How narrow is the narrow gate?

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** [13]** *"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. *
[14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"

–The Gospel according to Matthew, Chapter 7 (Douay-Rheims Bible)

How narrow is this gate?

Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?

What are these verses saying?
 
How narrow is this gate?
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Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?
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That’s a management decision. Your job is to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.

And never forget: “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”
 
Absolutely. I think it is straightforward. 70 percent of the world are not Christians and Jesus is the only way…so do the math.
 
=ajpirc;8018706]** [13]** *"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. *
[14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"
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–The Gospel according to Matthew, Chapter 7 (Douay-Rheims Bible)
Click to expand...
How narrow is this gate?
Click to expand...
Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?
Click to expand...
What are these verses saying?
Click to expand...
IMPLYING… NO 🤷

Proclaiming as TRUE …YES:eek:

God Bless,
Pat
 
ajpirc said:
** [13]** *"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. *
[14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"

–The Gospel according to Matthew, Chapter 7 (Douay-Rheims Bible)

How narrow is this gate?

Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?

What are these verses saying?
Click to expand...
They are describing a hypodermic syringe, a 16 gauge syringe is typically used for whole blood.

So how narrow is the gate?

About 1.4mm, .063 inches, or 1400 microns.

God works in mysterious ways, but always towards truth revealed.

jomoco
 
Using two contrasting ideas such as narrow/wide gates or broad/constricted roads was a common rabinnical teaching tool. Jesus’ remarks about entering the narrow gate, I believe, was a way in which he was contrasting those who judge others and so are themselves liable to judgement with those who forgive and thereby spare themeselves judgement.

The city gates were where the Old Testament judges sat and where people brought lawsuits against their neighbor. A smaller, less used, narrow gate would have had less powerful judges, while a wide and often used gate would have had the most powerful and important judges present. Jesus’ words in Matthew 7:13-14 were part of the Sermon on the Mount in which he addressed his comments to great crowds of Jews from upon the mountain. His reference to the narrow and wide gates would have been immediately recognizable to the Jews present as both a teaching tool where opposite ideas are contrasted, and a reference to judges, especially given the fact that he says “Stop judging that you may not be judged” in verse 1 and his comments about hypocrisy in the verses previous.

It is difficult not to judge others, but that is one of the ways in which we avoid judgement ourselves, “For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.” (Matthew 7:2)

People can presume to know how relative numbers of people who will get to heaven by “Doing the math” if they want, but in so doing they engage in the very judgement that Jesus warns us about. It’s not about who will get to heaven and who will not; that misses Jesus’ point entirely. It’s about not judging your neighbor, because we are really then just hypocrites. Jesus says, "You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first (Matthew 7:5). Every single one of us deserve to be thrown into Hell for our sins and only by God’s mercy does anyone get into Heaven. We are all beggars before The King so who are we to judge our neighbors?

-Tim-
 
I don’t see how it is being judgmental to say that many will most likely not go to Heaven. The Bible is very specific when it discusses the kinds of actions and such that do not merit a place in Heaven. That is why we have classifications of sins. Also, those who do not believe in God, or follow false Gods, etc. are not exactly following the teachings of Jesus. We are allowed to judge actions, not people and we can see that there are many who are not doing the things that are necessary for salvation. I hope everyone is saved but I think we seriously need to look at the reality of things. So really, you need to think, does it really not matter what we do? Everyone is saved regardless of the difficulty in which they strive to live the Will of God? Is there no reason to follow the teachings of Jesus? Do you honestly believe that? God is good and God is just and being just requires fairness. It is not for me to say who is saved and who isn’t and I am certainly not doing so, but I do not think it would be incorrect to understand that many, maybe even most will not be saved because of their failure to repent, or to follow the Will of God. I truly hope we are all saved, but looking at it objectively and from what we read in the bible and what we are taught by our priests, I don’t think we can say this is so. I do not think this is being judgmental and I have discussed this issue with my priest as well to see what his thoughts were on the subject.
 
