How narrow is the narrow gate?

[centurionguard]

IMPLYING… NO

Proclaiming as TRUE …YES

God Bless,
Pat

Read the Collected Works Saint John of the Cross

The Ascent Of mount Carmel

The Dark Night

The Spiritual Canticle

The Living Flame Of Love

(“How narrow is the Gate”)

As much as it takes to completely mortify all imperfect senses of the human flesh and completely empty the soul so that God can completely fill it of Himself with Perfection.

Which means I’ll be doing a lot of time in Purgatory.

 

[PJM]

=hazcompat;8034311]the wide gate is purgatory, the narrow straight to heaven.

peace

NO dear friend, your lacking a correct understanding:

READ for example Heb. 6: 4-8 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. **But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. **

And: “ **Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." **

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Purgatory is ONLY a midway point to HEAVEN, necessary because all that WILL get to heaven MUST first be PERFECTED [which is what purgatory does].

**Rev. 21: 27 **“But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

**Matt.5: 48 **“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

**Heb. 2: 10 **For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

God Bless you and tahnks for your participation.

Pat

 

[Norminha]

The Mother of the Redeemer teaches us to enter through the narrow gate. For she, along with a few followers, walked their talk to the end at Golgota. There is no other way!!!

 

[Poor_Soul]

NO dear friend, your lacking a correct understanding:

READ for example Heb. 6: 4-8 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. **But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. **

And: “ **Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." **

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Purgatory is ONLY a midway point to HEAVEN, necessary because all that WILL get to heaven MUST first be PERFECTED [which is what purgatory does].

**Rev. 21: 27 **“But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

**Matt.5: 48 **“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

**Heb. 2: 10 **For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

God Bless you and tahnks for your participation.

Pat

You can also refute the notion that the wide gate is Purgatory since Purgatory is not a place of destruction but rather is a place of construction.

The sad reality is few are saved but not because of God but because they freely choose to be damned.

Here is a sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice about this subject.

olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

“THE SOULS GOING TO HELL TODAY ARE LIKE SNOWFLAKES IN A SNOWSTORM”
-‘A message from Our Lady of Sorrow’

 

[Poor_Soul]

Which means I’ll be doing a lot of time in Purgatory.

With that kind of attitude you will be. God in His infinite mercy has given us devotions, works of mercy that we can perform, and the greatest of all the Holy Mass in order to escape Hell, Purgatory, and to live a virtuous life so we can join Him in Heaven.

As one saint (could have been a venerable, or a blessed) saw in a vision; Christ was sitting next to a table full of precious jewels and treasures and he said that these represented the indulgences that He freely gives to those who ask for them and yet very few ever come to take their fill.

 

[Cristiano]

Nowhere does it say that God is fair, or that he has to be. He can let sinners live and the righteous die if he wants. That’s God’s perogative. He took my 4 1/2 year old daughter while murderers and rapists live. How is that fair?

Just because judgment is not applied to an individual but to a group, doesn’t mean it is not judging others. Yes, the reality is that some people may not go to Heaven. I totally agree with you. But that doesn’t mean that we can assume anything about any group of people. Doing so misses the entire point of Jesus discourse, that we are not to judge at all, and are to focus on ourselves instead, that we are to judge ourselves and look to your own salvation, not to presume anything about any group or individual. That was Jesus point, not the relative ease or difficulty with which we achieve salvation.

-Tim-

Hi Tim,

Would you equate being “fair” with bing “Just.” ?

**Job.34: 12 **"Of a truth, God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice.

Ezra.9: 15 “O LORD the God of Israel, thou art just, for we are left a remnant that has escaped, as at this day. Behold, we are before thee in our guilt, for none can stand before thee because of this.”

**Isa.5: 16 **“But the LORD of hosts is exalted in justice, and the Holy God shows himself holy in righteousness”

Isa.30: 18 “Therefore the LORD waits to be gracious to you; therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the LORD is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him.”

GOD CAN BE DESCRIBED AS “ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED”

Therefore God is because God MUST EB Both fair and just. Confussion may exist beacuse God’s thoughts and understanding are beyond human comprehension.

God Bless you,
Pat

Tim I think that PJM is making a valid point. When we think of fairness from God we expect it at a local level, as in here an now. We tend to forget that out life is eternal and that God’s fairness is real but as PJM said it can be very difficult for us to accept it because of the constraints that we usually choose to associate to it. Probably things do not look fair to you but they might be fair to the criminal that still has to suffer and to struggle with evil and to a young daughter that does not have to struggle with evil anymore. I do not know the details of God’s plan I just have to trust in Him because of my limited intelligence and knowledge.

