How much immorality is too much?

[edwest2]

Ed… MY POINT to you was that you keep going on and on about your generation, and how your generation is the only one that had good manners, respected there parents… and it’s today’s generation that is so degraded. Could you please point me to the area of any of your posts, or post # where you differentiate between Catholics and your generation. I’m sorry I missed that…

Of course the Catholic CHURCH has never endorsed any of this…

Are their “Catholics” that have done awful things…You’ll notice the “priests” that committed the most disgusting of betrayl… aren’t a bunch of younin’s… Nope they’d be from the 50’ and 60, and 70’s…

My point is… the trash that we witness today has been cooking for some time now. IT has not just appeared. Today’s society is a direct result of yesteryear’s societies behavior. And if you’re well enough to walk I don’t care if your 5 or 95… WE ALL have to take back commen decency. Hopefully it’s not too late.

My point to you is that ALL of the groundwork for today was laid down in the time period I lived through. And it was all done by outsiders trying to convince Catholics and non-Catholics to live their way. You don’t seem to get that. It was Christians who held out or held out as long as they could against continued, repeated blows.

Perverts and sexual deviants made it a point to gradually reshape this country into their image and likeness. Christians did not have any interest in making the world safe for sexual deviant behavior. Got that?

First, it was “leave us alone.” Now it’s, we’ll have sex in public if we want to.

90% of all the common decency problems we have today are due to disordered sexuality and exploitation of disordered sexuality.

Artificial Birth Control.
Abortion
Easy Divorce
Embryonic Stem Cell research
In-vitro fertilization
Pornography

People were gradually introduced to “alternative lifestyles” that have gradually destroyed stable family relationships. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have said a lot about the need for stable families.

Yes, our behavior is what God looks at. But, once you begin ignoring God - anything goes.

Peace,
Ed

 

[LittleSoldier]

First of all, the fact that you drop bombs about discrimination, bigotry, and imperialism in the US and then won’t bother to read any links concerning another point of view is pretty weak.
I only mentioned the Irish because discrimination against them (when the majority of them came over to my country, the US), happened back in the 1800s, when all the events you’ve sighted occurred with the Indian tribes. And it’s also when the blacks were slaves.
This is the 21st century. Many things have changed over the years. The US now has a black president. While racism hasn’t been entirely eradicated, we’ve come a long way. If you don’t live in the US, maybe you’re not aware of this. If you follow the “news” from liberal media outlets, you’re probably still not aware of this. The racism card has been played too often.
What country do you live in? I’m only asking because I’d like to know what kind of government is more to your liking. I’d like to know what surpasses the US by so much.
I realize all of this is off topic, but you’re the one who’s brought it up in post after post.

If I wish to let people know the country where I reside I will put it in my profile.

I did not bring up the Irish. You did. And for the last time, I am not going to get into this with you. If you wish to discuss discrimination against the Irish please feel free to start a new thread.

 

[livnlern]

If I wish to let people know the country where I reside I will put it in my profile.

I did not bring up the Irish. You did. And for the last time, I am not going to get into this with you. If you wish to discuss discrimination against the Irish please feel free to start a new thread.

Okay, I’ll let it slide.
If you’ll read my last post, my main points are about the US. The Irish thing was a sideline.
I just didn’t think it was fair for you to make nasty comments about my country. I love my country and will defend it if I see it being criticized unfairly.

 

[faithfully]

I lived through the late 1950s and 1960s. I never feared “duck and cover.” That is a nonsense stereotype. We went out and played. Nobody was constantly afraid. I watched the Cuban Missile Crisis unfold.

We are currently living in Ancient Rome circa 2010, with people gleefully advocating homosexuality, orgies and all kinds of perversions. Where TV shows give us serial killers as lead characters and people who have ‘just sex.’ 2010 is awful and fortunately, thanks to Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II, the Catholic community is gradually turning around.

Please stop with the nonsense stereotypes. As a person who actually lived through the time period in question, your comments make no sense.

