How much authority does Traditional husband have?

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I removed my reply a week ago on another thread where I had a link to a certain forum site that advocated physical discipline for wives. A member here had never heard of such a thing and I felt guilty giving that vile site any potential web traffic or hits, but sadly, it does exist among the fringe groups out there.
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This is true. And this is not strictly related to the OP’s post, because she did not say anything about physical discipline in her question. But since we’re on the topic, I can’t echo this statement from LumineDiei enough (and by the way, I didn’t see the post you’re referring to but I have a feeling I know which forum you linked to, and if it’s the one I’m thinking of, the place is definitely bad news and not worth a plug here).

There ARE men in the Trad movement who believe domestic violence is permissible if the wife “deserves it” or “refuses to acknowledge the husband’s authority”. It should go without saying, but that is NOT a Christian mindset by any stretch of the imagination. It is truly despicable that such a notion is given any credence on any forum, schismatic or not, but then again, many of those extremist forums would also tell you the earth is flat and that Cardinal Siri set up an “underground hierarchy” before his death, so it doesn’t necessarily surprise me. Once you move past the FSSP into the more extreme or schismatic Trad groups, you’ll start observing some true lunacy. By your fruits you will know them…
 
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RadWife said:
other than getting on my case for gaining too much weight since our marriage (about 40 lbs),
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RadWife said:
“I’m the head of this household and you will do what I say”
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RadWife said:
He told me to go to my room yesterday and that he has authority over me.
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If I was in choir, and wanted to sing falsetto, then I would say these things to my wife.

Two things: why are you putting up with this, and has he been hanging around other guys like this lately?

Otherwise, are you sure he isn’t twelve?
 
I have the English translation of the 1917 Code of Canon Law, which I understand is popular with traditionalists. He would be wise not to take his interests as far as buying one. It is very heavy and seems aerodynamically suited to a solution to this problem.
 
RadWife said:
He told me to go to my room yesterday and that he has authority over me.
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That is, in my opinion, well out of order. I would dread to think what the response would be if I ever said anything like that to my wife.

I think the over-riding attitude of a husband towards his wife should be love. Without knowing the context of what was said, telling you to go to your room like this seems more about control.

Like some others here have said, perhaps your husband has been influenced by some online stuff that might suggest the role of a Catholic husband is to be obeyed by all in his house. That approach can lead to a very self-centred view of being a Catholic husband where the husband is the ‘he-man’ providing everything and being obeyed and respected by all.

I believe that husbands need to be tolerant, as much as wives, and cannot expect to always get their way. I believe their relationship with their wives needs to be one of love, not one of control.

Perhaps your husband is struggling with a ‘male identity crisis’ where he is trying to define his role as husband and father in a Western society that seems at times to almost denigrate the role of men? I think there is quite a bit of this among men of all sorts in our society where masculinity seems to be increasingly almost frowned upon by Western society.
 
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Brendan_64 said:
Perhaps your husband is struggling with a ‘male identity crisis’ where he is trying to define his role as husband and father in a Western society that seems at times to almost denigrate the role of men? I think there is quite a bit of this among men of all sorts in our society where masculinity seems to be increasingly almost frowned upon by Western society.
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This x 1000. To add to it, we are a generation of men who were raised without male role models. OP, your husband is struggling because he did not have a proper father figure in his life growing up. I know what he is going through because I’m going through it myself.

I won’t excuse his behavior, he was wrong for telling you to go to your room and his interpretation of what “submission” means is skewed. Still, he is trying. He wants to be a good/strong husband but needs guidance from the right sources.
 
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I disagree about the “a generation of men who were raised without male role models”…we had male role models but in many cases, it was the wrong type of role model.

There is no doubt in my mind who the “head of the household” was in my grandparent’s home but I also know who the “boss” was and it def not my grandfathers.
 
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I highly recommend you look for Fr. John Riccardo’s podcast on Ephesian’s 5. He gives a very in depth and accurate understanding of what the scripture really means rather than what most people have misinterpreted it to mean.
 
It’s important not to minimize that the family has one head. Just like in the church, the whole point of this is the unity of the family. It is not a coincidence that divorce has skyrocketed as this principle has been suppressed.

That being said, “headship” whether in the family, in the church, or in civil society has to be understood and exercised in the Christian sense. Compare the passage in Ephesians to the following:
Matt. 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. 26 It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave; 28 even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
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The law of charity must be supreme.

