How much counseling/psychology do Priests learn?

[po18guy]

and I’ve learned to lower my standards when it comes to the advice SOME of the priests choose to give me after a confession.

This is telling. Were you protestant or non-denom for awhile?

Years ago, I found myself doing this same thing. I disagreed with the priest. The Holy Spirit convicted me of sin in my confession! Realizing this, I slumped and submitted. During absolution, the Holy Spirit literally shook the hell out of me.

Unforgettable.

 

[babochka]

LadyofFaith1978:

and I’ve learned to lower my standards when it comes to the advice SOME of the priests choose to give me after a confession.

But their job title is neither counsellor nor psychologist. It would be like being disappointed in your child’s teacher not giving them good therapy. I think priests are perhaps not ideal for solving our mental health issues. There is overlap between the spiritual and the psychological but not necessarily.
its an interesting area for me as I have done some study in both psych. and theology.

I would be disappointed if my child’s teacher lacked the basic skills to connect and build rapport with my child. These are skills that can and should be acquired by those who are going to be working with people. While we do not have a reasonable expectation of psychological counseling from our priests, spiritual counseling is an important part of their job, inside and outside of the confessional.

 

[goodcatholic]

While we do not have a reasonable expectation of psychological counseling from our priests, spiritual counseling is an important part of their job,

I think you need to define “spiritual” counselling. Because all of us probably have different ideas about what it constitutes exactly.

 

[goodcatholic]

Regardless, pastoral counseling is in the job description, and it would be a good thing to recognize it.

So what is “pastoral counselling” ?
" Just repent, say sorry to God, and a decade of the Rosary". Might that be considered as pastoral counselling?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

" Just repent, say sorry to God, and a decade of the Rosary". Might that be considered as pastoral counselling?

Probably not.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Here’s a course description of a Pastoral Counseling course at the Jesuit seminary here in Northern California:

Pastoral Counseling
This course introduces basic concepts, attitudes, and skills of pastoral counseling. Consideration is given to the fundamental process and skills of pastoral counseling to more effectively deal with common pastoral concerns and problems. It further covers professional ethics for pastoral ministers including issues such as boundaries, power differentials, confidentiality, and sexual misconduct. Systematic training and practice in basic responding and initiating skills are provided. Multicultural implications are included. Intended audience: MDiv, MA, MTS. [Faculty Consent required; 15 max enrollment]

 

[Jerusha]

ComplineSanFran:

Regardless, pastoral counseling is in the job description, and it would be a good thing to recognize it.

So what is “pastoral counselling” ?
" Just repent, say sorry to God, and a decade of the Rosary". Might that be considered as pastoral counselling?

In some/many situations, that is all that is necessary. But feedback on level of culpability, root sin, or application of the opposite virtue, and suchlike, are often necessary. Otherwise, avoidance of that sin in the future can become very difficult. And such insights, as well as the advice to get professional help do not require much education in psychology-- often, as others said, just an instinct, and a caring attitude.

 

[goodcatholic]

Maybe it all hinges on the personality of the priest. No training is going to turn a priest into a good listener. Good listening skills requires ability to empathise though. And this is where many priests don’t have much life experience unless they are late vocations.

 

[babochka]

babochka:

While we do not have a reasonable expectation of psychological counseling from our priests, spiritual counseling is an important part of their job,

I think you need to define “spiritual” counselling. Because all of us probably have different ideas about what it constitutes exactly.

Spiritual: relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Counsel: advice, especially that given formally

So spiritual counseling would be to give advice relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul. This might include how to develop a deeper prayer life, how to better form one’s conscience, discerning God’s will, practical ways to avoid sin, drawing boundaries in relationships while still living up to one’s moral responsibilities, and many others. The priest needs to be able to recognize a scrupulous conscience and, with sensitivity, counsel the penitent on the best approach to take to help the situation.

For all these things, the priest needs to be able to communicate effectively and with sensitivity. If this doesn’t come naturally to him, these skills can and should be taught. If a priest is not able to do this, he can do great spiritual harm in the confessional, even while he offers absolution.

 

[goodcatholic]

drawing boundaries in relationships while still living up to one’s moral responsibilities,

that would come under a generic counsellor’s responsibility to address. Setting boundaries with others is a basic skill we all need to work on, Christian or not.

 

[babochka]

that would come under a generic counsellor’s responsibility to address. Setting boundaries with others is a basic skill we all need to work on, Christian or not.

There’s a great deal of overlap between our spiritual, mental and emotional lives.

I don’t mean helping people learn to draw boundaries; I have in mind more helping them understand that a boundary is not a sin. For example, a woman who leaves an abusive spouse might be confused by the apparent conflict between her need to protect herself and her children and her moral obligations to the marriage. Or helping an adult child figure out what exactly constitutes honoring one’s parents versus giving into their every whim. Obviously, mental health counseling can be important in this situation, but it will not clarify the moral teachings of the church and how those teachings apply to a specific situation.

 

[guanophore]

So what is “pastoral counselling” ?
" Just repent, say sorry to God, and a decade of the Rosary". Might that be considered as pastoral counselling?