Peace,
Ed

I just caught this… my parents were born in '46, and '48. My mom tells me about having bomb alerts (probably mid 50’s she says 3rd and 4th grade). At least once a week, the sirens in town and at school would go off. You would go into the hall, down on your knees, face into knees, and arms over your head to protect their head. She remembers being told that If you saw a flash just get under your desk. My dad remembers being afraid they were going to die in a bombing attack at any minute… So, I don’t think the duck and cover is some crazy stereo type. These are stories we’ve heard from people living in that era…

 

[LittleSoldier]

Ed… MY POINT to you was that you keep going on and on about your generation, and how your generation is the only one that had good manners, respected there parents… and it’s today’s generation that is so degraded. Could you please point me to the area of any of your posts, or post # where you differentiate between Catholics and your generation. I’m sorry I missed that…

Of course the Catholic CHURCH has never endorsed any of this…

Are their “Catholics” that have done awful things…You’ll notice the “priests” that committed the most disgusting of betrayl… aren’t a bunch of younin’s… Nope they’d be from the 50’ and 60, and 70’s…

My point is… the trash that we witness today has been cooking for some time now. IT has not just appeared. Today’s society is a direct result of yesteryear’s societies behavior. And if you’re well enough to walk I don’t care if your 5 or 95… WE ALL have to take back commen decency. Hopefully it’s not too late.

Well said!! I agree completely. I’m reminded of the priest in my parish who was molesting two boys in my class. That was in the 60s - “The Time of No Bad Morals.”

For Pete’s sake, Ed, you are not remembering correctly. I don’t know why but you seem to have taken the reality of the past and turned it into an episode of Leave it to Beaver. It was not the way you remember it or else you lived in the only family in the world to experience life the way you claim you experienced it.

How many times do people have to tell you about the cursing, the sexual innuendos, the grabbing of girls’ breasts as they walked down the street minding their own business, the discrimination against blacks (which has continued to this very day). Don’t you remember the Bay of Pigs incident? The Watts riots?

You keep saying “I was there” as though that gives you some perspective that the rest of us don’t have. What you don’t seem to realize is that others were there, too. Including me. I was born in 1956. I was there, too. A lot of us on CAF were there. Your memory is faulty.

It wasn’t like you say it was. Really, with all due respect, it was not the way you say it was.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I lived through the late 1950s and 1960s. I never feared “duck and cover.” That is a nonsense stereotype. We went out and played. Nobody was constantly afraid. I watched the Cuban Missile Crisis unfold.

We are currently living in Ancient Rome circa 2010, with people gleefully advocating homosexuality, orgies and all kinds of perversions. Where TV shows give us serial killers as lead characters and people who have ‘just sex.’ 2010 is awful and fortunately, thanks to Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul II, the Catholic community is gradually turning around.

Please stop with the nonsense stereotypes. As a person who actually lived through the time period in question, your comments make no sense.

Peace,
Ed

They are not nonsense stereotypes!! Those comments make a great deal of sense. I remember “duck and cover” and before that I remember my parents telling us kids how we were supposed to grab a bunch of canned goods (and can opener) and water, get into the hall (which was the only room in the house without windows), put towels under the doors, and stay there.

Why? Because of something called the Bay of Pigs. I was there, just like you. And I was SCARED.

And “duck and cover” was quite common. I remember the drills in school - get down on the floor into what we would now call a fetal position, pull your head in as well as you could and stay there while the nuclear attack went on. These drills were common. I don’t understand how you could forget something as scary and awful as thinking that we might be annihilated by a nuclear bomb.

My parents gave me a Christian middle name because they were afraid that my name sounded too Jewish and feared for my life just in case someone like Hitler came into power again.

They were scared, Ed.

Yeah, we played outside all summer long. We played “Kick the Can” and had water fights with hoses and buckets. We played tag and a whole bunch of games we made up ourselves. It was great and I’m not saying that my childhood was all fear and worry and terror. I had a wonderful time growing up, for the most part. But it was not all wonderful. For some reason you have forgotten.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Okay, I’ll let it slide.
If you’ll read my last post, my main points are about the US. The Irish thing was a sideline.
I just didn’t think it was fair for you to make nasty comments about my country. I love my country and will defend it if I see it being criticized unfairly.

Let it slide? You are not the only person who loves his/her country. And I did not criticize your country unfairly. The U.S. is a great country - it may in fact be the greatest country to ever exist. It is amazing to me that in a mere 200 years the U.S. became the most powerful country in the world. And I’m well aware that when a catastrophe occurs, the U.S. people are the first ones there to help. I love the U.S.A.!! But it is filled with problems and its past is tainted.

Just like every other country on God’s earth. And that’s because people are really the same everywhere. Now if you want to start a thread on what is good about the U.S. I’ll try to be there and I’ll post some more things that I love about the U.S.

God bless.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Grandpa, tell me 'bout the good ole days.
Sometimes it feels like
This world’s gone crazy.
Grandpa, take me back to yesterday,
Where the line between right and wrong
Didn’t seem so hazy.

Did lovers really fall in love to stay?
Stand beside each other come what may?
Was a promise really something people kept,
Not just something they would say?
Did families really bow their heads to pray?
Did daddies really never go away?
Whoa oh Grandpa,
Tell me 'bout the good ole days.