BRZ said:
I don’t see how it is being judgmental to say that many will most likely not go to Heaven. The Bible is very specific when it discusses the kinds of actions and such that do not merit a place in Heaven. That is why we have classifications of sins. Also, those who do not believe in God, or follow false Gods, etc. are not exactly following the teachings of Jesus. We are allowed to judge actions, not people and we can see that there are many who are not doing the things that are necessary for salvation. I hope everyone is saved but I think we seriously need to look at the reality of things. So really, you need to think, does it really not matter what we do? Everyone is saved regardless of the difficulty in which they strive to live the Will of God? Is there no reason to follow the teachings of Jesus? Do you honestly believe that? God is good and God is just and being just requires fairness. It is not for me to say who is saved and who isn’t and I am certainly not doing so, but I do not think it would be incorrect to understand that many, maybe even most will not be saved because of their failure to repent, or to follow the Will of God. I truly hope we are all saved, but looking at it objectively and from what we read in the bible and what we are taught by our priests, I don’t think we can say this is so. I do not think this is being judgmental and I have discussed this issue with my priest as well to see what his thoughts were on the subject.
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Nowhere does it say that God is fair, or that he has to be. He can let sinners live and the righteous die if he wants. That’s God’s perogative. He took my 4 1/2 year old daughter while murderers and rapists live. How is that fair?

Just because judgment is not applied to an individual but to a group, doesn’t mean it is not judging others. Yes, the reality is that some people may not go to Heaven. I totally agree with you. But that doesn’t mean that we can assume anything about any group of people. Doing so misses the entire point of Jesus discourse, that we are not to judge at all, and are to focus on ourselves instead, that we are to judge ourselves and look to your own salvation, not to presume anything about any group or individual. That was Jesus point, not the relative ease or difficulty with which we achieve salvation.

-Tim-
 
I am sorry for your loss but it was not God who took your child. Your logic here is flawed. You are discussing two completely different things. You also don’t seem to understand what Heaven and Hell are I think. Also the Catholic church teaches that it is we ourselves that choose whether we will be with God or not by our choices, words, actions and faith in this life. Hell is not some punishment that God doles out to the unworthy and that is something I think you have confused. Hell is chosen by those who go there because of their constant state of rebellion against God’s will for us. Those who choose to follow other religions, who choose anything over God are only choosing their own fate. We can’t hope to understand everything and there may be other chances for us that God has not revealed to us but we can only discuss What has been revealed. This is not a judgment and is truth. If you think this is judgment you fail to grasp what I am saying.
 
=BRZ;8029211]I don’t see how it is being judgmental to say that many will most likely not go to Heaven. The Bible is very specific when it discusses the kinds of actions and such that do not merit a place in Heaven. That is why we have classifications of sins. Also, those who do not believe in God, or follow false Gods, etc. are not exactly following the teachings of Jesus. We are allowed to judge actions, not people and we can see that there are many who are not doing the things that are necessary for salvation. I hope everyone is saved but I think we seriously need to look at the reality of things. So really, you need to think, does it really not matter what we do? Everyone is saved regardless of the difficulty in which they strive to live the Will of God? Is there no reason to follow the teachings of Jesus? Do you honestly believe that? God is good and God is just and being just requires fairness. It is not for me to say who is saved and who isn’t and I am certainly not doing so, but I do not think it would be incorrect to understand that many, maybe even most will not be saved because of their failure to repent, or to follow the Will of God. I truly hope we are all saved, but looking at it objectively and from what we read in the bible and what we are taught by our priests, I don’t think we can say this is so. I do not think this is being judgmental and I have discussed this issue with my priest as well to see what his thoughts were on the subject.
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YOU FRIEND ARE RIGHT!👍

Catholic ONLY share what Jesus Himself say’s! So unblief is denial of God! “Many ARe called BUT few are Chosen” Matthew 22:14 :o

God Bless,
Pat
 
BRZ said:
I am sorry for your loss but it was not God who took your child. Your logic here is flawed. You are discussing two completely different things. You also don’t seem to understand what Heaven and Hell are I think. Also the Catholic church teaches that it is we ourselves that choose whether we will be with God or not by our choices, words, actions and faith in this life. Hell is not some punishment that God doles out to the unworthy and that is something I think you have confused. Hell is chosen by those who go there because of their constant state of rebellion against God’s will for us. Those who choose to follow other religions, who choose anything over God are only choosing their own fate. We can’t hope to understand everything and there may be other chances for us that God has not revealed to us but we can only discuss What has been revealed. This is not a judgment and is truth. If you think this is judgment you fail to grasp what I am saying.
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The statement that I don’t understand, am confused, fail to grasp free will and the choice to enter Hell is, I think, probably without merit. I’m honestly strugling a bit to understand how you came up with that from my post.