 

[PJM]

=Poor Soul;8034419]You can also refute the notion that the wide gate is Purgatory since Purgatory is not a place of destruction but rather is a place of construction.

The sad reality is few are saved but not because of God but because they freely choose to be damned.

Here is a sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice about this subject.

olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

“THE SOULS GOING TO HELL TODAY ARE LIKE SNOWFLAKES IN A SNOWSTORM”
-‘A message from Our Lady of Sorrow’

EXTREMELY WELL ARTICULATED:thumbsup:

THANK YOU,

GOD BLESS,
PAT

 

[hazcompat]

NO dear friend, your lacking a correct understanding:

READ for example Heb. 6: 4-8 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. **But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. **

And: “ **Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." **

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Purgatory is ONLY a midway point to HEAVEN, necessary because all that WILL get to heaven MUST first be PERFECTED [which is what purgatory does].

**Rev. 21: 27 **“But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

**Matt.5: 48 **“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

**Heb. 2: 10 **For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

God Bless you and tahnks for your participation.

Pat

will most of us go through purgatory, or the narrow gate?

peace

 

[Cristiano]

EXTREMELY WELL ARTICULATED:thumbsup:

THANK YOU,

GOD BLESS,
PAT

I agree with the point of how we have to look at salvation and damnation but I beg to disagree if we use the word “few” to prove that just a small minority of souls is saved, and this is why (copy paste from a previous thread about the homily):

I am going to repeat a couple of points that I keep making about this alleged revelation. First of all the homily is based on a private revelation and so it cannot be considered to add any new information to the public revelation. Second, private revelations are about Truth and not about numerical accuracy, I hope that people learned that lesson from reading the Bible. Third, I would encourage people to do a back of the envelope calculation too see how realistic the number of people that died at that historical time in one day. I did it and posted the comments in one of the past threads about this homily. Fourth the number refers to one day and I cannot see how people can use that specific day as representative of an average. The idea of using the numbers from an alleged private revelation really goes against the way that the Church follows to address inspired information. Just look at the dates when these people lived: St. Leonard 1690, St. Vincent Ferrer 1410, St. Bernard 1140. Don’t you believe that some of the stories propagated at the time were more myths then accurate? Do you really think that the death rate was 33,000 people/hour at that time? That would imply that during the whole year 1140 AD approximately 290 million people died. How many people did live on hearth at that time? The population growth rate is hyper-exponential and so I seriously doubt that we even had 290 million people on hearth at that time! It is even worse if you look at the 60,000 from all the world that were receiving judgment, that would give more than half billion people living at the same time in a unspecified year between1140 AD and 1690 AD. Are we kidding?

 

[hazcompat]

Matthew 12:32 And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next

Is there forgiveness in the next?

the narrow gate is The Way of Christ!

peace

 

[Poor_Soul]

Originally Posted by Cristiano
I am going to repeat a couple of points that I keep making about this alleged revelation. First of all the homily is based on a private revelation and so it cannot be considered to add any new information to the public revelation. Second, private revelations are about Truth and not about numerical accuracy, I hope that people learned that lesson from reading the Bible. Third, I would encourage people to do a back of the envelope calculation too see how realistic the number of people that died at that historical time in one day. I did it and posted the comments in one of the past threads about this homily. Fourth the number refers to one day and I cannot see how people can use that specific day as representative of an average. The idea of using the numbers from an alleged private revelation really goes against the way that the Church follows to address inspired information. Just look at the dates when these people lived: St. Leonard 1690, St. Vincent Ferrer 1410, St. Bernard 1140. Don’t you believe that some of the stories propagated at the time were more myths then accurate? Do you really think that the death rate was 33,000 people/hour at that time? That would imply that during the whole year 1140 AD approximately 290 million people died. How many people did live on hearth at that time? The population growth rate is hyper-exponential and so I seriously doubt that we even had 290 million people on hearth at that time! It is even worse if you look at the 60,000 from all the world that were receiving judgment, that would give more than half billion people living at the same time in a unspecified year between1140 AD and 1690 AD. Are we kidding?

Saint Leonard was not just going off of private revelatioin but also the tradition of other saints and Doctors of the Church.