Grandpa, everything is changing fast.
We call it progress,
But I just don’t know.
And Grandpa, let’s wonder back into the past,
And paint me a picture of long ago.

Did lovers really fall in love to stay?
Stand beside each other come what may?
Was a promise really something people kept,
Not just something they would say and then forget?
Did families really bow their heads to pray?
Did daddies really never go away?
Whoa oh Grandpa,
Tell me 'bout the good ole days.

Whoa oh Grandpa,
Tell me 'bout the good ole days.

[The Judds]

Is this what you remember, Ed? Is your answer to each of those questions “yes”? Oh dear God, I wish it had been that way. Sometimes remembering what I went through makes me cry. And I came from a family with no divorce, no smoking, and every once in awhile Mom would make a drink with a bit of vodka. The first time I saw that I ran up to my Dad and cried “My Mom’s an alcoholic!” and just cried and cried.

We were both there. And I know you don’t like me as I don’t like you. But we’re both Catholics and I hope that means we love each other. I’m pretty sure you’ll ignore this post as you ignored the post where I begged you to stop breaking my heart with your comments. But for everyone else, including the lurkers, I wonder if this is what you think the past was like. I wonder if you answer “yes” to the questions asked in that song.

The answers were not “yes.”. It has never been that way. Never. People sinned in the 20s and 60s and 90s and now. We haven’t changed. Sometimes I think that maybe things were better in the past. Then I get some pain in my jaw where my Mom smacked me so hard across the face and where a friend of my Dad beat me on the bruises on my face that were a result of having my wisdom teeth removed. He did this in the back of our church, before Mass started. And I remember being bullied and how the Sisters at school lied to me and how that priest (and I confessed to him) molested those boys in my class.

I think the best thing we could ever do is to accept the past for what it is - the past. It’s water under the bridge. But we can make things better now. Maybe if we pray to God and ask Mary to pray for us and we are kind to each other and show real love, maybe it will become what you remember. Not in the past, but now.

God bless you, Ed. I’m sorry we can’t get along. I wish you were right about the past.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I just caught this… my parents were born in '46, and '48. My mom tells me about having bomb alerts (probably mid 50’s she says 3rd and 4th grade). At least once a week, the sirens in town and at school would go off. You would go into the hall, down on your knees, face into knees, and arms over your head to protect their head. She remembers being told that If you saw a flash just get under your desk. My dad remembers being afraid they were going to die in a bombing attack at any minute… So, I don’t think the duck and cover is some crazy stereo type. These are stories we’ve heard from people living in that era…

The stories are true, although I went through those drills during the late 60s and early 70s. I remember being in a hall in school and I couldn’t “duck and cover” because my skirt was too short. That might bring up some comments about my morals, but I won’t lie about it. I remember seeing a long hallway with students all the way down the hall, all in that fetal position. All except for me.

It was very, very scary, even though we made jokes about it. And of course it would have made absolutely no difference. If we were lucky we would have been vaporized immediately if a nuclear attack did occur. Not that we knew that - we actually believed we might be OK.

We were scared and we joked just to have some sort of power over our fear. We came so close to being wiped off the planet.

I’m sorry your parents had to go through those experiences. What a horrible thing for a child to go through!!

 

[havana1]

Ed… MY POINT to you was that you keep going on and on about your generation, and how your generation is the only one that had good manners, respected there parents… and it’s today’s generation that is so degraded. Could you please point me to the area of any of your posts, or post # where you differentiate between Catholics and your generation. I’m sorry I missed that…

I, for one, am curious how Ed can change his point mid-stream - “Oh, no! I wasn’t talking about subsequent generations - I was talking about non-Catholics and atheists and commie pinkos corrupting the morals of all generations!” - and that seems to be ok by CAF board standards? That’s not fair.
**
Either it’s:**
(a.) Baby boomers and their parents were good, decent, God-fearing families who wouldn’t stoop so low to the immorality and degradation that Generation X, Generation Y, and the Millenials gave us with their porn and nudie bars. You ignorant little kids have no morals.
*
or, it’s…*

(b.) Scripture has always taught us that Satan has always tried to tempt us.

Which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it it, too. I don’t think there’s anyone who would dispute that non-Catholics have always tried to corrupt. Why wasn’t that the point to begin with? If you’re going to flip-flop once a point is challenged, then obviously people are going to be confused.

And, again, what does “radio testing” have to do with radio broadcast of “War of The Worlds”? It was an ENTERTAINMENT program. People in the ‘good ol’ days’ were actually scared that were being attacked by little green aliens. How, pray tell, can an educated person believe we’re under attack by little green aliens based solely on a radio program that was produced for the expressed purpose of entertainment? I don’t think anything in this day and age compares to the gullibility exemplified by the WofW broadcast.