I could have used a less provocative example than the death of my daughter to illustrate that God does not promise fairness. It was simply a comment in relation to the statement made that God promises fairness and not an accusation of God. I’m sorry if I came across that way and in rereading my comments, it clearly seems as if that is what I did. But God does demand our lives from us in one way or another, and one lives while another dies. That cannot be considered fair, and that is not what God promises. Fairness is not an attribute of God.

A summary of my statement is this: “The narrow gate” reference at the conclusion of the Sermon on the Mount has little to do with who will and who will not enter heaven or the relative numbers of people who will and will not enter heaven. That is not what Jesus was addressing. He was addressing judging others so that you do not get judged. Those who continue to speak about who will and will not get into heaven miss the point of Jesus words in that particular passage. That’s all I’m saying.

And I’ve said it three times, so I’ll respectfully drop off here and let you all continue.

Quite frankly, I’m tempted here, and have actually started to engage in “You didn’t understand what I said” and “You didn’t answer my quesiton” type debating that goes on in some threads. I avoid those arguments for the sake of peace.

And I do hope that you all remain in Christ’s peace. 👍

-Tim-
.

.
 
I was just studying this the other day, it was a daily Mass reading.

THE NARROW GATE: An image with various associations.

(1) Cities surrounded by a fortified wall had gates to permit access. Main gates were wide and tall enough for caravans of people and animals; smaller gates permitted only pedestrian traffic.

Jesus envisions the MANY passing with ease through the a main gate. The FEW must exert greater effort to enter a narrow pedestrian gate (cf Matt 22:14).

(2) The Jerusalem Temple had a series of gates that prohibited entry for the unqualified; only a privileged few had close access to God. This teaching of the “two ways” is common in the OT (Deut 30:15-20; Ps 1; Wis 5:6-7; CCC 1696).

Ref Ignatius Catholic Study Bible NT
 
ajpirc said:
** [13]** *"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. *
[14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"

–The Gospel according to Matthew, Chapter 7 (Douay-Rheims Bible)

How narrow is this gate?

Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?

What are these verses saying?
Click to expand...
I think the idea may be that if one goes to hell that is too many (wide gate); if not all go to heaven that is too few (narrow gate)
 
ajpirc said:
** [13]** *"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. *
[14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"

–The Gospel according to Matthew, Chapter 7 (Douay-Rheims Bible)

How narrow is this gate?

Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?

What are these verses saying?
Click to expand...
Christ did not imply anything. I think that we should take those words for what they are, nothing more and nothing less. God wants everybody to be in heaven with Him but He accepted to respect our free will and so many will go to hell (and that clearly means that there will be people in hell) and few will go to heaven. The Church never declared that the majority of the people will go the hell, it is just the personal opinion of quite a few people.

I think that you could look at things this way: If we take the parables of the good shepherd and the one of the woman that lost the coin you can see that even one lost soul is too many to Jesus. Now if you look at the complement of that statement you can see that less than 100% saved souls it is only a few saved.

Now some people might disagree and say that many simply means the majority but that it is a huge risk that they take because then we have to deal with the words that the priest speaks during the consecration of the wine. If we understand our theology we know that Jesus died for all, and the present poor translation for the words of consecration from ICEL says that. Now we also know that not everybody will accept Jesus redemptive work (the “many” of the passage that you quoted) and just a part will be saved (the “few” of the passage that you quoted).

