How old is too old for children to have toys and/or food at Mass?

[Gordon_Sims]

As Yogi Berra once said, “In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.” In practice, there is nothing inherently wrong with distracting a small child and a lot to be said for doing whatever it takes to keep the child from being an undue distraction to anyone else during Mass. You do what you have to do, and you think about the interests of your neighbor week after week after week. As long as the pews aren’t damaged, as long as you leave the building as clean as you found it, and as long as the Mass is not disrupted, you have a lot of leeway up until the child is within two years of making his or her First Holy Communion. Once a child starts closing in on the age of reason, they need to be required to act like a person with reason.

I used a similar argument recently. One of my family members who is pro-candy, chips, gum, pretzels, etc. for kids at Mass told me I needed to keep my youngest ones at home until they’re able to sit through Mass silently and without moving (this was ignoring the fact that, even if I were willing to do that, most weekends I have no choice but to take them all with me). Again, this is someone who still brings candy, drinks, toys and games for the one 12-year-old. I explained that we never leave a mess (we don’t bring food but we do bring sippy cups), we don’t damage the pews (no toys so nothing that can cause damage), and I take the little ones out to calm them down if they get disruptive. They insisted that they’re still too young to get anything from Mass so I’m wrong to bring them. I told them that, even on their worst days, if they spend just 5-10 minutes with me looking at the statues, stained glass windows, etc. and asking about Jesus, Mary and the saints, that’s far better than leaving them at home watching cartoons.

 

[maryjk]

Just a few weeks ago, while I was at work, at our parish, I was asked if I had anything that would clean crayon from the floor.

Yep, someone had brought crayons and paper for their child. And then didn’t notice that said child drew a picture right on the floor.

A couple of months before that, I walked in the church and heard a “crunch.” Yep, it was Cheerios. About half a dozen, now smashed on the floor.

Whatever the age, if you make a mess, please clean it up.

 

[Brendan_64]

It’s amazing how so many of us got through the 50s at Mass without any food or toys. Unless it’s a baby that needs to be fed, or there is a medical reason, no child is going to starve if they don’t have a snack for an hour. There should be no toys except soft ones for very young children. The older ones should be taught to participate in the Mass as soon as they can.

I grew up in the mid-60’s and 70’s and nobody brought food or toys into Mass then either, and if we complained or misbehaved we’d feel the wrath of our mum later. The notion of bringing food into Mass (even for a young child) is horrible. I do think that a whole generation is being brought up now without any notion of the concept of self-control.

 

[jediliz]

When I attended my nephew’s 1st communion in April, I brought my Catholic Picture Bible for my niece who was 5, to look at when she became restless (which was only for a little while). Her parents were in the parents pews behind her older brother (the one receiving HIM for the first time). Her sisters were in the choir loft as members of the Children’s Choir (both sets of Grandparents were out of town) so I was the only one there to sit with her (besides the elderly great aunt who is a religious sister).

I think the only “food” for an older child should maybe be a bottle or tippy cup of water if its really very very hot outside and there isn’t good air conditioning. (of course a diabetic should be allowed to have something on hand in case of low blood sugar) I think definitely any “snacks” should stop by age 5 (unless diabetic). My niece was happy with just the picture bible. We had a little wait before the special 1st Communion Mass even began so she looked at the bible before Mass as well.

I see no harm in books for little ones - little saints books or picture bibles.

 

[esieffe]

We did have toys or food in church, we were ok, I don’t know why others cannot be held to that same standard. I am ok with babies having pacifiers, or any child with teething issues. That is about it.

 

[esieffe]

When I attended my nephew’s 1st communion in April, I brought my Catholic Picture Bible for my niece who was 5, to look at when she became restless (which was only for a little while). Her parents were in the parents pews behind her older brother (the one receiving HIM for the first time). Her sisters were in the choir loft as members of the Children’s Choir (both sets of Grandparents were out of town) so I was the only one there to sit with her (besides the elderly great aunt who is a religious sister).

I think the only “food” for an older child should maybe be a bottle or tippy cup of water if its really very very hot outside and there isn’t good air conditioning. (of course a diabetic should be allowed to have something on hand in case of low blood sugar) I think definitely any “snacks” should stop by age 5 (unless diabetic). My niece was happy with just the picture bible. We had a little wait before the special 1st Communion Mass even began so she looked at the bible before Mass as well.

I see no harm in books for little ones - little saints books or picture bibles.