**The ‘good ol’ days’ are here and now today, in 2010. We’ve never had it so good. **

 

[LittleSoldier]

I, for one, am curious how Ed can change his point mid-stream - “Oh, no! I wasn’t talking about subsequent generations - I was talking about non-Catholics and atheists and commie pinkos corrupting the morals of all generations!” - and that seems to be ok by CAF board standards? That’s not fair.
**
Either it’s:**
(a.) Baby boomers and their parents were good, decent, God-fearing families who wouldn’t stoop so low to the immorality and degradation that Generation X, Generation Y, and the Millenials gave us with their porn and nudie bars. You ignorant little kids have no morals.
*
or, it’s…*

(b.) Scripture has always taught us that Satan has always tried to tempt us.

Which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it it, too. I don’t think there’s anyone who would dispute that non-Catholics have always tried to corrupt. Why wasn’t that the point to begin with? If you’re going to flip-flop once a point is challenged, then obviously people are going to be confused.

And, again, what does “radio testing” have to do with radio broadcast of “War of The Worlds”? It was an ENTERTAINMENT program. People in the ‘good ol’ days’ were actually scared that were being attacked by little green aliens. How, pray tell, can an educated person believe we’re under attack by little green aliens based solely on a radio program that was produced for the expressed purpose of entertainment? I don’t think anything in this day and age compares to the gullibility exemplified by the WofW broadcast.

**The ‘good ol’ days’ are here and now today, in 2010. We’ve never had it so good. **

It’s very difficult for me to comprehend how any person who grew up during the same time period as me could think for even a split second that things were great, that we had morals and therefore were happy, and to demand that we believe this person because “he was there.” It makes absolutely no sense at all.

I honestly think this poster believes what he is saying. But it was not the way he says it was. And it’s never been that way because people are the same and every generation blames the generation before it for screwing everything up.

He has brought up some interesting points but they are buried in bizarre descriptions of a past that didn’t exist. And blaming non-Christians for porn and all the other evils in his list makes no sense, either. How can he not realize that Christians and even Catholic Christians look at porn and fornicate and use ABC? Surely he must realize that Catholics sin.

You’re right about the “good ol’ days.” I was thinking about Carole King yesterday. She said the same thing. These are the good old days and even if they are filled with problems we’ll look back on them with fondness and yearning some day.

God bless!!

 

[edwest2]

I just caught this… my parents were born in '46, and '48. My mom tells me about having bomb alerts (probably mid 50’s she says 3rd and 4th grade). At least once a week, the sirens in town and at school would go off. You would go into the hall, down on your knees, face into knees, and arms over your head to protect their head. She remembers being told that If you saw a flash just get under your desk. My dad remembers being afraid they were going to die in a bombing attack at any minute… So, I don’t think the duck and cover is some crazy stereo type. These are stories we’ve heard from people living in that era…

You don’t think we didn’t go through bomb alerts as well? As a boy, I knew exactly how much time we had from launch to total annihilation. I lived in Detroit, so we were target number 5 on the attack list after a few other industrial centers and Washington, D.C. Our gym had a Civil Defense sign. I never called it a crazy stereotype. I did write that we lived our lives exactly as if nothing was going to happen. Many of our neighbors, and my Dad, were World War II veterans who had been shelled, bombed and saw war up close. At no time did these men express any particular concern about a Soviet attack.

The only time I saw any concern was during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but that was resolved rather quickly.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Grandpa, tell me 'bout the good ole days.
Sometimes it feels like
This world’s gone crazy.
Grandpa, take me back to yesterday,
Where the line between right and wrong
Didn’t seem so hazy.

Did lovers really fall in love to stay?
Stand beside each other come what may?
Was a promise really something people kept,
Not just something they would say?
Did families really bow their heads to pray?
Did daddies really never go away?
Whoa oh Grandpa,
Tell me 'bout the good ole days.

Grandpa, everything is changing fast.
We call it progress,
But I just don’t know.
And Grandpa, let’s wonder back into the past,
And paint me a picture of long ago.

Did lovers really fall in love to stay?
Stand beside each other come what may?
Was a promise really something people kept,
Not just something they would say and then forget?
Did families really bow their heads to pray?
Did daddies really never go away?
Whoa oh Grandpa,
Tell me 'bout the good ole days.

Whoa oh Grandpa,
Tell me 'bout the good ole days.

