how not to be poor

[rtconstant]

Our corporate structure is reflective of the level of freedom we have left in America. to destroy their right to opperate in a manner they see fit (and which does not harm others)is an attack on freedom. An attack on freedom is an attack on America.

So to you America is not a philosophical ideal with goals of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for all of its citizens. It is simply a business proposition. That is a very sad, and limited view of our nation.

If you acknowledge the failure of socialistic policies in foriegn countries, why would you want to force those policies on us?

Well it would depend on the policy in question. But back to the subject at hand, you already accept that we need to socialize some aspects of our economy and business practices. So if having any social policy is anti-American then America isn’t American. Which is absurd.

 

[fultonfish]

Nope. I was pointing out that many Americans are satisfied with the level of success they have achieved working an 8 hour day. The point isn’t that everyone should work uncompensated overtime, the point was that if one is not satisfied with their current wage, uncompensated overtime can be an effective way of getting noticed for promotions.

I never met any successful people who worked only 8 hours a day. Nothing to do with “uncompensated overtime”. They worked as many hours as it took to get the job done. If the employer paid o/t,m great. But if not, they just worked as many hours as it took.

Too many people want a lot of stuff, benefits, etc, and if the job is through a temp agency, they don’t want the job. You can get the benefits through the agency and you can change agencies.

Some people are just looking for an excuse to get angry.

It’s as much the attitude as it is the work performance.

There was this one person who always said they didn’t see why they had to be nice to people. They didn’t get very far. People don’t like being around them.

 

[aspawloski4th]

What! a Government program failing? Who would have thought.

Although education is only worth what you put into it. Maybe our media should give accademic achievers the same attention they give athletes.

When the material being taught is below grade level, when the teacher could care less, and you are eing conastantly bullied and the school people in power could care less. I don’t think what you put in to it matters one idoda. And thats typical public school in urban areas. I sugest no one here trys debating me on education. Iv’e seen it ALL from the inside out and most of you likely have not.

 

[royal_archer]

Or, if you just want to get the raise straight away, you can take a second job in the evenings - it’s the exact same amount of extra work, and you don’t have to wait for anyone to notice you.

but working two jobs does not normally lead to a promotion. That is unless you are working one job hile you are working part time at another company to try to get your foot in the door.

The reality is that there are lots of entry level jobs out there where people can get in them easily but they don’t pay well. If the job is sufficient to live on, thenyou don’t have to worry about being poor. However, if that job is not sustainable, you need to work you way out of that job to a better job. Part of that is proving you can be counted on and are a dedicated worker. The uncomp over time helps to prove that, Assuming you are an above average employee the other 40 per week.

 

[royal_archer]

If you want to not be poor, pray all the time.

Keep a rosary in your hands all day and also when you go to bed. And say the rosary when you fall asleep and continue praying the rosary as soon as you open your eyes.

Add extra mysteries.

Visit the prayer section here at CAF and pray for all the people who are having crises in their lives.

You will end up rich and happy.

I used to have people complain to me about the lousy hours and benefits and money and the stuff they turned down was more than I was making. It was difficult for me to be sympathetic, but I would urge them to take the job and do it to the best of their ability because it was better than sitting around the house doing nothing and they would just get angry with me.

Focus on your prayer life. Make Jesus the whole entire focus of your life. Tell Jesus you are putting your life in His Hands. Ask Mary, His Mother, to get Him to help you.

There was an outofwork actor who prayed and prayed and prayed including to St. Jude and one day got a job acting the part of St. Thaddeus, which he found out was

That is a well stated addition to what I have been saying.

To mary them up: accept God’s help and then play the hand you are dealt to the best of your ability. If you will notice most of the miracles in the bible require some action on the part of us humans in order to facilitate the miracle.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I never met any successful people who worked only 8 hours a day. Nothing to do with “uncompensated overtime”. They worked as many hours as it took to get the job done. If the employer paid o/t,m great. But if not, they just worked as many hours as it took.
And I never saw a family where the kids were parented well when parents worked over time on a constant basis. We designed the 8 hour work day here for a reason and a good one so parents would have time for their children. If my dad had bee working 12 hour instead of 8 hour work days mark my word all 8 of us Pawloski kids would be a blieght on this earth for lack of punishment when we were out of line. a 5’2’’ woman (mom) cant strike fear in a disobediant child the way a 6"3" man can. All of you who think we should work more than 8 hour days will have no ground for complaining whatsoever when juvinile delinquency gets worse after you have gottten rid of the 8 hour work day.