!

Well, I guess I could get by with this too!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I grew up in the mid-60’s and 70’s and nobody brought food or toys into Mass then either, and if we complained or misbehaved we’d feel the wrath of our mum later. The notion of bringing food into Mass (even for a young child) is horrible. I do think that a whole generation is being brought up now without any notion of the concept of self-control.

I grew up in the 70s. There were other families that brought small snacks to Mass. Ours didn’t. I was the one who acted up. I generally wasn’t loud, just antsy and mischievous. I would be taken outside and beaten when I got really bad, although that never changed my behavior. I’ve had people lambast me for not doing the same to our kids. In my case, my punishment went a little far one Sunday morning. After that we started bringing small snacks and coloring books which eliminated my misbehaving until I was old enough to get through Mass without acting up. Which of the ways my parents handled me was worse?

 

[Brendan_64]

I think definitely any “snacks” should stop by age 5 (unless diabetic).

5? Can 4-year-olds not survive without a continuous supply of food on hand?

Children as young as 3 can sit in silence through a school assembly, why should they need food during Mass?

With the exceptions of a babies bottle, no child needs to have food during Mass.

After that we started bringing small snacks and coloring books which eliminated my misbehaving until I was old enough to get through Mass without acting up. Which of the ways my parents handled me was worse?

And what happens at school? Are children allowed to eat in class and do what they like just because they feel bored? And when children from the local primary school are brought to Mass with their school, do the teachers dish out snacks and let them bring colouring books? And how then are such children able to sit in relative silence during Mass if they go with their school?

I really do think that the whole issue is a symptom of an attitude that children should be given what they want and not be made to do anything that they don’t like doing, and if children aren’t initially given what they want then if they scream loud enough they eventually get it. Teaching children self-control does not seem to be a priority these days, much easier to let them have what they want in order to pacify them. But that simply reflects the general society we live in.

 

[thistle]

Not counting infants and toddlers up to 3 years of course, how old is too old for parents to bring toys and/or food to Mass for children over the age of 3?

Background: yesterday, there was a baptism and there were about 3 or 4 kids that appeared to be around the ages of 4 to 6 playing with matchbox type cars and Barbie dolls. You could not miss them as I was right behind them, and at certain points, some items were dropped forcing the parents to pick up the toys that fell under the chairs.

Another time, there was a baptism, and a few small similar toys (cars and barbies) were dropped (which the parents made no effort to get but others nearby picked them up then gave them to the child or parent) and also after Mass, the ushers had to pick up cheerios and bits of dropped food from a few toddlers/preschoolers that were on the seats or the floor.

When I have gone to EF Masses or EC Divine Liturgy, I seldom see parents bringing toys and food for kids who are older than 3 or 4. If they do, its one item like a stuffed animal or a baby doll that makes no noise, and the parents make sure they pick up the food dropped before leaving.

It doesn’t matter how young they are NO FOOD should be allowed in Church (unless a medical condition requires something, although I don’t see how for one hour only it would be needed).

 

[Faith1960]

It doesn’t matter how young they are NO FOOD should be allowed in Church (unless a medical condition requires something, although I don’t see how for one hour only it would be needed).

Ive stepped in so many crumbs left over from Mass-eaters, it really peeves me.

 

[Faith1960]

I grew up in the mid-60’s and 70’s and nobody brought food or toys into Mass then either, and if we complained or misbehaved we’d feel the wrath of our mum later. The notion of bringing food into Mass (even for a young child) is horrible. I do think that a whole generation is being brought up now without any notion of the concept of self-control.

I agree

 

[pensmama87]

5? Can 4-year-olds not survive without a continuous supply of food on hand?

**Children as young as 3 can sit in silence through a school assembly, why should they need food during Mass? **

.

I don’t give my children food at Mass (besides nursing as infants), but I’d highlight the part of your statement that says “as young as 3.” I’d suggest it’s the rare 3 year old who does not struggle with sitting still at Mass. By 5 or 6, yes, probably most typical kids with good guidance could do it. But you never know just by looking at a kid what they have going on.

I very much emphasize good behavior at Mass, but your statement carries the suggestion that this might be expected as typical child development…which is definitely not true. I’d also argue that some things are highly subject to temperament (my 2 year old tends to behave better than my 4 year old, and I don’t attribute that to my parenting skills - he’s just a calmer kid.)

