How Should We Dress For Mass?

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Sam Maloney:
This is completely cultural: in my community, no one wears a suit to work, very few wear ties, almost none of the men own suits: in fact, at a recent funeral, I was the only person in a jacket except for one of the deceased’s sons.

In these parts, to wear a coat and tie to mass would be to call undue attention to yourself. In the summer we have a large percentage of tourists, including some who are traveling by bicycle, and I’d hate for any of them to feel they were ‘unworthy’ of attending mass due to their dress…

So long as modest, reasonably clean, and not intended to offend or titilate, I see no excuse to critisize how people dress.

sam
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I feel I must agree with you…I prefer to dress for Mass but sometimes my sons… who work and go to college must come to Mass in their work clothes…the way I see it is they are clean covered and coming to Mass. 👍
 
If everyone at my church were to dress the way growingrape says we are supposed to then that would leave about 10 dressed correctly and the other thousand or so members incorrect.
Better yet, lets tell them that if they don’t dress this way they are what, not welcome? You have to be very careful and I’m pretty sure most priests know that you need to pick and choose your battles. I’m sure in different areas its different, this is a rural Minnesota town and this is the norm for this church and I am certainly not going to walk in and tell all these people they are wrong and I don’t think they are. I think the people at the church I go to dress just great, I’ve never seen too much skin on anybody.
But I have seen new looking jeans, very dressy shorts that look like pants cut off, that type of material, not jean shorts or anything, I’ve seen short sleeved shirts, long sleeved shirts, dresses, just about anything that is not offending, and always clean and spotless. God knows me, he knows I’m a jeans and t-shirt person, he knows my heart, he knows that if I force myself to wear a dress then I’m messing with that dress all through mass since it feels funny and I’m touching it and pulling it down and worrying about it and getting nothing out of mass.
I think this has gotten just out of hand, we all have differing opinions. Dress as you will and get on with life 👍
 
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TheGrowingGrape:
I rest my case.
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You have made no case. And I’ll stress it again - posts like yours cause good and decent people to become confused and distracted. I think we’d all prefer that you not be accusing us of sinning.

So you’ve posted material from a Catholic guide. How does this get transmogrified into Grape’s All-Knowing Dress Code?

In other posts, you’ve admitted to being a Catholic for only three years. Now, we’re glad you’re on “our side” and all… but please, cut back on the lectures.
 
Someone left a pamphlet in the Adoration chapel about a year ago that spelled things out fairly clearly for me. I’ll try to find a link on the net to this story. Maybe someone here has heard of this? It has church-approval, I believe. This is a true story:

*A Catholic priest was alone in the back rooms of the church one evening. It was late at night. No one else was in the building except him. *

He heard voices in the church, the chapel area. He thought someone had broken into the church, so he went to investigate.

He saw before him people praying, and he heard God tell him that these people were in Purgatory. The people before him praying were people who’d sinned in church. There had been a variety of sins they were atoning for: not kneeling when they should’ve been, dressing improperly or immodesly for Mass, people who’d had a habit of talking in church before and after Mass, and people who’d offended God by their disrepectful appearance and conduct.

Because these people sinned in church, they did their Purgatory in church.

I’m not judging all of you. I’m not being holier-than-thou. I am telling you the truth so that you can avoid a long stay in Purgatory, or worse, Hell.

I also consider Jesus Christ the love of my life. I am defending my best friend, who cries bitter tears at seeing His children acting in such a disrepectful manner in His Presence.

This is my motivation. I am defending the honor of Our Lord.

As for all of you who are blaming me for your being distracted in Mass by all the slobs in church today, maybe your distraction is due to your seeing the truth for the first time. I’m not leading you into judging others. I’m showing you the truth. Maybe the distraction and disgust you felt at seeing others dressed like slobs was the Jesus inside of you telling you that what you’re seeing is a sin. It is good that you are repulsed by sin. Don’t ignore that feeling. Act on it.

Instead of keeping silent, maybe you should ACT, and ask your priest to speak out against immodesty.
 
