How much should physical attraction matter?

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Debora123 said:
Any Church documents that say premarital kissing is intrinsically evil?

No.

There isn’t one. :rolleyes:
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Nopes. I didn’t mention kissing in my post.

Seems like you have access to all docs containing Church teachings. That’s why I’m asking where I can find the collection.
 
Debora123 said:
Any Church documents that say premarital kissing is intrinsically evil?

No.

There isn’t one. :rolleyes:
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No one said all forms of kissing before marriage are intrinsically evil… in fact, I think you are the one who introduced ‘intrinsically evil’ in reference to kissing. I don’t think anyone else used that terminology. Also, there are plenty of actions against chastity and purity out there that you are not going to find spelled out in a document. Just because it isn’t spelled out, doesn’t mean it is good…do you disagree? This is where formation of one’s conscience, finding a good confessor/spiritual director, etc come into play.

From the Catechism:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
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If neither experiences any sexual pleasure whatsoever when kissing passionately (and it isn’t an occasion of sin etc etc) then I can see your point. But then I would suggest it maybe they aren’t that attracted to each other if passionate kissing doesn’t do anything…
 
kelvinf said:
Nopes. I didn’t mention kissing in my post.

Seems like you have access to all docs containing Church teachings. That’s why I’m asking where I can find the collection.
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Yes, we do. As do you. The Vatican’s website is truly an extraordinary resource.
 
It really depends on how passionate the kissing is. Making-out can get to the point that it is arguably as sinful as having premarital relations. A loving smooch or two isn’t necessarily wrong (IMHO). I think there is something to be said for testing the waters a little with a kiss to make sure that the love is romantic and not brother/sister love.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
Yes, we do. As do you. The Vatican’s website is truly an extraordinary resource.
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Yes, it’s an extraordinary resource. But does it contain all Church documents? Okay, show me where you can find the bull of Pope Gregory IX “Mira Circa Nos” on the Vatican website for instance. I can’t find it there. But maybe you can. 🤷
 
kelvinf said:
Nopes. I didn’t mention kissing in my post.

Seems like you have access to all docs containing Church teachings. That’s why I’m asking where I can find the collection.
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Anyone who has internet connection has access to a lot of docs containing Church teaching. Just do a google search for it and you too can have all the access in the world!

I’m glad I was able to help you out with that today. 🙂
 
Debora123 said:
Anyone who has internet connection has access to a lot of docs containing Church teaching. Just do a google search for it and you too can have all the access in the world!

I’m glad I was able to help you out with that today. 🙂
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Ha ha. :nope: You haven’t been able to help me. 😉

A lot of documents != all documents.

FYI: Googlebot only crawls about 75% of the web. In addition to that, robots can’t index everything on the web. They can be blocked,… etc
 
12345678 said:
No one said all forms of kissing before marriage are intrinsically evil… in fact, I think you are the one who introduced ‘intrinsically evil’ in reference to kissing. I don’t think anyone else used that terminology. Also, there are plenty of actions against chastity and purity out there that you are not going to find spelled out in a document. Just because it isn’t spelled out, doesn’t mean it is good…do you disagree? This is where formation of one’s conscience, finding a good confessor/spiritual director, etc come into play.
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When you compared it to abortion, you made it seem like you thought it was intrinsically evil, since that is what abortion it. 🤷 Sorry if I misunderstood.
If neither experiences any sexual pleasure whatsoever when kissing passionately (and it isn’t an occasion of sin etc etc) then I can see your point. But then I would suggest it maybe they aren’t that attracted to each other if passionate kissing doesn’t do anything…
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I don’t see how anyone would experience sexual pleasure while kissing, since the sexual parts aren’t being stimulated.

Sexual arousal? Sure, that can happen when you show someone affection by kissing them… deeply or lightly. You know what else can cause sexual arousal? Seeing your significant other, hugging your significant other, ball dancing with them, cuddling, holding hands… heck, I know my husband confessed to me that he used to get aroused by as much as hearing my voice over the phone when we lived long distance.

If a particular couple has a hard time overcoming temptation when they kiss, then they should avoid it. But to make a blanket statement and say that kissing is a sin is a little far fetched in my opinion.
 
kelvinf said:
Ha ha. :nope: You haven’t been able to help me. 😉

A lot of documents != all documents.

FYI: Googlebot only crawls about 75% of the web. In addition to that, robots can’t index everything on the web. They can be blocked,… etc
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You can still do a google search and do an online order of whatever other information you are looking for that is not already on the internet. But a lot of it already is. If you have a credit card and internet access, you can pretty much get whatever you need.

PS- most of the stuff blocked by google is pornography, so you should be able to find whatever you’re looking for.
 
Debora123 said:
You can still do a google search and do an online order of whatever other information you are looking for that is not already on the internet. But a lot of it already is. If you have a credit card and internet access, you can pretty much get whatever you need.

PS- most of the stuff blocked by google is pornography, so you should be able to find whatever you’re looking for.
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Lo, in as much as you find lots of stuff one the web, Google, the biggest search engine, ain’t capable of crawling the entire web. Some people even dispute the reported 75% web coverage, saying it might be less than that since Googlebot relies on indexing hyperlinks. Meaning sites without links would hardly be indexed by the bot.

Re “they can be blocked”, I meant crawlers can be blocked by webmasters and not Google blocking sites.

Taking all these facts into consideration, you would understand that you can’t find everything on the web, not to talk of the internet.
 
kelvinf said:
Lo, in as much as you find lots of stuff one the web, Google, the biggest search engine, ain’t capable of crawling the entire web. Some people even dispute the reported 75% web coverage, saying it might be less than that since Googlebot relies on indexing hyperlinks. Meaning sites without links would hardly be indexed by the bot.

Re “they can be blocked”, I meant crawlers can be blocked by webmasters and not Google blocking sites.

Taking all these facts into consideration, you would understand that you can’t find everything on the web, not to talk of the internet.
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Well I hope you continue on your quest to find what you are looking for.
 
12345678 said:
OP, another thought, there is a difference between A. you not being attracted to someone, and B. you worrying about what others may think regardless of how you feel, and not being satisfied because of your pride in wanting to walk around showing what a ‘good catch’ you got in secular standards. Just make sure that the reason you are breaking up is A and not B.
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If it’s B, I still think he shouldn’t be with her until he gets those worries out of his mind.
B sounds immature and childish, I love her, but what will everyone say, she’s fat, and I want some eye-candy. If someone’s still thinking like that, they are definitely not old enough for a serious relationship, let alone marriage.
 
Ms_Manners said:
If it’s B, I still think he shouldn’t be with her until he gets those worries out of his mind.
B sounds immature and childish, I love her, but what will everyone say, she’s fat, and I want some eye-candy. If someone’s still thinking like that, they are definitely not old enough for a serious relationship, let alone marriage.
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I don’t think we should be giving him such a hard time for being reluctant to keep dating someone he’s not attracted to.

The fact that he’s simply not feeling the chemistry with someone he just recently got in a relationship with, doesn’t mean he has some sort of “issues” that need worked on.
 
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