I think in the past it was just rarer to take kids. Fewer accommodations were made for any situation outside the norm - disabled people may not be able to climb the stairs to the building. People with various illnesses or disorders couldn’t stay that long without a bathroom. Anyone with behavioral problems or visible or audible “defects” was more likely to be shut away from society. I think there’s definitely some not nice aspects involved in “Remember back in the day when everybody was good at Mass and nobody was disturbed?” (I also think selective memory probably comes into play.)

I just don’t see that any good fruit comes from looking at other people who are struggling and saying, “I do this/did this so much better than them.” Even if it is true.

 

[EasterJoy]

I used a similar argument recently. One of my family members who is pro-candy, chips, gum, pretzels, etc. for kids at Mass told me I needed to keep my youngest ones at home until they’re able to sit through Mass silently and without moving (this was ignoring the fact that, even if I were willing to do that, most weekends I have no choice but to take them all with me). Again, this is someone who still brings candy, drinks, toys and games for the one 12-year-old. I explained that we never leave a mess (we don’t bring food but we do bring sippy cups), we don’t damage the pews (no toys so nothing that can cause damage), and I take the little ones out to calm them down if they get disruptive. They insisted that they’re still too young to get anything from Mass so I’m wrong to bring them. I told them that, even on their worst days, if they spend just 5-10 minutes with me looking at the statues, stained glass windows, etc. and asking about Jesus, Mary and the saints, that’s far better than leaving them at home watching cartoons.

No. “Disruptive” is a relative term. A five-year old moving around as much as five-year-olds typically do is not unduly disruptive. Most Catholics of most ages have taken the entire family to Mass as soon as infants could be out among the general public.

Meanwhile, a developmentally-typical 12-year old who has anything whatsoever along has not been taught to “get anything out of Mass.” Truthfully, there are a good number of Catholics who are developmentally delayed and well younger than 12 years old who are still quite capable of attending to the Mass without directing their attention to some distraction their parents brought along.

Catholics, including the little ones, have a right to be at Mass. Even before the age of reason obliges them to be there, they ought to be there unless the parents have come to believe that their participation is counter-productive on the whole. If parents are not forced to that conclusion, bring them!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

And what happens at school? Are children allowed to eat in class and do what they like just because they feel bored? And when children from the local primary school are brought to Mass with their school, do the teachers dish out snacks and let them bring colouring books? And how then are such children able to sit in relative silence during Mass if they go with their school?

I was 3-4 years old. I daydreamed constantly. Mass couldn’t hold my interest. I seldom did anything that could be called disruptive but I couldn’t sit still and pretend to be listening. By the time I went to school I had no problem making it through the school day, but younger than that I needed something to hold my focus. I’m not saying that I wanted something to keep me busy; I literally couldn’t sit quietly through an hour of readings, prayers, etc. Should I have been allowed to quietly amuse myself until I got to the age when I had a little more self control, or should I have have that behavior beaten out of me (an approach that didn’t work)?

I really do think that the whole issue is a symptom of an attitude that children should be given what they want and not be made to do anything that they don’t like doing, and if children aren’t initially given what they want then if they scream loud enough they eventually get it. Teaching children self-control does not seem to be a priority these days, much easier to let them have what they want in order to pacify them. But that simply reflects the general society we live in.

All our children are different. We have a couple who never acted up at Mass. With our others, they’ve improved at varying paces and have had different capacities for self-control at the various stages of their development. I don’t see dragging my kid out to the car and beating her until she settles down as a suitable choice. That leaves me with having to pursue other methods of getting them to behave. There’s no silver bullet that works with each one. If having a bottle gets them through Mass quietly, I’m still not sure why that’s such an evil compared with beating them.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

No. “Disruptive” is a relative term. A five-year old moving around as much as five-year-olds typically do is not unduly disruptive. Most Catholics of most ages have taken the entire family to Mass as soon as infants could be out among the general public.

Meanwhile, a developmentally-typical 12-year old who has anything whatsoever along has not been taught to “get anything out of Mass.” Truthfully, there are a good number of Catholics who are developmentally delayed and well younger than 12 years old who are still quite capable of attending to the Mass without directing their attention to some distraction their parents brought along.

Catholics, including the little ones, have a right to be at Mass. Even before the age of reason obliges them to be there, they ought to be there unless the parents have come to believe that their participation is counter-productive on the whole. If parents are not forced to that conclusion, bring them!