The following narrative from Saint Vincent Ferrer will show you what you may think about it. He relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, “Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, thirty-three thousand people also died. Out of this number, Bernard and myself went up to heaven without delay, three went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell.”

Where in this statement are you getting the impression that they are saying that thirty three thousand people is the average death rate per hour or even per day? What I read from this is that the archdeacon is telling us that there just so happened to be thirty three thousand people being judged the same time him and Saint Bernard were being judged and that out of the multitude only him and Bernard went straight to heaven. The number listed isn’t an average of deaths per hour or even per day but rather a sobering point to stress that less than 1.7% of the thirty three thousand that died (this includes the three that made it to Purgatory) were saved.

Anyone that takes the thirty three thousand deaths as an average has taken the statment out of context and unfortunately has wasted all that time calculating for no reason.

I’m sticking with the saints on this one.

 

[Cristiano]

Saint Leonard was not just going off of private revelatioin but also the tradition of other saints and Doctors of the Church.

Where in this statement are you getting the impression that they are saying that thirty three thousand people is the average death rate per hour or even per day? What I read from this is that the archdeacon is telling us that there just so happened to be thirty three thousand people being judged the same time him and Saint Bernard were being judged and that out of the multitude only him and Bernard went straight to heaven. The number listed isn’t an average of deaths per hour or even per day but rather a sobering point to stress that less than 1.7% of the thirty three thousand that died (this includes the three that made it to Purgatory) were saved.

Anyone that takes the thirty three thousand deaths as an average has taken the statment out of context and unfortunately has wasted all that time calculating for no reason.

I’m sticking with the saints on this one.

First the sermon is not a private revelation authorized by the Church but it simply makes reference to an alleged private revelation. Do you know how the Church treats alleged private revelations that are reported only from a second source?

As you said we must take things in context and we must make sure that they do not go against the Teachings of the Church. I think that looking at visions with that approach is the equivalent of sola scriptura for the Bible and also trying to predict the future. I think that both go against the Teachings of the Church.

I think that it is reasonably to assume that if in history we had such a sudden increase in death rate were so many people died in such a short time we would have heard it through other references and not simply through the visions of a Saint. Church documents at that time were also a reflection of historical events and I am quite suspicious that something like that was not reported. Why do you waste time looking at percentages if you say that numbers do not really matter?

Finally the context of the alleged private revelation is not the context of the sermon and it looks like people do not want to understand that. The sermon used the alleged private revelation to make a point. Now people use the sermon and the alleged revelation to make another point.

I have the impression that a lot of people want to predict the future of salvation instead of accepting the fact that we are not to know the details of that mystery. I think that a good blog that appears to be quite aligned with the sermon is the one just published by Msgr. Pope.

There Comes a Day When Our “No” becomes Permanent: On the Mystery of Iniquity and the Stubbornness of the Stiff-Necked

 

[PJM]

=hazcompat;8038978]will most of us go through purgatory, or the narrow gate?

peace

MOST BUT not all will go through Purgatory.

That is why the Church recommends that we pray daily for the “poor souls.” The more we pray the sooner they get to BE with God.

PRAY also for special grace of final perseverance and “A Happy death.”

Receiving the “Last Rites” [the Seventh Sacrament] has the same effects on our souls as does the Sacrament of baptism.

All sin and ALL pay-back due to our sins are forgiven and thus we have been made “PERFECT” until or unless we sin again before we die. This is a “Ticket to Heaven!”

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Cristiano]

MOST BUT not all will go through Purgatory.

That is why the Church recommends that we pray daily for the “poor souls.” The more we pray the sooner they get to BE with God.

PRAY also for special grace of final perseverance and “A Happy death.”

Receiving the “Last Rites” [the Seventh Sacrament] has the same effects on our souls as does the Sacrament of baptism.

All sin and ALL pay-back due to our sins are forgiven and thus we have been made “PERFECT” until or unless we sin again before we die. This is a “Ticket to Heaven!”

God Bless you,
Pat

I think that your point summarizes in a very simple way what are to do. We will never emphasize enough the need and obligation to pray for the souls of purgatory.

 

[PJM]

=Cristiano;8039132]I agree with the point of how we have to look at salvation and damnation but I beg to disagree if we use the word “few” to prove that just a small minority of souls is saved, and this is why (copy paste from a previous thread about the homily):

Here is the verse from the DR bible and The Vulgate.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

14 Multi enim sunt vocati, pauci vero electi

I then searched Haydocks Commentary: ONLY to discover it is not explianed. One assumes because of the clairity of the teaching?

