How should women act so as not to draw undue attention?

[whatevergirl]

*Serap–congratulations on your pregnancy. I am not sure I ever formally told you that.

I will say that it can be nice to have someone from the opposite sex pay us a compliment. I don’t see anything wrong with the occasional flattery, if you are just minding your own business, and it seems to fall out of nowhere. I will say though, I’m not all that flattered when a man who knows I’m faithfully and happily married and Catholic…still tries to flirt or gives me unwanted attention. I am friendly, but I know I’m not flirty. I think that there are just some men in the world who are classless. And no matter what women here or out in the world do, they will receive ‘undue’ attention.

I believe modesty stems from the heart and mind…and how we carry ourselves and dress should be the offspring of that. I used to wear short skirts, and leather pants just about 10 years ago, and I said to myself, what is it that you are projecting to others? Dressing immodestly…sends a message that a woman is seeking attention. When I see women, especially my age, who are married and dress with cleavage, and middrift tops, I don’t care if their bodies look great–it sends a message that your husband’s attention isn’t enough, or that you’re not receiving attention from your husband at all. That’s it. I don’t judge, but as a married woman,I don’t want to embarass my husband. He means the world to me, and as married Catholic women, we need to be mindful of how we act, not only for our selves, but for how we make our spouses look.

There is a guy in my neighborhood, this comes to mind as I read this thread. He is probably 8-10 yrs younger than me. He is a workout aholic. Everytime I drive by his house, he is jumping rope in his driveway, or on the sidewalk, jogging with no shirt on…and the few times I have passed him while I was out walking, he makes it a point to practically bump into me. It is very embarassing to me. I am married, much older than him, and I now avoid that street altogether. His wife/gf whoever she is, shot me a nasty look one day. I thought I was back in high school for that brief moment in time. lol This man might not know I’m married…I don’t wear a wedding ring when I’m out walking, jogging, etc…or I’m driving by. But, he has someone, whether it’s a wife or not, and he is still ‘looking around.’ So men can be evry immodest, they just act differently. Jumping rope for the world to see, jogging around with no shirt…I mean, it’s hard to miss him. So bottom line is when I have seen him, I now think to myself…he obviously needs attention.

That is the message when we dress immodestly, or act it. I don’t want people thinking that my husband isn’t enough, or that I’m not happy in my marriage. Or that Catholic women are all talk, and no actions. So, just something to think about ladies AND gentlemen. *

 

[FrancisFan516]

We can all “defend” our choices as to what we wear and how we act.

Picture yourself suddenly transported back in time where you suddenly “pop up” in the corner of the room, interrupting a discussion between Christ and His desciples,…they turn to look at you,…will that defence impress anyone in the room?

Mine wouldn’t.

Food for thought.

 

[Serap]

We can all defend our choices as to what we wear and how we act.

Picture yourself suddenly transported back in time where you suddenly “pop up” in the corner of the room, interrupting a discussion between Christ and His desciples,…they turn to look at you,…will your defence impress anyone in the room?

Mine wouldn’t.

Food for thought.

They would look at me and say, “Hello.”

Christ and his disciples were not the kind of men that us women are referring to. These men were holy and would have looked to us as sisters.

 

[FrancisFan516]

All but one in the room were sinners. They became holy.

Anyhow,…it was as I said; “food for thought”, not an invitation for a disagreement, sorry.

 

[whatevergirl]

We can all “defend” our choices as to what we wear and how we act.

Picture yourself suddenly transported back in time where you suddenly “pop up” in the corner of the room, interrupting a discussion between Christ and His desciples,…they turn to look at you,…will that defence impress anyone in the room?

Mine wouldn’t.

Food for thought.

*We dress modestly. My choice of attire would not offend Christ. We are sharing that no matter how women choose to dress, there are some men on the planet who will still pursue. Men have a responsibility also. Jesus spoke to His followers and said…“If you look at a woman and lust for her in your mind, you are committing adultery.” He didn’t say…“Unless she is dressed immodestly, then it’s HER fault.” Largely, women dated very modestly back in Biblical times, yet Jesus spoke those words just the same. We have personal responsibilities to dress appropriately that reflects our love for Christ, but likewise, Jesus won’t be ‘impressed’ with men not taking responsibility for their own actions. *

 

[RedSoxWife]

We can all “defend” our choices as to what we wear and how we act.

We could all “defend” our choices but some choices are clearly better than others. Some choices lead us to sin, others don’t. Some choices, like dressing modestly, shouldn’t need defense (although as you can see here in the early pages it has had to be defended against woman who say that dressing modestly just draws more attention to women, because it’s not the status quo in our culture).