My five-year-old behaves in much the same way I did when I was about her age. The most disruptive she gets is when she’s really into the Mass and whispers lots of questions about what’s going on. I’m likely more of a distraction because I’ve been working on the responses with her so I’m often whispering directions to her on when to say what. Our younger daughter doesn’t get anything out of the Mass itself and is the one I struggle with but I typically don’t have the option of leaving her at home. With the others, my experience has been that the best place to get her to learn how to behave at Mass is at Mass.

 

[Brendan_64]

I think in the past it was just rarer to take kids.

That simply was not the case. Families went to mass together when I grew up and people did not bring food and toys (except perhaps a soft toy for a very young child although that wasn’t the norm) to Mass. Children simply behaved better and at much younger ages (you can see the same in schools). Children today behave in ways that they would not dream of doing even 20 years ago.

I think the issue is a case of ‘indulgence culture’.When children want something they learn that they can get it. If they want to make noise, run up the aisle, eat food, play with toys, throw Mass booklets on the floor, they know that they will be able to do so. This attitude just reflects the self-centred society we live in, all about my ‘rights’ but not about responsibilities.

I am always impressed though on the rare occasions when I attend a Latin Mass parish. There are lots of families there, often quite big families with young children. The children there are not all perfectly behaved, but it is very clear that the expectation of good behaviour is there on the part of their parents, and the vast majority of young children there behave extremely well (even young children) and no snacks or toy cars etc.

What is it that makes these children behave so well? I think it is the example of the adults around them (not just their parents). The children see around them and learn that this is a place where your behaviour must be good.

Compare that to how adults behave in many other parishes, particularly the noise in the church before Mass. I think that is also a large part of the problem Children can’t just suddenly switch from noise to quiet. If we, as adults are giving the impression before Mass begins that it is OK to be noisy, children can’t just ‘flick a switch’ as soon as Mass begins and become quiet. If adults in general came into church quietly and reverently, genuflected, and quietly prayed before Mass began, and did the same afterwards, leaving the chatting until outside the church building then I think children would pick up on this. But we don’t, the reality is that we make more noise than the children these days, the difference is that we generally stop making noise during Mass, whereas they don’t.

 

[pensmama87]

That simply was not the case. Families went to mass together when I grew up and people did not bring food and toys (except perhaps a soft toy for a very young child although that wasn’t the norm) to Mass. Children simply behaved better and at much younger ages (you can see the same in schools). Children today behave in ways that they would not dream of doing even 20 years ago.

I think the issue is a case of ‘indulgence culture’.When children want something they learn that they can get it. If they want to make noise, run up the aisle, eat food, play with toys, throw Mass booklets on the floor, they know that they will be able to do so. This attitude just reflects the self-centred society we live in, all about my ‘rights’ but not about responsibilities.

I am always impressed though on the rare occasions when I attend a Latin Mass parish. There are lots of families there, often quite big families with young children. The children there are not all perfectly behaved, but it is very clear that the expectation of good behaviour is there on the part of their parents, and the vast majority of young children there behave extremely well (even young children) and no snacks or toy cars etc.

What is it that makes these children behave so well? I think it is the example of the adults around them (not just their parents). The children see around them and learn that this is a place where your behaviour must be good.

Compare that to how adults behave in many other parishes, particularly the noise in the church before Mass. I think that is also a large part of the problem Children can’t just suddenly switch from noise to quiet. If we, as adults are giving the impression before Mass begins that it is OK to be noisy, children can’t just ‘flick a switch’ as soon as Mass begins and become quiet. If adults in general came into church quietly and reverently, genuflected, and quietly prayed before Mass began, and did the same afterwards, leaving the chatting until outside the church building then I think children would pick up on this. But we don’t, the reality is that we make more noise than the children these days, the difference is that we generally stop making noise during Mass, whereas they don’t.

I’m not actually that inclined to disagree with you on a lot of this. I think, in general, yes, we underestimate how well typical children can behave, and so they adjust accordingly.

What I resent reading this thread is that there are apparently many people, some of whom don’t even have children themselves, who will see my children acting up and assume it’s because I have no interest in discipline, and that’s NOT true. I DO come into church quietly and reverently. I instruct my children to pray first. Our parish is actually a pretty reverent place (even being an OF parish! Crazy, I know! )

I had a hard time at Mass today. My husband was reading. Even though we picked our best Mass time (9am), our 2 year old was tired and decided he would throw a fit in the pew. I took him out, along with my 4 year old who was also rambunctious. We stood in the back. I got pummelled in the face by my 2 year old who was not happy about my “if you misbehave you will be held and it will not be fun” rule. So I’m holding his hands down too. I’m also six months pregnant and getting to that fun large and awkward stage, and my 2 year old is kicking my baby bump (and my baby is kicking him back, and he’s got some power in his legs now.)