However, now we have a major conundrum because the Council of Trent made it clear that during the consecration the Church should not affirm the theological point that Christ died “for all” but the Church should simply affirm the fruits of Jesus’ sacrifice. So if we follow the Council of Trend the improper translation “for all” is going out of the door and we are left with the original wording “pro multis”. That means that the fruits of Jesus’ sacrifice are “pro multis” or “for many”. Now is we assume that many implies the majority you can see that there is a contradiction between the biblical passage that you quoted and words that the Church must use to describe the fruits of Jesus’ sacrifice. As far as I can see the only way to say that there is no contradiction is simply to eliminate the initial axiom that equates many to most, and accept the fact that it is simply a qualitative expression relative to God’s wish for universal salvation.

The bottom line of all my points is simply to show that we are not to know if a majority or minority of people will go to hell. Jesus made it clear what the alternatives are, He also made it clear that they are quite real, He made it clear that there will not be universal salvation, and finally He made it clear which is the Way that we must follow. The rest is up to us to accept Him or not.
 
=TimothyH;8030162]Nowhere does it say that God is fair, or that he has to be. He can let sinners live and the righteous die if he wants. That’s God’s perogative. He took my 4 1/2 year old daughter while murderers and rapists live. How is that fair?
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Just because judgment is not applied to an individual but to a group, doesn’t mean it is not judging others. Yes, the reality is that some people may not go to Heaven. I totally agree with you. But that doesn’t mean that we can assume anything about any group of people. Doing so misses the entire point of Jesus discourse, that we are not to judge at all, and are to focus on ourselves instead, that we are to judge ourselves and look to your own salvation, not to presume anything about any group or individual. That was Jesus point, not the relative ease or difficulty with which we achieve salvation.
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-Tim-
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Hi Tim,

Would you equate being “fair” with bing “Just.” ?

**Job.34: 12 **"Of a truth, God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice.

Ezra.9: 15 “O LORD the God of Israel, thou art just, for we are left a remnant that has escaped, as at this day. Behold, we are before thee in our guilt, for none can stand before thee because of this.”

**Isa.5: 16 **“But the LORD of hosts is exalted in justice, and the Holy God shows himself holy in righteousness”

Isa.30: 18 “Therefore the LORD waits to be gracious to you; therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the LORD is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him.”

GOD CAN BE DESCRIBED AS “ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED”

Therefore God is because God MUST EB Both fair and just. Confussion may exist beacuse God’s thoughts and understanding are beyond human comprehension.🙂

God Bless you,
Pat
 
‘Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it: What art thou making? If clay should dare to say to the potter, Why hast thou formed me thus? the potter ought to answer: Be silent: it is not your business to inquire what I do, but to obey and to receive whatever form I please to give you.’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘St. John Chrysostom said: Silentium, quod lutem prabet figulo, idem ipse prabe conditori tuo. Oh, what a sentence! He would say, “As the clay is silent in the hands of the potter, so do you be silent in the hands of your Creator.” The clay remains silent whether the potter forms it into a vessel of honor or of ignominy, whether he breaks it or flings it among the rubbish; it is content to be cast aside or to be placed in an art gallery. Impress this lesson on your memory.’

St. Paul of the Cross

‘But you will say to me, Why does he still make us responsible? who is able to go against his purpose? But, O man, who are you, to make answer against God? May the thing which is made say to him who made it, Why did you make me so? Or has not the potter the right to make out of one part of his earth a vessel for honour, and out of another a vessel for shame? What if God, desiring to let his wrath and his power be seen, for a long time put up with the vessels of wrath which were ready for destruction. . .’

Romans 9:19-22

‘This thought of yours is perverse: as if the clay should think against the potter, and the work should say to the maker thereof: Thou madest me not: or the thing framed should say to him that fashioned it: Thou understandest not.’

Isaiah 29: 16
 
Why is it that the saints have no problem understanding when Jesus said FEW that He meant FEW and MANY others that post here that are not saints never can understand that?

Tell me–would you rather bet your soul on the many who are not saints or the FEW that are saints when it comes to this question?

“work out your salvation with fear and trembling”. St.Paul knew because the Holy Spirit inspired him that when only FEW are saved that one should “work out his salvation with fear and trembling”.
 
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