and Protestants, the efforts by the various states within the Empire to increase their power and the Emperor’s attempt to achieve the religious and political unity of the Empire. The immediate occasion for the war was the uprising of the Protestant nobility of Bohemia against the emperor (Defenestration of Prague), but the conflict was widened into a European War by the intervention of King Christian IV of Denmark (1625-29), Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden (1630-48) and France under Cardinal Richelieu, the regent of the young Louis XIV (1635-48). Germany became the main theatre of war and the scene of the final conflict between France and the Habsburgs for predominance in Europe. The war resulted in large areas of Germany being laid waste, a loss of approximately a third of its population, and in a general impoverishment.

William Shirer in his “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” claimed the population of Germany declined from sixteen to six million and that there was a horrible torpor in the land for centuries. He commented, and he was himself a Protestant, that if he had to nominate an “evil genius” responsible for creating the state of mind which Hitler was later able to exploit, he would have to choose Martin Luther.

The Crusades - estimated death toll for all parties was around a million. Hence the Reformation was more violent in terms of deaths than the Crusades, easily.

Peasant’s War in Germany - In 1524 the Peasants’ War broke out in Swabia, Franconia and Thuringia against ruling princes and lords, following the preachings of Reformist priests. But the revolts, which were assisted by war-experienced noblemen like Götz von Berlichingen and Florian Geyer (in Franconia), and by the theologian Thomas Münzer (in Thuringia), were soon repressed by the territorial princes. It is estimated that as many as 100,000 German peasants were massacred during the revolt,[45] usually after the battles had ended.[46]

---

The Inquistion may have killed around 3000 people over a few hundred years. Compared to the above tallies, often carried out deliberately or inadvertently by Protestant parties as much as Catholic, it almost pales into insignificance. That doesn’t excuse the methods used by the Inquisition.

But then our atheist society of today is genially indulging in a holocaust of aborted children, with the USA alone accounting for around 800,000 each year. My own nation, Australia, has probably a similar average on a population basis. Around the world it adds up to millions. The difference is that we can’t see the unborn torn to pieces, or the scissors pushed into their brains to kill them, and they can’t protest, unlike those who think it’s a “woman’s right”.

The same nations which once went to war to put an end to Nazism are now killing an even greater number of their own people before they’ve even had a chance to live as full human beings.

We can’t keep doing that and expect God not to notice, and finally act. When He does do so, He’ll be absolutely ruthless. He’ll treat us with just the same lack of compassion we’ve demonstated to the unborn. The grim imagery in Revelation, and the dire warnings of Mary at Fatima in 1917 (which heralded the Russian Revolution almost immediately and World War II 22 years later) and Akita in Japan (1973) aren’t there for no reason.

 

[Mist]

All evil is necessary, for it gives us something to measure and value the good against.

War, famine, disease, disasters and even abortion keep us in check. Something to overcome and fight against. That is the human condition.

White and Black,

Steak and Hamburger,

Lemonade and Pink Lemonade.

 

[CMatt25]

That is complete bull.

If one Bishop, Cardinal, Priest took part in any Inqusition it was the Roman Catholic Chruch supporting it. The fact no Pope stopped this outrage with a clear ban is enough for me to say the Church cleary supported it. I will note there was a few the Holy Roman Empire in the center of Italy kept up an Inquistion far after the Spanish did if I recall correctly.

Not excusing the Protestants either they were just as evil at times.

I would however say killing one would be to many since JESUS you know the one we are supposed to look up to never said to KILL a heretic, the Roman Catholics just made that up. And the English purge of Catholics was not any better. But the actual numbers are hard to come down with.

:clapping:

 

[Palaeologos]

**Sadly they do.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shall not kill.

Matt5:38 You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

39But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:

43You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thy enemy.

44But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:**

And yet…ahem.

Here beginneth the Thirteenth Chapter of the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans :

“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.”

Here endeth the Lesson.

 

[Palaeologos]

That is complete bull.

If one Bishop, Cardinal, Priest took part in any Inqusition it was the Roman Catholic Chruch supporting it. The fact no Pope stopped this outrage with a clear ban is enough for me to say the Church cleary supported it. I will note there was a few the Holy Roman Empire in the center of Italy kept up an Inquistion far after the Spanish did if I recall correctly.

You need to read up on your history. The Pope attempted to stop the Spanish Inquisition, as he attempted to mitigate the atrocities of the conquistadors in the New World. But although the Pope’s power over the Church is in theory absolute, in practice it’s limited to how well the Bishops are disposed to obey him. In the 15th century, while the Spanish Inquisition was going on, he certainly didn’t possess the resources to mount an invasion of Spain to stop the Inquisition (again, if you read a little history, you’ll see he had a few problems of his own at that time).

Just as today, Benedict XVI grits his teeth at the abuses perpetrated by American clergy, but if the North American bishops decide not to pursue the matter nothing will happen.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Thank you to those of you who answered the question.

USSR. Bloody Mary. One is too many. Oi!

Queen Mary I, A good Catholic Queen.