Am I relentlessly consistent in discipline? Yes. I have to be. But that doesn’t mean an automatic result, especially with very young and/or strong willed children.

I think it’s much more productive to assume that parents with young children are really trying, but may be overwhelmed or lost. Even though I didn’t grow up in a church-going household, I did have parents who were stricter on discipline than most and I do see the benefits of that. But what of parents who didn’t have that when they were children? Maybe we could work on being role models instead of saying, “Oh, parents these days are so passive and in my day it was so much better.” Sorry, there is no place where leaving it at that is useful.

 

[SMHW]

That simply was not the case. Families went to mass together when I grew up…

I’ll repeat what I said earlier. I think that families going to Mass together is probably a cultural matter and availability/environmental matter.

When I was a child (late 50s/early 60s) it was unusual for my parents to take me and my siblings to Mass. My parents attended Mass in shifts. Of course there was also the matter of the church having not yet been constructed and Mass being held in borrowed locations that were not conducive to dealing with unruly children. There was the general understanding that children were not required to attend Mass until they reached the age of reason. Once I was in first grade we did tend to attend together unless Dad had duties at an early Mass. (Mom did not care to get the whole family ready for an early Mass time.)

I think in urban locations where there were multiple available Mass times it was not uncommon for families to attend separately even when they did bring children. (Spouses did not always agree in their preferences for early versus late Mass or High Mass versus Low Mass.)

I also think some cultures put more emphasis on attending Mass as a family. My Irish and German Minnesota ancestors apparently did not.

Obviously people who live in remote areas where there is only one Mass time, or where the distance from home to the church is great have attended Mass together as a matter of necessity. But even then it was not unusual for an older child to be left in charge of younger siblings.

Of course none of this has anything to do with bringing food or toys to Mass. I do think that food is seldom necessary although drinking probably is for children under a year and a half. Remember that it is not unusual for nursing babies to want to feed several times an hour during their waking hours.

 

[Brendan_64]

I’m not actually that inclined to disagree with you on a lot of this. I think, in general, yes, we underestimate how well typical children can behave, and so they adjust accordingly.

What I resent reading this thread is that there are apparently many people, some of whom don’t even have children themselves, who will see my children acting up and assume it’s because I have no interest in discipline, and that’s NOT true. I DO come into church quietly and reverently. I instruct my children to pray first. Our parish is actually a pretty reverent place (even being an OF parish! Crazy, I know! )

I do sympathise with you. Unfortunately it is not just their parents that children take example from it is others around them. It would seem that you are blessed with having a reverent parish, but unfortunately that is not the same for many. It often feels more like a kind of social club in the church before Mass begins and while adults can suddenly change behaviour and become quiet children find this difficult. Then there is the example of other children at Mass. If a child sees another child being allowed by his parents to play and run around, then the child will think “Why not me?”.

It is the responsibility of all adults to behave appropriately at Mass, and it is the responsibility of the priest to actively enforce this by words and actions. I’ve seen a silent, withering stare from a previous parish priest silence an unruly child and quieten adults very effectively.

 

[EasterJoy]

My five-year-old behaves in much the same way I did when I was about her age. The most disruptive she gets is when she’s really into the Mass and whispers lots of questions about what’s going on. I’m likely more of a distraction because I’ve been working on the responses with her so I’m often whispering directions to her on when to say what. Our younger daughter doesn’t get anything out of the Mass itself and is the one I struggle with but I typically don’t have the option of leaving her at home. With the others, my experience has been that the best place to get her to learn how to behave at Mass is at Mass.

Children don’t have a duty to be at Mass when they are little, but we have a duty to train them up in the faith. IMHO, if regular Sunday Mass attendance isn’t counter-productive, it ought to be assumed to be productive. If there isn’t much likelihood that a child will have a good experience, it is permissible to leave them at home, but otherwise, I think it is best to give them the habit right from the start. Try to make it as good as possible for everyone involved, but I don’t think you train a child up to see the church as a house of mercy if she never finds any mercy or any tolerance for imperfection in it!