How much does liturgical and theological consistency weigh into your choice of church?

[Mickey]

Welcome to the world where that little calendar your parish gives out becomes indispensable Smart Phones, with their little calendars/apps that help us keep track of the time are a big help too.

Indeed!

Here is a fact that I did not know until recently: Did you know that everytime during a fast where wine and oil is permitted, it automatically permits the ingestion of shellfish?

 

[Rawb]

I did know that actually. The ‘official’ rule is “fish with a backbone” are forbidden.

The ancients certainly had their own way of categorizing foods…

 

[Mickey]

I did know that actually.

Bravo. I am still learning my fasting etiquette.

 

[dzheremi]

Yeah…I’ve always wondered about the backbone criterion myself. Is there some particular explanation?

As far as I understand (based on the Encyclopedia Coptica), for the Copts this is not the distinction made. No animals or animal products are allowed, so that’s no fish, either. Not being much of a seafood fan myself, I can’t say I’m too crushed.

 

[amber_lux]

dzheremi;:

since liturgy is held in somebody’s house in Albuquerque I don’t think I’m going to be able to rely on a church-produced cookbook like most of you guys probably have.

From the Orthodox churches in Seattle you have Greek Cooking in an American Kitchen and Lenten Cookbook for Orthodox Christians. The recipes are pretty good. If your local Orthodox Christian Bookstore doesn’t have both of them, you can order them from St. Nectarios Press Bookstore in Seattle.

Amber

 

[dzheremi]

Thank you for the suggestion, Amber. As I understand, the dietary restrictions do vary a little bit between the EO and the OO. Perhaps I could order one of those books and adapt it with the help of my spiritual father…

 

[Rawb]

There’s a free online Orthodox Lenten cookbook here, put out by the Greeks. It uses olive oil in a lot of recipes though. Leave it to the Greeks

The cookbook download is near the bottom, and it was put together by a nutritionist so she avoided things like margarine and found healthy substitutes for things.

 

[elgar]

Indeed!

Here is a fact that I did not know until recently: Did you know that everytime during a fast where wine and oil is permitted, it automatically permits the ingestion of shellfish?

I’m the guilty party for bringing up fasting in the first place. Even though I’ve learned a lot from the discussion thus far, it is beginning to sound “legalistic”–something the Catholic Church has been accused of over the centuries in its decrees. At the end of the day, it appears the Orthodox don’t all follow it strictly or consistently due to circumstances. If I were to ever become Orthodox and partake in these fasts, I would start taking a multi-vitamin!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Get back to my OP people!

 

[Harpazo]

I’m the guilty party for bringing up fasting in the first place. Even though I’ve learned a lot from the discussion thus far, it is beginning to sound “legalistic”–something the Catholic Church has been accused of over the centuries in its decrees. At the end of the day, it appears the Orthodox don’t all follow it strictly or consistently due to circumstances. If I were to ever become Orthodox and partake in these fasts, I would start taking a multi-vitamin!

I take one. There are ways to fast that allow you to have the right nutrients. Certain combinations of foods work well with each other for the body, e.g. beans and rice. The purpose is to help the soul, not destroy the body.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Mickey]

Even though I’ve learned a lot from the discussion thus far, it is beginning to sound “legalistic”–something the Catholic Church has been accused of over the centuries in its decrees.

It is not my friend. We like to joke around sometimes. That is why I posted the quote from St John. It is worth posting again.

Sorry Gurney. That is my last post on fasting.

Do not say to me that I fasted for so many days, that I did not eat this or that, that I did not drink wine, that I endured want; but show me if thou from an angry man hast become gentle, if thou from a cruel man hast become benevolent. If thou art filled with anger, why oppress thy flesh? If hatred and avarice are within thee, of what benefit is it that thou drinkest water? Do not show forth a useless fast: for fasting alone does not ascend to heaven.
St John Chrysostom

 

[JesusforMadrid]

Oh yes my good friend. Holy Orthodoxy is an endless well of spiritual nourishment. The beautiful and ancient services; Vespers, Orthros, compline, royal hours, etc; The adherence to the fasting periods; The inner journey of The Great Fast (Lent) with the culmination of Holy week and Pascha; The feast day Liturgies (on the actual day–not moved to Sunday); The rich theology of apophaticism, hesychastic prayer, and theosis; The constant process of metanoia.

I could go on and on–but you get my drift. I sometimes find myself hoping for a very long life so that I can attempt to absorb more–but I know that 100 lifetimes would not be enough to absorb everything.

Have you ever experienced the full service of the Mystery of Holy Unction? Amazing!!!

Peace and prayers to you on your journey.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you. I was not able to attend the Holy Unction service. I 'll try next year. I did get to most of the Canon of St. Andrew and also Holy Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Very powerful! I am surprised how humbling it is to make full prostrations.

I get your drift on the rich liturgy and theology. The more I read of Orthodox theology, the more I found myself agreeing. But actually it was the spiritual disciplines–daily readings from the lectionary, the twice daily prayer from my little Red Prayer Book, and fasting–that really changed my spiritual walk from an intellectual exercise to a way of life (hopefully corresponding to The Way).

 

[amber_lux]

I At the end of the day, it appears the Orthodox don’t all follow it strictly or consistently due to circumstances.

Orthodox Christianity does not seek definitive answers. As such, it defines guidelines, not laws. Guidelines that can breeched, but only with the guidance of your Orthodox Priest.

Amber

 

[josephback]

Get back to my OP people!

In a way its fascinating, but how did this ever become a conversation on Orthodox fasting? Read the post - time to backtrack!

 

[Harpazo]

In a way its fascinating, but how did this ever become a conversation on Orthodox fasting? Read the post - time to backtrack!

That could have been my fault. I may have listed that as an area of consistency in Orthodoxy along with the lex orandi lex credendi mindset. We all just kinda went with it.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Forget the fasting, the standing for an hour and a half and then another lifetime of kneeling for Pentecost prayers was just too much for my wife and I. Today, we had to bolt. That was just off the hook.

Honestly, the John Chrysostom liturgy just seems so repetitive and looooong and drawn out I actually missed the Novus Ordo liturgy. The repetitive chanting makes me zone out. I couldn’t believe after like 1 and a half hours then they had this huge thick book of pentecost prayers with a font like sized 7 and we were going to have to pray all those on our knees. My kids were about to implode. We had to take off…

It’s too tough on us driving an hour to get to church then going through all that, then the coffee hour stuff. It sucks up the whole day and is too tough on the kids.

The fasting I could handle since I’m a vegetarian. But this repetition stuff over and over and the chanting? Can’t take it.

In a way its fascinating, but how did this ever become a conversation on Orthodox fasting? Read the post - time to backtrack!