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TheGrowingGrape:
maybe your distraction is due to your seeing the truth for the first time. I’m not leading you into judging others. I’m showing you the truth…
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This is a common Protestant tactic, right? I’m not judging you, I just want to tell you (my version of) the truth, so you may be saved? Sorry. Not gonna buy it.

The disgust I felt was with myself, for allowing these forums to distract me. I will not let it happen again. And don’t take credit for anything - you’re not saying anything original. By the way, you still haven’t explained why “your” dress code is the “right” dress code.
 
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TheGrowingGrape:
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Instead of keeping silent, maybe you should ACT, and ask your priest to speak out against immodesty.
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It’s late, so excuse me if I ramble…

Grape, I believe your heart is in the right place, and I don’t disagree in principal with what you are saying, particularly with the last line of the post above. There are many who push the boundaries of modesty.

However, (don’t you hate it when sentences start this way? 😉 ) I think the reason that this seemingly simple thread is generating so much heat is the whole interpretation of “immodesty”. I would suggest that what would be considered “immodest” in the time of Christ would be different than what would be considered “immodest” today. And I’m not speaking about the extremes - clearly there are extreme limits that are and have always been “immodest”. :eek:

I am speaking in relative terms. We formulate our own interpretations of modesty (is it 2", 8" 12" below the knee, no skin, wrists OK, elbows but never shoulders, etc. etc.) and these interpretations are filtered through the time and culture in which we live. To presume that those things considered immodest in biblical times define modesty today (in absolute terms, like how much skin can show from under my goat skin, whether my sandles lace at the foot or the calf or whether my cloak covers my knees) ignores the fact that human society is different today than it was 2000 years ago.

As Catholics we know there is universal truth and one of those truths is that immodesty breeds a host of sins. And there is a bright line at some point defining clearly immodest extremes. But short of that there are countless shady lines where peoples and cultures have defined modesty over the centuries.

You have your standards of modesty. Good for you. But don’t presume that they must be mine. And don’t tell me that your standards are really God’s. And no, the Catechism doesn’t count unless you can show me the chapter where they outline the details of the dress code for Mass, not just the word “immodest”.

I think we all agree on the value of modesty, we all lament its apparent demise among so many of our brethren and we all would welcome stronger teaching by our priests. But that’s as far as I’m willing to go. I have enough trouble picking out my own clothes. I wouldn’t dare tell you how to pick yours.

And as for how I would dress to meet the President/CEO/Celebrity/King/Nameyourspecialperson, that is irrelevent because all those people are PEOPLE. People wear clothing (or at least they do since the fall from the Garden). People notice clothing. People set standards for appropriate clothing. People judge people on their clothing.

I give God credit for having more important things on His mind.

Blessings.
 
Here’s some authoritative words regarding modesty in dress:
I got this off the following website:

lffa-ollmpc.com/purity_crusade.htm#StandardsInDress

*“A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.” *
—The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI

Mary-like Standards for Our Lady’s Martyrs of Purity Crusade members.

1. Looking to Mary as our guide and model, her dresses in all approved apparitions fully cover her from head to wrists to feet. Should we accept any less for ourselves? Ask yourself - have you ever seen the Blessed Mother portrayed in anything less than this? Have you ever seen her in any of her approved apparitions with even her head uncovered? Could you imagine her in any of the fashions of today even seemingly simple loose fitting PANTS? We should therefore follow her example and not follow any of the worldly fashions.

2. Mary-like dresses have sleeves that extend at least to the elbows, which excludes sleeveless dresses, tops, short sleeves or cap sleeves. (Note: Quarter length sleeves are tolerated, with Ecclesiastical Approval, for the time being until Christian womanhood again turns to Mary as the model for modesty in dress.)