Our discussion was about how women should dress and act. Those of us who have been responding over the last few days do dress modestly, and the last part of the discussion was basically that even when you dress and act modestly there will be men who will choose to have sinful thoughts and act out. Dressing modestly goes a long way, but at a point each of us has to be responsible for our own relationship with God and sin.

Picture yourself suddenly transported back in time where you suddenly “pop up” in the corner of the room, interrupting a discussion between Christ and His desciples,…they turn to look at you,…will that defence impress anyone in the room?

Mine wouldn’t.

Food for thought.

I think you’re missing something in this discussion. Did you read the whole thing or just the last few posts?

We dress and act modestly. We cannot be responsible if, after dressing and acting modestly, there are still perverts in the world who have separated themselves from God through sin.

I’ve reread your comment and I’m trying to figure out how it’s relevant to the discussion. I tried to respond to your statement as I understood it. Maybe I’m missing something. You seem to be pointing out that we’re all sinners. Yes, that’s true. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive every moment of every day to be Holy.

All but one in the room were sinners. They became holy.

Anyhow,…it was as I said; “food for thought”, not an invitation for a disagreement, sorry.

You are on a forum. If you make a statement people are going to respond to it. Particularly when the statement can be read as, well… kind of rude… and, based on our conversation, totally off the wall.

Anyway, as I said before, hopefully I’m reading it wrong… it just didn’t seem to fit.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I liken these topics to the person who wanted to sue McDonald’s because he gained a lot of weight from eating their food. Um, don’t eat there. “But, McDonald’s is on almost every block.” So? Doesn’t mean you have to stop in and eat there. Remember that lawsuit? Think the guy lost.

That being said, there are temptations everywhere. Jesus knew this. While I don’t want to be a near occasion for someone to sin, if I were dressing in a certain way, a man STILL has the responsibility to not linger his stare. Just like the person struggling to lose weight, has the responsibility to not enter fast food restaurants, etc. Just like the person who has a drinking problem shouldn’t enter a bar, if need be. Should we close all the McDonald’s because people are getting fat? No, we have to be responsible. *

 

[whatevergirl]

*We also have to be careful about judging others. When I see a woman at mass wearing shorts, maybe a teenager or a woman in her 20’s, let’s say. I don’t automatically assume that she wants bad attention. It’s hot in Florida, people tend to dress a bit more casual. I think that one should be mindful of what he/she is wearing to mass especially, but I think it’s important not to make that leap. We run the risk of sinning in the sense of judging others, without knowing their intent.

Also, when Jesus spoke to men about lusting after a woman in his heart/mind, and that would be considered adultery…think about that for a moment. It takes effort to keep looking at someone, or churn an image over in our minds, as to think about it lustfully. Lust isn’t looking at a woman, and noticing her beauty. That is not lust. Lust is when a man looks at a woman, then keeps looking …two, three, four glances, and then starts undressing her with his eyes, in his own mind. That is lust. That is what Jesus warns us of. Women can fantasize too. If I start fantasizing about another man, other than my husband…I’m commiting adultery in my mind and heart.

God wanted women to help men, not be a hindrance. Men at the same time, are expected to be strong, and be holy examples for women, too. So…we are a team in this. It isn’t women against men. Let’s start viewing it more like that. *

 

[Sarabande]

*We also have to be careful about judging others. When I see a woman at mass wearing shorts, maybe a teenager or a woman in her 20’s, let’s say. I don’t automatically assume that she wants bad attention. It’s hot in Florida, people tend to dress a bit more casual. I think that one should be mindful of what he/she is wearing to mass especially, but I think it’s important not to make that leap. We run the risk of sinning in the sense of judging others, without knowing their intent.

Also, when Jesus spoke to men about lusting after a woman in his heart/mind, and that would be considered adultery…think about that for a moment. It takes effort to keep looking at someone, or churn an image over in our minds, as to think about it lustfully. Lust isn’t looking at a woman, and noticing her beauty. That is not lust. Lust is when a man looks at a woman, then keeps looking …two, three, four glances, and then starts undressing her with his eyes, in his own mind. That is lust. That is what Jesus warns us of. Women can fantasize too. If I start fantasizing about another man, other than my husband…I’m commiting adultery in my mind and heart.

**God wanted women to help men, not be a hindrance. Men at the same time, are expected to be strong, and be holy examples for women, too. So…we are a team in this. It isn’t women against men. Let’s start viewing it more like that. ***

So excellent and wise!!!

 

[Serap]

So excellent and wise!!!

Whatevergirl is pretty wise in general.

 

[Sarabande]

Whatevergirl is pretty wise in general.

Yes, I would agree.