 

[royal_archer]

So to you America is not a philosophical ideal with goals of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for all of its citizens. It is simply a business proposition. That is a very sad, and limited view of our nation…

What part of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is fulfilled for the person who is having their liberties taken away so that material goods can be given to someone who did not earn them?

Well it would depend on the policy in question. But back to the subject at hand, you already accept that we need to socialize some aspects of our economy and business practices. So if having any social policy is anti-American then America isn’t American. Which is absurd.

The purpose of government is to protect the rights of individual citizens. Any law that violates one human’s rights for the pleasure of another is wrong.

 

[royal_archer]

I never met any successful people who worked only 8 hours a day. Nothing to do with “uncompensated overtime”. They worked as many hours as it took to get the job done. If the employer paid o/t,m great. But if not, they just worked as many hours as it took.

Too many people want a lot of stuff, benefits, etc, and if the job is through a temp agency, they don’t want the job. You can get the benefits through the agency and you can change agencies.

Some people are just looking for an excuse to get angry.

It’s as much the attitude as it is the work performance.

There was this one person who always said they didn’t see why they had to be nice to people. They didn’t get very far. People don’t like being around them.

I have had great luck with temporary agencies. I show up, fill out the application, and the next day I am working. I have done a lot of odd jobs that I would have never had thought to apply for and have gained a very diverse set of experiences that have really helped me out. Sort of like the movie Yes man with Jim Carry. Mid way through the movie he starts accepting lots of odd opportunities and in the end you see how they help him in the long run. By the way, The last temp job I had turned into a permanent job that really kicked off my current carreer. (I got that temp job because of experience I had doing volunteer work) Sometimes you have to play out the hand you are dealt instead of constantly folding.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Nope. I was pointing out that many Americans are satisfied with the level of success they have achieved working an 8 hour day. The point isn’t that everyone should work uncompensated overtime, the point was that if one is not satisfied with their current wage, uncompensated overtime can be an effective way of getting noticed for promotions.

Boy are you bought and paid for!. Thats one nothing but tired and cranky. You don not live in the real world obviously. The only people I know that moved up did it through brown nosing. Getting payed for doing things less that savory. Just before me and my wife got married she was fired as a part of a set uo from a giant local retail chain. The snotty kids that set it up got rewarded with a huge promotion. This 2009 not 1959. People dont get rewarded for good work anymore, they get rewared for being on the correct side of office politics, and not having a personal life. Sorry charly I value my personal life very much.

 

[royal_archer]

When the material being taught is below grade level, when the teacher could care less, and you are eing conastantly bullied and the school people in power could care less. I don’t think what you put in to it matters one idoda. And thats typical public school in urban areas. I sugest no one here trys debating me on education. Iv’e seen it ALL from the inside out and most of you likely have not.

As per the thread topic:
I did guest teach in an inner city school. What I told them was if they stay in school and get a diploma they will meet the qualifications for most entry level jobs with that income they can get into a community college and work their way up from their. If not, they could join the military. Unfortunatley there are many politicians and community organizers who deal with these kids closely and convince them that they have no chance because some one else is keeping them down. Then they convince them that the only hope they have is the charity that these politicians and organizers will bring them.

What you are saying is very simmilar to an arguement I had with one of my sons. He complained he was bored in school. I took the opportunity to suggest he work ahead. He argued that he couldn’t do it unless someone taught him. I told him about a math discipline that he should be learning in a year or two (trig) and told him to learn it (there was some incentive involved but I can’t remember what). He argued he couldn’t learn it on his own and we argued about it for about half an hour. An hour later I checked in on him and he had looked it up on the net and figured it out.

If people can break through that wall of doubt then a world of opportunities will open for them. Even if the teachers are bad, they still have text books and libraries. All of the minimum resources are provided to give children the skills they need.

Getting off topic:
Do you realy want government doing to industry what it has done to the schools?