[The Judds]

Is this what you remember, Ed? Is your answer to each of those questions “yes”? Oh dear God, I wish it had been that way. Sometimes remembering what I went through makes me cry. And I came from a family with no divorce, no smoking, and every once in awhile Mom would make a drink with a bit of vodka. The first time I saw that I ran up to my Dad and cried “My Mom’s an alcoholic!” and just cried and cried.

We were both there. And I know you don’t like me as I don’t like you. But we’re both Catholics and I hope that means we love each other. I’m pretty sure you’ll ignore this post as you ignored the post where I begged you to stop breaking my heart with your comments. But for everyone else, including the lurkers, I wonder if this is what you think the past was like. I wonder if you answer “yes” to the questions asked in that song.

The answers were not “yes.”. It has never been that way. Never. People sinned in the 20s and 60s and 90s and now. We haven’t changed. Sometimes I think that maybe things were better in the past. Then I get some pain in my jaw where my Mom smacked me so hard across the face and where a friend of my Dad beat me on the bruises on my face that were a result of having my wisdom teeth removed. He did this in the back of our church, before Mass started. And I remember being bullied and how the Sisters at school lied to me and how that priest (and I confessed to him) molested those boys in my class.

I think the best thing we could ever do is to accept the past for what it is - the past. It’s water under the bridge. But we can make things better now. Maybe if we pray to God and ask Mary to pray for us and we are kind to each other and show real love, maybe it will become what you remember. Not in the past, but now.

God bless you, Ed. I’m sorry we can’t get along. I wish you were right about the past.

Very sad. I do not write as an individual but as part of the media. The media company I work for has actual standards for decency and morality. Our work is purposely very family friendly. I suggest you pick up a copy of The Creation of the Media by Paul Starr.

You seem to want to ignore the fact that time, money and effort was put into putting porn in our neighborhoods. Buildings had to be purchased and leased, employees hired, trucking companies and printers contacted and hired to produce and distribute filth. A salesman at a trucking company told me how skid after skid of porn magazines had to be covered with heavy black plastic before final shipment to distribution centers. And book and magazine distributors had to be brought on board to handle part of this filth as well.

Christians did not want this or finance this. Then they brought in young women to topless bars and strip clubs. To this day, articles are written talking about people who do not want such businesses in their neighborhoods.

There was no Church collection to support the local strip club or adult bookstore but others, outsiders, knew that in order to introduce us to their perverted lifestyle, they had to multiply the temptations right in our own neighborhoods.

Peace,
Ed

 

[LittleSoldier]

Very sad. I do not write as an individual but as part of the media. The media company I work for has actual standards for decency and morality. Our work is purposely very family friendly. I suggest you pick up a copy of The Creation of the Media by Paul Starr.

You seem to want to ignore the fact that time, money and effort was put into putting porn in our neighborhoods. Buildings had to be purchased and leased, employees hired, trucking companies and printers contacted and hired to produce and distribute filth. A salesman at a trucking company told me how skid after skid of porn magazines had to be covered with heavy black plastic before final shipment to distribution centers. And book and magazine distributors had to be brought on board to handle part of this filth as well.

Christians did not want this or finance this. Then they brought in young women to topless bars and strip clubs. To this day, articles are written talking about people who do not want such businesses in their neighborhoods.

There was no Church collection to support the local strip club or adult bookstore but others, outsiders, knew that in order to introduce us to their perverted lifestyle, they had to multiply the temptations right in our own neighborhoods.

Peace,
Ed

How can you be so sure that Christians didn’t want this? I don’t mean that the Church wanted it, but individual Christians, including Catholics, were most likely some of the people who opened strip clubs and sold porn. We sin.

What bothers me about your posts is that IMHO you don’t see that Christians can act one way on Sunday and be horribly immoral the rest of the week. Now you can say they aren’t really Christians if they act immorally but is that really true? We as Catholics have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. We know that we sin and that we can be forgiven for our sins.

I apologize that I’m not explaining this very well. Maybe the following quote will help:

“We have met the enemy and he is us.” - Walt Kelly.

I agree that the Church had nothing to do with any increase in immoral behavior. If anything, the Church warned against it. It’s the individual people who call themselves Christian that have been partially to blame for the mess we are in now. And it all seems to come down to sex and rationalizing so that one doesn’t need to feel guilty about using ABC or having an abortion. For some reason sex is seen as worth it.

When you say “Christians” are you referring to individual Christians or to the Church? Maybe we are talking past each other. I can’t remember the name of the abortion provider who was shot to death while standing in the church to which he belonged. If he was in a church he must have believed he was Christian. Yet he was murdering unborn children during the week.

