How much does liturgical and theological consistency weigh into your choice of church?

[JohnnyReb]

What does evangelism matter if you don’t have the Apostolic Faith? Even Muslims evangelize. Just look on YouTube. Orthodox missions in the past have been weak due to Ottoman and Communist persecution, but it has been flourishing the past 20 years in America, but also in Europe and Africa. Asia has seen an explosion in Orthodoxy as well.

In Christ,
Andrew

I get what you are saying, but comparing Islam, a non Christian faith, to a form of Christian evangelism is not accurate.

18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Even if certain groups do not have the fullness of the Christian faith, Christ is still preached. It brings the hearers closer to the truth.

 

[Bluegoat]

For whatever reason, dairy seems to be the most difficult for me. I love cheese!

Me too! I haven’t worried about it because for the last number of years I’ve been pregnant or nursing, and I figure I need the eggs and dairy. I am not looking forward to the day I have no good reason to keep eating it.

 

[Bluegoat]

For me the difficulty does not lie with me, but with others in my family especially around the holidays and such, meal planning for me, and meal planning for them. Fasting is a wonderful discipline and its one I need to take up more. Its very biblical and grounded in tradition. I didn’t do well fasting in Lent this year either.

However in December I gave up smoking and that was a battle I fought for all during Lent, so I guess was doing something of benefit for good reasons-my health and to purify my body.

Yes, if family is not fasting, and you are not the cook, you can’t really impose. But I think smoking counts, it is probably a lot harder than food.

 

[Harpazo]

Yes, if family is not fasting, and you are not the cook, you can’t really impose. But I think smoking counts, it is probably a lot harder than food.

Being the only Orthodox in my family currently, I keep the fast for breakfast and lunch when meals are pretty much on our own, but my priest instructed me to eat whatever was offered to me at dinner with gratitude and humility. It actually makes the fast a little harder for those of us in not completely Orthodox families because we want to stay true to the fast, but it also keeps us humble because we can’t. But it’s all for our salvation.

And I second (or third) those who miss eggs and dairy during Fasts.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[elgar]

I get what you are saying, but comparing Islam, a non Christian faith, to a form of Christian evangelism is not accurate.

18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Even if certain groups do not have the fullness of the Christian faith, Christ is still preached. It brings the hearers closer to the truth.

AMEN brother! And I know all about Pope Leo XIII declaring Anglican orders null and void in the late 19th century. The important thing for me is reading, discussing and digesting the Word of God and receiving God’s Grace through the Sacraments. You may argue we only have one vallid Sacrament–Baptism–but I disagree. The charge of the Gospel is that we go out into the world spreading the God News and bringing others to Christ. This is everyone’s charge. I grew up in the Catholic church at a time when you put in your hour on Sunday and met your Holy Day requirements. Evangelism was left up to the priests.

I have personally met several God loving Anglican Bishops whom I admire. I didn’t have the same experience growing up in the Catholic Church. There are a small handful that stand up to popular opinion and politics but still in the minority.

 

[Mickey]

Me too! I haven’t worried about it because for the last number of years I’ve been pregnant or nursing, and I figure I need the eggs and dairy. I am not looking forward to the day I have no good reason to keep eating it.

Amen! The fast is relaxed for those who are pregnant, nursing, elderly, ill, etc. When My wife was pregnant or nursing, she also relaxed the fast.

I was alone without my cheese!

 

[JohnnyReb]

Being the only Orthodox in my family currently, I keep the fast for breakfast and lunch when meals are pretty much on our own, but my priest instructed me to eat whatever was offered to me at dinner with gratitude and humility. It actually makes the fast a little harder for those of us in not completely Orthodox families because we want to stay true to the fast, but it also keeps us humble because we can’t. But it’s all for our salvation.

And I second (or third) those who miss eggs and dairy during Fasts.

In Christ,
Andrew

Sounds like great pastoral advice, again my western, rigid, legalistic mindset is getting away in my appreciation of the orthodox faith. I was wondering how these situations were handled and if one had to rigidly keep two seperate menus when feeding yourself and the family.

 

[Mickey]

But I think smoking counts, it is probably a lot harder than food.

It has been just over five years for me now. Quitting was one of the most difficult thing I have ever done–by the grace of God.

 

[lax16]

Being the only Orthodox in my family currently, I keep the fast for breakfast and lunch when meals are pretty much on our own, but my priest instructed me to eat whatever was offered to me at dinner with gratitude and humility. It actually makes the fast a little harder for those of us in not completely Orthodox families because we want to stay true to the fast, but it also keeps us humble because we can’t. But it’s all for our salvation.

And I second (or third) those who miss eggs and dairy during Fasts.

In Christ,
Andrew

Please explain the fast you are referring to - lent perhaps?

I understand the lenten fast is more strict than the Catholic lenten fast.

So your priest suggests that you can break the fast if someone serves you food you should not eat in order not to be rude?

I have an Orthodox friend who doesn’t always attend church on Sunday because her priest told her she doesn’t have to if she is too tired and that being with her family is good enough…

thanks!

 

[Mickey]

Sounds like great pastoral advice, again my western, rigid, legalistic mindset is getting away in my appreciation of the orthodox faith. I was wondering how these situations were handled and if one had to rigidly keep two seperate menus when feeding yourself and the family.

Do not say to me that I fasted for so many days, that I did not eat this or that, that I did not drink wine, that I endured want; but show me if thou from an angry man hast become gentle, if thou from a cruel man hast become benevolent. If thou art filled with anger, why oppress thy flesh? If hatred and avarice are within thee, of what benefit is it that thou drinkest water? Do not show forth a useless fast: for fasting alone does not ascend to heaven.
St John Chrysostom

 

[Rawb]

For whatever reason, dairy seems to be the most difficult for me. I love cheese!