3. Skirts and dresses, following the direction of Blessed Padre Pio, should extend at least 8" (eight inches) below the knee. This would exclude anything shorter than that, such as mini or micro skirts. They are also to be full enough to conceal the figure of the wearer and not reveal. Just because it is a dress, does not mean that it is modest. If the dress is to narrow or has a dropped waist, or is designed in such a way as to emphasize unduly parts of the body, they would be considered immodest and not appropriate for wear. Flesh colored fabrics, giving the example from a distance of ‘flesh’ are improper at all times.

continued …
 
… continued
4. Dresses should fuly cover the chest, back, shoulders and the neckline should not exceed two inches below the pit of the throat, nape of the neck or sides. They should not admit as modest transparent fabrics, laces, nets, organdy, nylons, etc unless sufficient backing is added. They may be used as trimmings. This would also eliminate tight sweaters and blouses or other shirts.
5. This list would also exclude pants, slacks, culottes, jeans, shorts and such, as they have been proven to be men’s attire, and harmfull for women and society at large, and against God’s command in Deut. 22:5. Most unbecoming is also slopping-looking clothing such as jogging pants and oversized t-shirts and such, for both women and men.

*Swimwear for *
women must at all costs be modest. The soul of another could be at stake! Due to the impure society in which we live, all public pools should not be used at all. Prefer instead to have your own swimming pool or swim at another Catholic family’s pool. Even in the these conditions, modesty must be kept in check. Unfortunately, women will not find any appropriate swimwear in any store in any Western country. Some substitutes are biking shorts over which a skirt is placed extending to knee level. A loose top is added. Otherwise, one could simply wear a dark t-shirt and long shorts as a substitute. One could also do as I have personally done, simply discontinue swimming as a penance for the immodesty of others.
7. For Men: Loose fitting, long pants or sufficiently long shorts that come at least to the knee. Long sleeves and pants for Church attire. This excludes all tight clothing, especially immodest swimwear, tight exercise clothing, or topless dressing in public.

SUMMARY:

Our children need to be taught from the youngest age the importance of proper attire that is modest, that is becoming and feminine for women. These guidelines are designed to instill a sense of modesty in both boys and girls, and restore a sense of femininity in girls and women.

Be sure to always sew or purchase clothing that matches these guidelines and you will not be an occasion of sin or source of embarrassment to yourself or others.

Adapted from The Mary-like Crusade by Fr. Kunkel (1944-1969)
 
Here’s a link to a book about what the church says regarding Modesty:

lffa-ollmpc.com/shop/

You’re gonna LOVE the title. LOL! Oh, and you’re gonna hate me even more, but here goes: Immodesty: Satan’s Virtue: A Martyrs of Purity Handbook.
 
Melman:
This is a common Protestant tactic, right? I’m not judging you, I just want to tell you (my version of) the truth, so you may be saved? Sorry. Not gonna buy it.

The disgust I felt was with myself, for allowing these forums to distract me. I will not let it happen again. And don’t take credit for anything - you’re not saying anything original. By the way, you still haven’t explained why “your” dress code is the “right” dress code.
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I agree with you. Growing Grape seems like a very zealous person and I think I would want to have her by my side in certain situations but she reminds me of the Protestant evangelist who told us that to merely have a tv in our home was a SIN! And he also said it was God’s way…not his way. She also reminds me (forgive me) of my Independant Baptist mother.

I’m afraid when people take that tactic it goes right past me.
Now if she had said "This is what I do and how I feel is most pleasing to the Lord’ it might have gained a more receptive argument. However people’s personalities being what they are…some preach loud and hard and sometimes people listen and sometimes they don’t. Some people preach quietly and with humility and sometimes people listen, and sometimes they don’t. I think it will filter through and speak to whoever needs that particular message delivered in that particular way. Growing Grape’s tactis won’t work for me…but they might get through to someone else who is struggling with this and might give them the wake up they need to dress more modestly.

We’re not really against your * message* as such Growing Grape. I think we all agree that modesty in church is vital…its your delivery of your opinions (and your insistence that your opinions and God’s are the same thing…that scares me a bit but not for the reasons you might think) that is putting some people off.

dream wanderer
 
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newsong:
hmmm, sounds like the Amish look:D
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I don’t know. I’ve seen some ankles and a bunch of elbows among the Amish. On occasion even a (gasp!) upper arm! Pretty risque’ by comparison. 😉
 
We should wear a coat and tie, the absolute best we have. If we wear something nicer to a mere social dinner or event, this shows that the said event is more important than Mass. Before Vat. II there was no question. That is when “Sunday dress,” “Sunday best,” and like phrases were coined. Only the best is appropriate for Mass. However, since the abuse of post-Vat. II and the completely irreverent liturgies (even when in accord with the rubrics), presenting Mass as a show to the people in the vernacular rather than a Sacrifice to God, there is clearly also a decline in dress. It is hard to argue that the Novus Ordo (post Vat II) liturgy even merits the finest dress. God bless.
 