 

[royal_archer]

fultonfish;5745271:

I never met any successful people who worked only 8 hours a day. Nothing to do with “uncompensated overtime”. They worked as many hours as it took to get the job done. If the employer paid o/t,m great. But if not, they just worked as many hours as it took.
And I never saw a family where the kids were parented well when parents worked over time on a constant basis. We designed the 8 hour work day here for a reason and a good one so parents would have time for their children. If my dad had bee working 12 hour instead of 8 hour work days mark my word all 8 of us Pawloski kids would be a blieght on this earth for lack of punishment when we were out of line. a 5’2’’ woman (mom) cant strike fear in a disobediant child the way a 6"3" man can. All of you who think we should work more than 8 hour days will have no ground for complaining whatsoever when juvinile delinquency gets worse after you have gottten rid of the 8 hour work day.

Who said 12 hours a day?

Why are people having kids prior to being financially secure enough to do so?

Are fathers there to strike fear in their kids?

 

[royal_archer]

Boy are you bought and paid for!. Thats one nothing but tired and cranky. You don not live in the real world obviously. The only people I know that moved up did it through brown nosing. Getting payed for doing things less that savory. Just before me and my wife got married she was fired as a part of a set uo from a giant local retail chain. The snotty kids that set it up got rewarded with a huge promotion. This 2009 not 1959. People dont get rewarded for good work anymore, they get rewared for being on the correct side of office politics, and not having a personal life. Sorry charly I value my personal life very much.

I can only speak to what I have seen in the several companies I have worked for. As for unsavory (assuming you do not mean immoral) I have always been the one to take the tasks no one else wanted. You may be able to call that brown nosing but it did get me recognized as the go to guy. being the go to guy got me recognized. And yes office “politics” did play into it. When they needed someone they could trust to stick with the work and see it through they gave it to me. That opened doors and got me big promotions. It wasn’t because they did or didn’t like me personally, it was because they knew that putting me on tasks would make them look good and would help their carreers.

Besides the lack of instant gratification, is there any reason not to work as best you can?

 

[aspawloski4th]

As per the thread topic:
I did guest teach in an inner city school. What I told them was if they stay in school and get a diploma they will meet the qualifications for most entry level jobs with that income they can get into a community college and work their way up from their. If not, they could join the military. Unfortunatley there are many politicians and community organizers who deal with these kids closely and convince them that they have no chance because some one else is keeping them down. Then they convince them that the only hope they have is the charity that these politicians and organizers will bring them.

What you are saying is very simmilar to an arguement I had with one of my sons. He complained he was bored in school. I took the opportunity to suggest he work ahead. He argued that he couldn’t do it unless someone taught him. I told him about a math discipline that he should be learning in a year or two (trig) and told him to learn it (there was some incentive involved but I can’t remember what). He argued he couldn’t learn it on his own and we argued about it for about half an hour. An hour later I checked in on him and he had looked it up on the net and figured it out.

If people can break through that wall of doubt then a world of opportunities will open for them. Even if the teachers are bad, they still have text books and libraries. All of the minimum resources are provided to give children the skills they need.

Getting off topic:
Do you realy want government doing to industry what it has done to the schools?

I’ll be glad to answer that question. First I’ll preface that schools are run in most places by it’s own set of people in governemnt, ie school boards , superintendent, etc. Who don’t really answer to anyone for the most part. It’s a more direct control from the citizens so to say. Sounds like to me the American people are the problem. People say even when their kids causes big trouble, you are not going to punish my kid!. I say bring back corporal punishment and a kid prooved to be bullying anyone is expelled and goes to juvinile detention for a full school year minimum. If my dad caught any of us bullying we were backhanded upside the head
As for inustry. With every compny being rapant with office politics maybe a little meddling by the governemt will get these corporate idiots off their high horse and put them in their place. When the people get governemnt out of business we will have a group of busniss people interested in doing what they are supposed to do rather than the office politics of the day. Office politics should be illegal.

 

[royal_archer]

I’ll be glad to answer that question. First I’ll preface that schools are run in most places by it’s own set of people in governemnt, ie school boards , superintendent, etc. Who don’t really answer to anyone for the most part. It’s a more direct control from the citizens so to say. Sounds like to me the American people are the problem. People say even when their kids causes big trouble, you are not going to punish my kid!. I say bring back corporal punishment and a kid prooved to be bullying anyone is expelled and goes to juvinile detention for a full school year minimum. If my dad caught any of us bullying we were backhanded upside the head .