Oh man, me too! My Pascha basket was square, just large enough to hold the Alfredo lasagna I made. After Liturgy I peeled back the cover and dug in. My friends were cracking up because it was the lasagna, a fork, and a Dr Pepper on top. Their baskets were all pretty with the traditional breads and eggs. I had an 11x9 lasagna.

Please explain the fast you are referring to - lent perhaps?

I understand the lenten fast is more strict than the Catholic lenten fast.

Generally Orthodox give up all meat, dairy, eggs, wine, and olive oil for Lent. The meat includes fish. Most don’t give up all of this - you work out what you can do with your Spiritual Father, and on the weekends the fast is relaxed so you can have fish and oil. We don’t get Sunday’s ‘off’.

So your priest suggests that you can break the fast if someone serves you food you should not eat in order not to be rude?

Yes. It’s rude to refuse to eat something someone has taken the time to prepare for you.

I have an Orthodox friend who doesn’t always attend church on Sunday because her priest told her she doesn’t have to if she is too tired and that being with her family is good enough…

I can only guess she either misunderstood her priest, or there is some added situation that we are not privy to.

 

[dzheremi]

Honestly, the fasting is one of the things I’m pretty apprehensive about…I dunno how it compares to the Easterners (I think it’s longer, because you guys don’t do the fast of the Ninevites, do you?), but the Copts are just crazy for fasting. I have to at least try, but I haven’t taken it up yet because I have certain dietary restrictions that might conflict with the fasting rules, so I figure I should ask my spiritual father first…once I have one.

Anyway, what do you cook your vegetables in if you can’t use oil or butter? Just water? Because I have tons of quinoa sitting around, but most of the recipes I have for it require it to be cooked with a little oil, or in chicken bouillon, and unfortunately since liturgy is held in somebody’s house in Albuquerque I don’t think I’m going to be able to rely on a church-produced cookbook like most of you guys probably have.

 

[Mickey]

so I figure I should ask my spiritual father first…once I have one.

Absolutely.

Anyway, what do you cook your vegetables in if you can’t use oil or butter? Just water?

Some people refrain from all oil…others from only olive oil. I am of the latter type. I usually use safflower or grape seed.

But once the fast ends…I am right back to olive!

 

[Mickey]

My friends were cracking up because it was the lasagna, a fork, and a Dr Pepper on top. Their baskets were all pretty with the traditional breads and eggs. I had an 11x9 lasagna.

 

[dzheremi]

Absolutely.
Some people refrain from all oil…others from only olive oil. I am of the latter type. I usually use safflower or grape seed.

I see. I’ll have to ask some more about what exactly is allowed during which period. With a large majority of the year spent under some kind of fasting rule or another, it’s kind of hard to keep everything straight…and I haven’t even done anything yet!

 

[Rawb]

I see. I’ll have to ask some more about what exactly is allowed during which period. With a large majority of the year spent under some kind of fasting rule or another, it’s kind of hard to keep everything straight…and I haven’t even done anything yet!

Welcome to the world where that little calendar your parish gives out becomes indispensable Smart Phones, with their little calendars/apps that help us keep track of the time are a big help too.

Do the Orientals keep a different calendar too? Have fun explaining why your parish isn’t having a Christmas service on Gregorian December 25th. “Mom, today is only May 27th…”

 

[amber_lux]

oneGODoneCHURCH;:

Have you been to the Easthern Catholic forums?

That is Catholic Christianity, not Orthodox Christianity.
As such, it suffers from the same fail as Latin Rite Catholicism does.

Amber

 

[dzheremi]

Welcome to the world where that little calendar your parish gives out becomes indispensable Smart Phones, with their little calendars/apps that help us keep track of the time are a big help too.

Do the Orientals keep a different calendar too? Have fun explaining why your parish isn’t having a Christmas service on Gregorian December 25th. “Mom, today is only May 27th…”

Eh, my mom passed years ago and my dad’s in an anti-Christian cult…needless to say, religion doesn’t come up very often!

Christmas is celebrated January 7th until long after we’re all dead (it won’t shift to January 8 until 2100). Copts use their own calendar, which matches the Ethiopian (with the “little month” and everything), but has different names. Today is apparently the second day of Paoni (“Sane” for the Ethiopians). Their year calculation must be different, though, since I know the Copts begin the calculation of the years starting in the Year of the Martyrs (under the emperor Diocletian, 284 A.D.), while the Ethiopians are only 7 years off from the Gregorian calculation. So it’s either 1727 or 2004.

 

[amber_lux]

Being a vegetarian, I didn’t think twice about the Orthodox restrictions!

Permissible food for Vegetarians, that is not to be consumed during an Orthodox fast:
Lacto-vegetarian:

• Milk;
• Cheese;
• Butter;

Ova-vegetarian:

• Eggs;

Permissible food for vegans, that is not to be consumed during an Orthodox fast:

• Olive Oil;
• Vegan wine;

Orthodox fasting rules usually extend the meaning of Olive Oil to cover all oils, including artificial things such as margarine.

Vegan Wine is extremely difficult to find. Unless the bottle specifically states that it is vegan wine, consider it treif, due to to contamination by animal by-products.

Amber

 

[Rawb]

Orthodox fasting rules usually extend the meaning of Olive Oil to cover all oils, including artificial things such as margarine.

Lets be honest - consuming margarine should be a penance in itself.

Vegan Wine is extremely difficult to find. Unless the bottle specifically states that it is vegan wine, consider it treif, due to to contamination by animal by-products.

I’ve never heard of vegan wine. Animal Byproducts? I’m almost scared to ask…