Next I searched Matt. Henry’s Commentary:

“Take him away. Those that walk unworthy of Christianity, forfeit all the happiness they presumptuously claimed. Our Saviour here passes out of the parable into that which it teaches. Hypocrites go by the light of the gospel itself down to utter darkness. Many are called to the wedding-feast, that is, to salvation, but few have the wedding-garment, the righteousness of Christ, the sanctification of the Spirit. Then let us examine ourselves whether we are in the faith, and seek to be approved by the King.”

To assume any other position is IMO foolish. Look around and see how many prople you know who you think are living lives worthy of merit to heaven. And how many seem NOT TO BE.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Cristiano]

Here is the verse from the DR bible and The Vulgate.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

14 Multi enim sunt vocati, pauci vero electi

I then searched Haydocks Commentary: ONLY to discover it is not explianed. One assumes because of the clairity of the teaching?

Next I searched Matt. Henry’s Commentary:

“Take him away. Those that walk unworthy of Christianity, forfeit all the happiness they presumptuously claimed. Our Saviour here passes out of the parable into that which it teaches. Hypocrites go by the light of the gospel itself down to utter darkness. Many are called to the wedding-feast, that is, to salvation, but few have the wedding-garment, the righteousness of Christ, the sanctification of the Spirit. Then let us examine ourselves whether we are in the faith, and seek to be approved by the King.”

To assume any other position is IMO foolish. Look around and see how many prople you know who you think are living lives worthy of merit to heaven. And how many seem NOT TO BE.

God Bless,
Pat

Fine, then how do you explain the pro-multis mandated by the Council of Trent in regard to the fruits of Jesus’ sacrifice?

I also know that no-one merits heaven, and I am not going to judge the salvation of their souls. I firmly believe that we are saved by grace and that we cannot merit heaven, we will always be unworthy.

 

[PJM]

=Cristiano;8042975]Fine, then how do you explain the pro-multis mandated by the Council of Trent in regard to the fruits of Jesus’ sacrifice?

I also know that no-one merits heaven, and I am not going to judge the salvation of their souls. I firmly believe that we are saved by grace and that we cannot merit heaven, we will always be unworthy.

Fried I TRULY desire to respond to your legitment question; but blame on my age; I’m not exactly clear on what your asking me to do for you. If you’d care to ask it a different way; I’ll do my best to supply an answer. Also where is this in the TRENT documents so I can look it up?

Oh, and when yo reply remind me to look at this post again so I can respond to your issues of “meriting heaven.”

I’m kinda pooped tonight.

May God continue to Bless you abundantly,
Pat

 

[georgemiller]

Judge behavior only not the eternal destination of individual or groups of individuals. I believe that a major reason Jesus doesn’t want us to judge souls is because there is just too much to consider both known and unknown about the life of souls. george miller, facebook.

 

[Cristiano]

Fried I TRULY desire to respond to your legitment question; but blame on my age; I’m not exactly clear on what your asking me to do for you. If you’d care to ask it a different way; I’ll do my best to supply an answer. Also where is this in the TRENT documents so I can look it up?

Oh, and when yo reply remind me to look at this post again so I can respond to your issues of “meriting heaven.”

I’m kinda pooped tonight.

May God continue to Bless you abundantly,
Pat

I think that we are spending too much energy on something that is not really critical. I will look up the document from Trent and I will send it to you. I think that we really believe and agree in what the fundamental message is: “If you do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and if you do not accept his graces and commandments you will go to hell even if He really wants you in heaven”. I really enjoy conversing with you and I hope that you will have a good and restful night.
May God bless you.

 

[raymond_king]

** [13]** *"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. *
[14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"

–The Gospel according to Matthew, Chapter 7 (Douay-Rheims Bible)

How narrow is this gate?

Is Christ implying that more people got to Hell than Heaven?

What are these verses saying?

I learned like this: if you don’t try to exercise you spiritual judgment, your mind and your heart upon spiritual matters you might not be strong enough (have the love) to see and enter the kingdom of God. Enter via the Beautiful Gate of true faith. true -the holy spirit-.
Now this is hard to realize. that faith is God in us. this is difficult to even think of , that we truly have the trinity of persons speaking in us. this is quite a narrow thought indeed. but by his goodness we can eventuallly become convinced of this Truth. It takes time:it takes the joyful time. Ray