Pius XI, Casti Connubii
  1. Domestic society being confirmed, therefore, by this bond of love, there should flourish in it that “order of love,” as St. Augustine calls it. This order includes both the primacy of the husband with regard to the wife and children, the ready subjection of the wife and her willing obedience, which the Apostle commends in these words: “Let women be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ is the head of the Church.”[29]
  2. This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person, and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion; nor does it bid her obey her husband’s every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife; nor, in fine, does it imply that the wife should be put on a level with those persons who in law are called minors, to whom it is not customary to allow free exercise of their rights on account of their lack of mature judgment, or of their ignorance of human affairs. But it forbids that exaggerated liberty which cares not for the good of the family; it forbids that in this body which is the family, the heart be separated from the head to the great detriment of the whole body and the proximate danger of ruin. For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place in ruling, so she may and ought to claim for herself the chief place in love.
  3. Again, this subjection of wife to husband in its degree and manner may vary according to the different conditions of persons, place and time. In fact, if the husband neglect his duty, it falls to the wife to take his place in directing the family. But the structure of the family and its fundamental law, established and confirmed by God, must always and everywhere be maintained intact .
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Fair enough. I guess I am internalizing a great deal of what OP’s husband is going through. Maybe he did have the wrong male role models growing up.

I only know that I had exactly zero male role models growing up…not right ones, not wrong ones, no ones.
 
MasterHaster said:
That sounds like a bad deal for the wife. She has to submit to him daily in exchange for the longshot that he might have to die for her.
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He’s supposed to be “dying” for her every day by pretty much putting her needs ahead of his own.
It’s largely figurative language in this day and age.

I am not a fan of it because it seems to have been imported from some way earlier century when there was a very real possibility that a man would die defending his wife and kids from a threat of harm, and it does not provide any practical guidance for the couple today trying to figure out how to get along. The woman who started this thread is asking how a woman goes about properly “submitting” to her husband, showing that it’s simply unclear fluffy stuff.

The real mechanics of how husbands and wives get along is to some degree very specific to the husband and wife. It’s always based on mutual respect, good communication, and commitment.
 
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You are not a child who he can just punish randomly. This going to your room stuff is seriously scary and anti-Christian. I would think of going to a counselor
 
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MasterHaster said:
That sounds like a bad deal for the wife. She has to submit to him daily in exchange for the longshot that he might have to die for her.
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We have to pick up our crosses and die to ourselves daily as disciples. That doesn’t mean we literally die every day. The same goes for a husband for his wife. Not only that but a husband is called to love his wife as he loves himself.
 
Oh I would have gone to my room and thrown a pillow at …er… .to him so he could sleep somewhere else then locked the door.
And words. My words would be some not printable here.
A wife is not a child.
 
Did I? No. Should her husband? No.

I was just pointing out that he is struggling. I’m not excusing his behavior. Is it not helpful to know why someone is behaving the way that they are, especially if said behavior is out of line?
 
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My reply here will go against the grain as to what everyone else has probably said, though I have not read all the posts.
First let me start out by saying, commisioned by the Council of Trent, written under the supervision of St. Robert Bellermine, who today is his feast day, and promulgated in 1566 by Saint Pope Pius V, the Church was given the Catechism of Trent.

And in that catechism it states:

It is the duty of the husband to treat his wife generously and honourably. It should not be forgotten that Eve was called by Adam his companion. The woman, he says, whom thou gavest me as a companion. Hence it was, according to the opinion of some of the holy Fathers, that she was formed not from the feet but from the side of man; as, on the other hand, she was not formed from his head, in order to give her to understand that it was not hers to command but to obey her husband.

It is my personal opinion that both sides can go extreme. The husband is the head of the family but can get too carried away and become prideful and take his role too far and not treat his wife generously and honourably. Wives also do forget or refuse to accept that the husband is the head of the home and frequently refuse to follow their husbands or allow their husbands to lead.

It also says in the Catechism of Trent that:
by the grace of this Sacrament husband and wife are joined in the bonds of mutual love, cherish affection one towards the other,

If a husband is being a bully that is not loving but if a wife is refusing to allow her husband to lead that is not respectful either.

With all charity to the OP, I was always taught that there are three sides to every story; his, hers and the truth. With respect to the husband and the Sacrament of Marriage, we have not heard his side. Usually in an argument it is sometimes difficult for both sides to think straight and see things clearly.
It would be wrong for someone to get advise from anonymous people on an internet forum when it comes to their marriage. It would be best to talk to a priest.

Also, I think the best I would say is to pray for your husband and your marriage (lift up many rosaries and Masses for your marriage) and after that work on loving each other.
 
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