I have neighbors who consider themselves to be good Christians and have had abortions, use ABC, use foul language, steal, cheat, and lie. I can’t judge them but I can say their actions are immoral. Yet they insist they are good Christians who follow Jesus. My grandpa was Catholic but he gambled away the grocery money even though he had a wife and eight children to feed. And this was during the Depression years. I’ve known Catholics who have committed adultery and gotten divorced in order to remarry without bothering to even apply for an annulment. When my Mom became pregnant with me the obstetrician wanted to abort me. He practiced at a Catholic hospital.

I just see so much hypocrisy among Christians. I wonder if you see it, too.

So I guess I’m having some problems with what you mean by “Christians.”

Also, it seems that you think it was very organized, like there were some very evil people who planned this whole thing and that it was coordinated: buying buildings, bringing in women to strip, etc. I don’t see this. I see it more as a cancer that is spreading but without a central tumor that is directing the growth of the cancer, unless that central tumor is Satan and I would agree with that. I realize that the Mafia and other groups planned to take over areas and introduce immoral businesses. I’m thinking specifically of Las Vegas. It has happened. But I don’t see one central force for the entire U.S., unless again it is Satan.

Does this make sense? Please, I know the Church is not involved in any of this and I apologize if I gave you the impression that I believe that. What I see is that the Church has stood firm during all this and has refused to cave in to pressure from secular groups and other “Christian” groups. That is one thing I love about the Church and I rely on her consistent teachings. I know I can trust Church teaching because Jesus founded the Church and I don’t think He would do so in a lazy manner or that when He said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it He was really just kidding and nudging Peter with his elbow, saying “Get it? Get it?”. The Catholic Church is the church my Mom decided to join when she was a teenager. She realized that Jesus founded the Church so it must be the True Church. She joined and she never left or appeared to falter in her faith.

I hope this makes some sense. It’s late and I’m very tired.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Very sad. I do not write as an individual but as part of the media. The media company I work for has actual standards for decency and morality. Our work is purposely very family friendly. I suggest you pick up a copy of The Creation of the Media by Paul Starr.

You seem to want to ignore the fact that time, money and effort was put into putting porn in our neighborhoods. Buildings had to be purchased and leased, employees hired, trucking companies and printers contacted and hired to produce and distribute filth. A salesman at a trucking company told me how skid after skid of porn magazines had to be covered with heavy black plastic before final shipment to distribution centers. And book and magazine distributors had to be brought on board to handle part of this filth as well.

Christians did not want this or finance this. Then they brought in young women to topless bars and strip clubs. To this day, articles are written talking about people who do not want such businesses in their neighborhoods.

There was no Church collection to support the local strip club or adult bookstore but others, outsiders, knew that in order to introduce us to their perverted lifestyle, they had to multiply the temptations right in our own neighborhoods.

Peace,
Ed

What I’m writing should really be in a PM, but just in case anyone else is interested I thought I would post it here. I’ll be happy to pick up a copy of the book, but I checked it out on Amazon and it comes in several formats. In your opinion, is this a book that I would want to mark up and make notes and underline passages (so that I would need a fairly decent, preferably hardback copy) or is an old used paperback copy sufficient?

I’d try the library but our library here is not too good on having books and they don’t do inter-library loans. I finally had to buy a copy of Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? because our library didn’t have a copy and couldn’t get one. And I did all that just to read the last line in the book because I couldn’t remember it (of course now I would just google it).

Thanks for any info!!

 

[mangy_dog]

In books, movies, television shows, video games, etc., how much immoral behavior, graphic sex, graphic violence, or blasphemy should be tolerated for the sake of what is good there?

Does it make a difference if the immorality is condemned or supported in the work?

Some examples:
Another thread talked about the Stieg Larrson books of which I think the first one had too much of the “bad stuff” to make me want to read the others in spite of what I liked about it.

My DH likes to watch South Park and Family Guy b/c of the humor in these shows. I find parts of them very funny also, but the blasphemy of the 1st show and the raunchy humor and blasphemy of the 2nd are too much in my opinion to support them.

I do watch and like The Daily Show and the Colbert Report however and see their occasional religious humor as often making a valid point. But sometimes they go too far also, IMO.

What do you all think?

It has been a demonic plot for ages to de-sensitize our moral sensibilities in a slow, gradual way, through the ages so that - by the time we get to 11/24/10 - we are not sure how much is “too much”.

Our current moral trend may have seemed apocalyptic mayhem to someone living in the 1940’s or 50’s.
The moral trend of 2015 or 2020 will probably seem like apocalyptic chaos to someone from 2010 or 2011.