Yes, the purpose of government is to protect individuals so I concur with the government enforcing the laws in the schools and protecting children. Maybe if the government stopped wasting so much time with micromanaging the ecconomy, they could start doing that.

As for inustry. With every compny being rapant with office politics maybe a little meddling by the governemt will get these corporate idiots off their high horse and put them in their place. When the people get governemnt out of business we will have a group of busniss people interested in doing what they are supposed to do rather than the office politics of the day. Office politics should be illegal.

Are you implying that as a manager I should not have a right to promote the employee that I feel is most qualified?

How about we defer talk about banning office politics until we rid the government of politics?

 

[aspawloski4th]

I can only speak to what I have seen in the several companies I have worked for. As for unsavory (assuming you do not mean immoral) I have always been the one to take the tasks no one else wanted. You may be able to call that brown nosing but it did get me recognized as the go to guy. being the go to guy got me recognized. And yes office “politics” did play into it. When they needed someone they could trust to stick with the work and see it through they gave it to me. That opened doors and got me big promotions. It wasn’t because they did or didn’t like me personally, it was because they knew that putting me on tasks would make them look good and would help their carreers.

Besides the lack of instant gratification, is there any reason not to work as best you can?

If you ask my previous employers (bosses) about how I work. I imagne you would be told in lots of different ways that I am actually an overachiever and a perfectionest. with the two car dealership I worked for as a lot attendent, you could tell immediately between the job I did and someone else had done with out batting an eye. A manager told me that There’s a certain touch I put on my work that makes it easy to tell when I did that job. Did that get me any promotions? Uh uh. Several years later I got fired by a different manager in that company for being too rountine and too anisocial. This comapny is owned by A Calvinest Dutchman and Catholics have long been not liked by those type around where I live. If hard work got one better jobs and more money, Id be rich by now, but I’m poor. I had to go to a free clinic yesterday to have a tooth pulled. I’ll start working hard when it gets me something. I don’t go to work because I like it, I go because I have to.

 

[pathia]

Our corporate structure is reflective of the level of freedom we have left in America. to destroy their right to opperate in a manner they see fit (and which does not harm others)is an attack on freedom. An attack on freedom is an attack on America.

If you acknowledge the failure of socialistic policies in foriegn countries, why would you want to force those policies on us?

I work at a company, the executive managers have gotten raises 5 years in a row, for doing nothing but managing. When we ask why we haven’t gotten any raises, they said the contract didn’t perform well enough, yet we surpassed all SLA’s by a huge amount, we are the highest rated satisfaction rate of any contract at work. Yet we do not get raises, not even cost of living raises, but the executive managers get raises and bonuses every year, because they said so to themselves and wrote it into their own contracts that they themselves wrote.

Exactly how is this fair, and how does it inspire a worker to do well? Especially when it’s called ‘pay per performance’ yet no matter how great you perform, you never get a raise, but watch some paper pusher get raise after raise after raise? While in return we get paycuts, furloughs and benefit cuts.

That is how I view american corporate culture. Keep it all for yourself at the top, at the expense of everyone else.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Yes, the purpose of government is to protect individuals so I concur with the government enforcing the laws in the schools and protecting children. Maybe if the government stopped wasting so much time with micromanaging the ecconomy, they could start doing that.

Are you implying that as a manager I should not have a right to promote the employee that I feel is most qualified?

How about we defer talk about banning office politics until we rid the government of politics?