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EENS:
We should wear a coat and tie, the absolute best we have. If we wear something nicer to a mere social dinner or event, this shows that the said event is more important than Mass. Before Vat. II there was no question. That is when “Sunday dress,” “Sunday best,” and like phrases were coined. Only the best is appropriate for Mass. However, since the abuse of post-Vat. II and the completely irreverent liturgies (even when in accord with the rubrics), presenting Mass as a show to the people in the vernacular rather than a Sacrifice to God, there is clearly also a decline in dress. It is hard to argue that the Novus Ordo (post Vat II) liturgy even merits the finest dress. God bless.
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I figured this thread would get around to bashing Vatican II eventually now that all the sedevacantism threads are locked. :ehh:

I guess I can blame all my bad style choices on V-II now. That’s a load off my mind. I thought it was just my own bad taste. 😉
 
I didn’t bash Vat II. I stated the fact that the reverence shown at a Novus Ordo (NO) Mass is little, if any, even when in accord with the rubrics. If you could find an Mass not facing the people in Latin, silent Canon, no hand Communion NO, that would be something I would not consider irreverent. I am sick of Vat II sympathizers, or worse, defenders, trying to say it is just as good (or better!!) than pre Vat II. Anyone with an objective opinion knows this is simply not true. Find someone who has never been to Mass nor knows the teaching of the Church. Take him to Traditional Mass and NO. Ask him what it was that the people received at Latin Mass: he would probably say what looks like bread but for some reason they kneeled, did not use hands, had a plate under their chin, etc. showing that this was not simply “bread.” Ask him what he thought of NO. He would say “bread.” Is that not how we eat normal food: with our hands? The way NO has Communion is the absolute least possible reverent way that is practical (the only thing worse would be sitting or lying down, neither of which are practical. God bless.
 
Another person who shows no support… I listed one (of many) things in which the Traditional Mass is more reverent. None of the NO supporters can do this because there is no support. God bless.
 
Never having seen the old Mass in latin (although I am familiar with the old Roman Missal), I can’t speak from experience. I will grant you it is probably a grand and beautiful thing. I would like to try it if I can find an indult Mass in my area but I haven’t been able to so far.

I will grant you that the changes that were made to the rubrics (as opposed to the liturgical creativity that some parishes expanded to) has arguably reduced the spirit of the sacred and probably has correlated with the softening of the faith in many Catholics.

But, in my opinion,… the squishiness among the faithful is not Vatican IIs fault, it is OUR fault. It is we who apparently cannot maintain the fervor of the faith in the N.O. Mass. Maybe the N.O is a challenge from God to see whether we really know what the faith is about? To see whether we can keep the fires burning when some of the bells and whistles are removed? To see whether we can fully engage ourselves in the Mass as active participants rather than casual (no pun intended) observers.

The Mass that I attend is conservative and true to the rubrics and the teachings of the Church. I don’t have any trouble remembering that the Eucharist is the body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ whetner I receive him in the hand or on the tongue (I would imagine that the Apostles didn’t receive on the tongue at the last supper, nor did the early Christians for centuries). If you need to receive on the tongue to not cause your faith in the real presence to lapse, that is your need, your preference and your opinion.

There are parts of the N.O. Mass that I love. There are also liturgical abuses that I have seen in some parishes that I can’t abide. There are parts of the old Roman Missal that are beautiful (particularly in their english translations) that I wish were present in the N.O. mass today. However, those differences are not to blame for my own sins or my own crises of faith when they occur. My weaknesses are mine, they cannot be blamed on V-II.

The Mass is the Mass as established by the Church and I accept it as I believe I should as a dutiful Catholic. If they change it through time, I trust the Church. Christ said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church and I take Him at His word.

But if I can’t keep my eye on the ball the fault is mine, not Vatican IIs. Whether I’m wearing a suit or not.
 
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