It’s all relative to the success of demonic activity, world influence and our own concupiscience.

God help us. It is probably the reason why the Catholic church is viewed as antiquated, outdated, archaic and [just plain out of touch with the modern world]

In hoc signo vinces

 

[LittleSoldier]

It has been a demonic plot for ages to de-sensitize our moral sensibilities in a slow, gradual way, through the ages so that - by the time we get to 11/24/10 - we are not sure how much is “too much”.

Our current moral trend may have seemed apocalyptic mayhem to someone living in the 1940’s or 50’s.
The moral trend of 2015 or 2020 will probably seem like apocalyptic chaos to someone from 2010 or 2011.

It’s all relative to the success of demonic activity, world influence and our own concupiscience.

God help us. It is probably the reason why the Catholic church is viewed as antiquated, outdated, archaic and [just plain out of touch with the modern world]

In hoc signo vinces

Good post. I think you’re right and I posted earlier that if there is some sort of centralized organization responsible for the immorality we see now it’s probably headed by Satan. I had thought that it was formed of people and I still think that, but those people could very well be influenced by Satan (whom we all know is nasty and tricky and sly).

What may appear to be paranoia may actually be insight into truth. If Satan tried to get his claws on Jesus, why wouldn’t he be trying to get his claws on us?

But wouldn’t Satan have been pulling his old tricks all through the ages? I still believe that immorality has been with us for as long as there have been people.

It’s possible that he is more successful now than in the past. We need to rely on the strength that God has given us, including the armor we all have as part of the Church Militant. Satan can’t win but we may have a fight on our hands and there may be a lot of casualties.

Part of the reason I have stayed with the Church is that her position is unchanging. While other religious organizations fall prey to contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc., the Church keeps right on speaking Truth. I can hardly believe I left the Church and for all the time I wasn’t practicing anything except a diluted form of Christianity. I’m glad I’m home.

 

[edwest2]

This is a very bad time to be looking at the media.

First was radio. A limited amount of things you could do with that.

Television reached production quality in the 1930s but World War II got in the way of mass production. Movies were now under the watchful eye of the Catholic Legion of Decency who attempted dialogue with filmmakers. These filmmakers made certain promises, some of which they did not act on.

Newspapers and magazines were well read, but they too, fell under the watchful eye of numerous groups. As time passed, even newspaper comic strips began to deal with certain subject matter in a less than comic way. Doonesbury was deemed too political by some newspapers and was moved to the editorial page or dropped or censored. This was entirely the right of the newspaper which was a privately owned entity.

Television, unlike movies, featured local programs and news. It became the engaging mass marketing medium advertisers were waiting for. At first, it was a welcome guest in our home. There were certain words you could not say and situations you could not show on television. Television stations had Standards and Practices Departments that would screen all programs and advertising to make sure no objectionable content was there.

It may surprise some here, but there was a real concern to live up to high standards, taste and modesty. In the 1950s and 1960s, TV shows were very reflective of Catholic ideals, values and morals.

That changed as programming became more risque in the 1970s. In the 1980s, Cable TV offered more channels, and more choices. No one told us about the porn, which eventually ended up in motels.

By the 1990s, things just became raunchier and raunchier on radio, TV, movies and magazines. Rap disrespected women. Howard Stern showed people what it was like to be an adult sexual pervert. Then, the internet.

So, what do we have today? Hyper-sexualization of the media. Soft porn in supermarkets. Dirty songs on the radio. And 24/7 global porn on the internet.

Oh yes, immorality has always existed but while I was on the internet at the library, my screen suddenly disappeared and I found myself on another site with graphic porn. I didn’t do it. That’s how it worked at first. Whether you wanted it or not - right in your face.

That is why I tell Catholics: find a Catholic radio station. If you don’t have a local station, find one on the internet. Forget about TV except for the news. Magazines? Unless it’s about cooking, there are few left worth buying. Popular Science is OK, at least for now. Movies? Just skip past all the ones where boy meets girl and they hop in the sack. Which leaves you with the occasional movie from PIXAR and maybe one or two others - a year.

The internet? I go to a handful of forums and have dumped the rest. The rest are usually filled with loud, obnoxious and incredibly rude people who enjoy insulting others. They think “freedom” means you can combine the dirtiest words you can think of in new and not really clever ways. Being a complete jerk is considered cool.

It’s time Catholics realized that the PRIMARY character template on TV and in the movies is The Dysfunctionals. A bunch of messed up, out of control, hopelessly confused, fornicating bunch of people that are just stumbling along in life. Self-control? Who needs it?
Here’s an example: attractive girl goes to club with her attractive friend, she spots a guy that does not look like a serial killer. They dance. They have sex. She gets pregnant. It vaguely occurs to both of them that this is something they should do something about - sorta, I don’t know, maybe. The guy even sorta regrets what happened. Kinda.