 

[whatevergirl]

aw, you’re sweet! Wise minds think alike ladies, I’m in good company here! :grouphug:

 

[lobster]

Ya know, I learned from the leader of a study abroad class at my college that women in Mali regularly go topless, but they never shorts- always pants. Over there, wearing short-shorts is akin to a woman walking around topless in America. He said it’s because they have so many kids over there and so much public breast-feeding goes on in the villages, that men just view breasts for the function that they have- feeding babies, not arousal.

However, here in America it can be hard for guys not to view any skin as something to get aroused by, because it is glamourized EVERYWHERE as sexy!

I mean for crying out loud, I’m a guy and I can’t watch 2 minutes of commercials, walk through the checkout line, listen to pop-songs, watch 90% of movies, or go to 99.9% of sites on the internet without be bombarded by sexual messages meant to arouse me! And it’s been this way since I was born!

So I think women need to understand the perception of their bodies that men have been nearly force-fed by our culture. In Mali, it might be okay for a woman to go topless, but I think the ladies in America have the duty to act and dress as modestly as possible.

And the guys of course have the duty to live chaste lives so that women don’t need to wear burkas and cover their entire bodies, in order to prevent lustful thoughts in the guy’s mind.

Some good points and thanks. Though I started this thread because some of the posters in another thread claim that clothing makes no difference at all. It is the actions of the wearer that make a woman immodest or not.
Given that premise, a naked woman should be able to be totally modest if she acts appropriately. I haven’t been adequately convinced of that notion. I can assure those posters if a woman were to walk naked down the street, it does not matter how she acts, she will draw all sorts of undue attention to herself, not excluding inciting people to lust.

 

[lobster]

How about the way men behave? Why do we only focus on women? There are plenty of men who behave badly in public.

No need to take the defensive. It would seem you propose that a women can simply wear whatever and act however. I think our faith calls us to a greater duty than that for each other.

If you believe women to struggle with serious occasions of sins upon encountering men who behave ‘badly’, feel free to discuss appropriate ways for men to act so as not to lead women to sin. I am sure you will get a lot more cooperation from the men who will not find it offensive to learn ways in which to help their fellow sisters along the road to sanctity.

 

[mistfall]

How to not draw undue attention? Don’t stand out. It’s that simple. No pole dancing, straddling chairs backwards, kickboxing, gyrating, slithery cat stretches, etc. And don’t send out invitations. The type where you look someone head to toe and slyly smile, or where you lean in close or place your hand on a man’s thigh, etc. Also, as annoying as it may be, exuberant spirits can attract attention.

So decent Catholic women are deadly dull. We do not flirt. We do not act high-spirited. We expect a man to fall in love with us deeply enough to surrender his freedom by **not **attracting his attention. “Why, look at that girl over there. How well she blends with the others! How bland she is! Or wait… was it the one next to her I didn’t notice the most?”

Hmmmmm.

 

[RainbowGirl82]

Women should act in whatever way they want so long as they are not violating the law through indecent exposure as an example. The idea that women should act a certain way so as not to attract a man’s attention to me is stupid. I mean, what are we? Fundamentalist Muslims?

 

[JACQUE_D]

Well, after having 6 kids, I wouldnt say my body shape is something that I would want to flaunt. Anyway, I dress very modestly, and I would wear a sarong and singlet or t-shirt over my swim suit, or shorts. Women should be free to enjoy the water, but a bikini or even a one piece suit is way too little for me. I still cover my head at church.

 

[Pug]

So decent Catholic women are deadly dull. We do not flirt. We do not act high-spirited. We expect a man to fall in love with us deeply enough to surrender his freedom by **not **attracting his attention. “Why, look at that girl over there. How well she blends with the others! How bland she is! Or wait… was it the one next to her I didn’t notice the most?”

LOL

I didn’t mean that a Catholic woman can’t ever be high-spirited. It will draw attention, though. If you don’t want that attention, don’t display certain types of high spirits. I find that fact of life annoying. The observation on my part was perhaps somewhat off topic, since I tend to not separate the problem of modesty from the problem of unwanted attention. But still, it is part of how I modify my behavior around men. I’m married, so I don’t think it is a good idea to send certain types of inviting signals to men. It might confuse them into thinking I am looking to date.

 

[lobster]

Women should act in whatever way they want so long as they are not violating the law through indecent exposure as an example. The idea that women should act a certain way so as not to attract a man’s attention to me is stupid. I mean, what are we? Fundamentalist Muslims?

It has more to do with clothing, contrary to the assertion that a fully garbed nun can be more immodest than someone unclothed or vise/versa.
But the proponents then claim that any mention of the belief that women should wear anything more than ‘a naturale’ is muslim heresy while at the same time claiming that to believe that women should at least act modestly (if not having the decency to dress appropriately) is also muslim heresy.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Maybe women should just never go out in public. God forbid someone see an action or a piece of exposed skin that would lead them to sin.