No.

Counseling implies listening and empathizing, possibly problem solving. What you are describing is what happens during the sacrament.

In some/many situations, that is all that is necessary. But feedback on level of culpability, root sin, or application of the opposite virtue, and suchlike, are often necessary.

Yes, but this falls under the realm of spiritual direction rather than counseling.

No training is going to turn a priest into a good listener.

Of course it can. Listening skills can be learned, just like any other skill.

Good listening skills requires ability to empathise though.

While this is ideal, in fact, people can learn to listen very well without empathizing.

So spiritual counseling would be to give advice relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul.

This falls m ore under the domain of spiritual direction.

Spiritual: relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

This is a deficient definition. The desires of the flesh are opposed to the Spirit.

So spiritual counseling would be to give advice relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul. This might include how to develop a deeper prayer life, how to better form one’s conscience, discerning God’s will, practical ways to avoid sin

These things are spiritual direction.

drawing boundaries in relationships

This is counseling.

The priest needs to be able to recognize a scrupulous conscience and, with sensitivity, counsel the penitent on the best approach to take to help the situation.

Spiritual direction.

There’s a great deal of overlap between our spiritual, mental and emotional lives.

Yes, of course.

I don’t mean helping people learn to draw boundaries; I have in mind more helping them understand that a boundary is not a sin. For example, a woman who leaves an abusive spouse might be confused by the apparent conflict between her need to protect herself and her children and her moral obligations to the marriage.

Actually, most women trapped in an abusive relationship are likely to keep returning to it as a result of their emotional needs.

Or helping an adult child figure out what exactly constitutes honoring one’s parents versus giving into their every whim.

Spiritual direction.

 

[guanophore]

Obviously, mental health counseling can be important in this situation, but it will not clarify the moral teachings of the church and how those teachings apply to a specific situation.

Indeed.

This clarification is the purview of spiritual direction.

 

[Bon_Croix]

I would add that there is much healing by the sacramental grace (emotional, psychiatric, etc…).

So, I would always implore one with those issues to use the confessional.

 

[goodcatholic]

For example, a woman who leaves an abusive spouse might be confused by the apparent conflict between her need to protect herself and her children and her moral obligations to the marriage. Or helping an adult child figure out what exactly constitutes honoring one’s parents versus giving into their every whim. Obviously, mental health counseling can be important in this situation, but it will not clarify the moral teachings of the church and how those teachings apply to a specific situation.

Good examples given and we could spend a whole thread on both of them.Im thinking of some of the priests in my local parishes and I’d say only 20% of them might give adequate counselling on those subjects. Takes knowledge and skill overlapping theology and counselling.Should we be expecting priests to do this? personally I don’t think so. maybe a floating counsellor/priest who visits different parishes would be ideal.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Sacrament of Reconcilliation is not a psychology or counselling session.

^^This. Most priests will shy away from anything past really, really basic stuff (example: if you tell the priest you recently lost a close family member, he will likely say things about be patient with yourself, grieving takes time, grief is messy, and don’t try to go it alone, ask others for help.)

Priests in confession are not there to deal with the traumas others have experienced. For that a person should be seeking out a mental health counselor, not expecting the priest in a confessional to be one.

 

[Mary888]

Confession is about presenting the priest what you did wrong, your own sins, not other people’s sins (like in the case for trauma when others did wrong to you and you feel wounded). General advice and discussion is for spiritual directors.
A personal trauma I confess as - “I have been holding grudges and remembering evil done to me.” The priest may ask or not what that evil is but is part of my spiritual healing to help me above that trauma not dwell into it. It is a different type of discussion than psychology.

 

[po18guy]

A good opportunity…

The Pope’s prayer intentions for July 2018…
Evangelization: Priests and their Pastorial Ministry
That priests, who experience fatigue and loneliness in their pastoral work, may find help and comfort in their intimacy with the Lord and in their friendship with their brother priests.

 

[MonteRCMS]

I think you need to define “spiritual” counselling. Because all of us probably have different ideas about what it constitutes exactly.

They really don’t have time in confession to do a thorough spiritual counseling … make an appointment for at his office.

 

[babochka]

I contend that spiritual counseling and spiritual direction are pretty much the same thing and have every place in the confessional.

“Counseling” is a word often thrown about, but it simply means to give advice. If one is giving advice on the spiritual life, that is spiritual counseling. Every priest should be qualified to give spiritual counsel to his parishioners, inside or outside fo the confessional.

Some use the word “counseling” as a synonym for psychotherapy. Obviously, confession is not the time for this type of counseling and few priests are qualified to give it.

So many here on CAF adamantly state that confession is not the time for any sort of spiritual counseling or direction, save for a few very brief words of encouragement.

Thanks be to God, my confessor and a number of notable saints disagree wholeheartedly with this.

Read some of the classic (or contemporary) “Guides for Confessors”. Here is a link to one by St. Alphonsus Ligouri https://www.scribd.com/doc/235687056/St-Alphonsus-Liguori-Guide-for-Confessors

Another good source is St. Francis de Sales Introduction to the Devout Life