Or how about this? Semi-attractive young doctor goes to bar and picks up guy for anonymous sex. After they’re done, guy attempts to talk, she nixes the idea and both leave. Kind of like two dogs meeting in an alley.

And, I saved the best for last. Dexter - that lovable serial killer on TV. Yep, the lead character kidnaps people and cuts them up, while he works at a police crime lab by day. Cool, huh?

Wake up people. If you’re young, take up a hobby that doesn’t involve immoral actions. If you’re older, take a look at the time you have left and do something that has some virtue. Something fun and wholesome. Let the dirt and filth go. It’s not getting you anywhere.

Peace,
Ed

 

[StrawberryJam]

Ed,

I disagree with this:
It may surprise some here, but there was a real concern to live up to high standards, taste and modesty. In the 1950s and 1960s, TV shows were very reflective of Catholic ideals, values and morals

Unless, you think seperate beds for married persons is reflective of Catholic ideals. I’ve never been into the master bedroom of a married Catholic couple to know.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Ed,

I disagree with this:
It may surprise some here, but there was a real concern to live up to high standards, taste and modesty. In the 1950s and 1960s, TV shows were very reflective of Catholic ideals, values and morals

Unless, you think seperate beds for married persons is reflective of Catholic ideals. I’ve never been into the master bedroom of a married Catholic couple to know.

Hi Strawberry! (btw, you need to clean out your inbox)!

Like I keep saying, I haven’t turned on my TV for over a year, so I don’t know about most of the current shows. I know there are some good ones because people I know who have high moral standards watch them and like them. The last series I saw was the X-Files and that ended about ten years ago.

But I think discussing morality and TV series is a lot more complicated than many people think. Your point about the separate beds is spot on. I’ve only seen the bedroom of one Catholic couple that had two twin-size beds in it and that couple was probably in their 70s when I saw that room (they also had children so I am assuming they were able to procreate somehow ).

In one respect Ed is correct about the 50s and 60s. I decided to do a bit of research. Here are some show titles and the years in which they were shown (minus some repeats, of course):

Leave it to Beaver: 1957-1963
Father Knows Best: 1954-1960
The Dick Van **** Show: 1961-1966(oh for Pete’s sake!! The actor’s name has been banned by CAF!!)
Bonanza: 1959-1973
*I Love Lucy/]: 1951-1957
Make Room for Daddy: 1953-1964
Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet: 1952-1966
Alfred Hitchcock Presents: 1955-1966
Our Miss Brooks1952-1956
Perry Mason: 1957-1966
The Thin Man: 1957-1959
The Donna Reed Show1958-1966

It’s probably true that morality was shown in these shows, although I doubt it was done at the behest of the Catholic Church (but that’s only my opinion). But how realistic were these shows? To me, some of these shows, like The Dick Van Dyyke Show are classic and hilarious and made no pretensions about morality (from the little I can remember). Others, such as [The] Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet make me wonder. I didn’t understand why Ozzie and his sons often ended up in the garage, drinking lukewarm Coke. My Mom didn’t wear a dress around the house like Mrs. Cleaver and Donna Reed. And I don’t remember any episode where any character’s mother smacked a child actor across the face.

If the morals shown in these shows accurately reflected the morals of society, what happened? If people enjoyed watching shows that contained morality, even if it didn’t reflect the morals of society, why weren’t these types of shows continued? Why don’t we have Our Miss Brooks on TV today? What happened? Do moral shows somehow “cause” a moral society? I think we can throw that hypothesis out. Does society “cause” the immoral acts shown in modern TV shows? I think this is a possibility, at least to a certain extent. It all comes down to profit. If the commercials shown on shows with what might be considered poor morals induce people to buy the products advertised, that show has a higher chance of being successful.

I think that a valid comparison can be made between the TV shows of the 50s-60s and those being aired today, with the exception of most documentaries in which morality doesn’t even play a role. I think there can be no doubt that the morals shown on present-day prime-time TV are well, really awful. Even though I don’t watch TV I hear things and I did watch prime-time TV years ago. I remember when my sister taped a show for us to watch and in the opening scene there was obvious sexual intercourse being shown. We stared at each other in shock. I was horribly embarrassed.

So what do we do? Have unrealistic morality shown or do we agree to have realistic immorality shown on TV?

I’m just throwing this in. I have no answers or solutions to offer. This whole subject is rather depressing.*