I’m going to tell you about a buiness from years back that was utterly sucessfull, here in Grand Rapids. It was a auto body shop that had the simple name of Commercial Auto painting. Don’t let that fool you they did the full gammit of autobody work on cars back in the day. They were high volume because business grew on account that people knew when they brought a car there to be worked on the owner did take money for the work done till he inspected it and knew what was leaving his shop was perfect, not just good, but with absolutley no imperfections whatsoever. Everyone had a specific job they did and only that job, and got well payed for it, because the owner felt good inside when he rwarded for good work. Back in the 1930’s had had a frame straightner technician that drove to work everyday frrom a small town about 60 miles north of Grand Rapids where this bodyshop was. Framestraightning was new back in those days and they guy did such a good job at it the owner made sure it was worth his while to drive from so far away to work every day. ll disagreements with workers and foremen were to be handled in a quick manner with the owner, and anything even hinting at office politics was strictly forbidden. Because office politics meant someone would be treated unfailry and office politcs would make the shop operation inefficient. The owner thought unfairness to employees is a sin that would get a business owner or manager the fires of Hell no questions asked. That owner was a preVatican II minded type Catholic, and helped build one of the larger parishes here in Grtand Rapids. Oh yes his work week for his workers was 8 to 5 monday thru friday. Someone might work and hour or two of overtime once in a months time, but that was a rarity. This body shop was the only body shop with in 50 miles in any direction qualified to work on Packard cars. While being an autobody shop owner, he did so well he was living the life style of a big city car dealership owner. When his son took over in the early 1970’s it all went in to the toilet because he ws more a typical bisiness owner. The good workers left because of office politics, they were replaced with cheap peaaple, and the downward spiral continued till it clsed August of 1978. See bussineses can do fine without the fanny kissing you imply needs to be in business. So the answer to your first question, in most times of the past I would say no, but things have gotten so bad I have to say yes. That body shop by the way., if it were still around, I’d be inline to inherit it. If my dad would have gotten it there would be no office politics and it would have been so efficiently run that Hitler would be at awe. If it got into my hands office politics would be strictly forbidden and I’d run it very efficiently too. American business today is a joke, it’s a welfare program for brown nosers and those who do the real work are left out in the cold. If industry gets run by governemnt think of it as a similer punishment from God as to when Israel was carried off to Babylon.

 

[royal_archer]

If you ask my previous employers (bosses) about how I work. I imagne you would be told in lots of different ways that I am actually an overachiever and a perfectionest. with the two car dealership I worked for as a lot attendent, you could tell immediately between the job I did and someone else had done with out batting an eye. A manager told me that There’s a certain touch I put on my work that makes it easy to tell when I did that job. Did that get me any promotions? Uh uh. Several years later I got fired by a different manager in that company for being too rountine and too anisocial. This comapny is owned by A Calvinest Dutchman and Catholics have long been not liked by those type around where I live. If hard work got one better jobs and more money, Id be rich by now, but I’m poor. I had to go to a free clinic yesterday to have a tooth pulled. I’ll start working hard when it gets me something. I don’t go to work because I like it, I go because I have to.

Did you ever think that you got as far as you could as a lot attendant? What were you working towards? After the cars were arranged did you help others out?

Waiting for the reward prior to putting in the effort is not a formula for success.

 

[royal_archer]

I work at a company, the executive managers have gotten raises 5 years in a row, for doing nothing but managing. When we ask why we haven’t gotten any raises, they said the contract didn’t perform well enough, yet we surpassed all SLA’s by a huge amount, we are the highest rated satisfaction rate of any contract at work. Yet we do not get raises, not even cost of living raises, but the executive managers get raises and bonuses every year, because they said so to themselves and wrote it into their own contracts that they themselves wrote.

Exactly how is this fair, and how does it inspire a worker to do well? Especially when it’s called ‘pay per performance’ yet no matter how great you perform, you never get a raise, but watch some paper pusher get raise after raise after raise? While in return we get paycuts, furloughs and benefit cuts.

That is how I view american corporate culture. Keep it all for yourself at the top, at the expense of everyone else.

If that were truly indicative of the market, then wouldn’t you want to try to get into those tiers of management where you get the higher pay?

By the way the managers do not just give themselves pay raises, theose raises have to be approved by the owner or the board of directors represtenting the owners. They only give those pay raises to managers who give the best return on investment. With the Obama ecconomy, sometimes the best performance is the minimalization of losses. But still they wer selected for those possitions and given that pay because it was believed it would help the company as a whole. So instead of complaining about it, workers should consider how to make themselves better able to support the company.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Did you ever think that you got as far as you could as a lot attendant? What were you working towards? After the cars were arranged did you help others out?

Waiting for the reward prior to putting in the effort is not a formula for success.

I was helping out others all the time. Maybe I could of been moved up to sales? With the long 11 hour days I worked not being busy made the day slow , so I was always busy. That kind of questioning hints at you making excuses for the car dealership The hours I put in wrecked my home life to the max, never again.