How to answer Protestant about knowing the precise moment of being saved

[upbeatjonm]

A good friend of our family is protestant. He says that at the moment you are saved, you can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. This saving moment is very profound. He knows the precise moment he was saved, and can feel the spirit within him.

My question is this; as a Catholic, I have received the sacraments, was baptized as an infant, etc. I have never had a moment which swept me off my feet. He says that indicates that I haven’t been saved. How do I best answer that?

Jon

 

[1ke]

A good friend of our family is protestant. He says that at the moment you are saved, you can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. This saving moment is very profound. He knows the precise moment he was saved, and can feel the spirit within him.

My question is this; as a Catholic, I have received the sacraments, was baptized as an infant, etc. I have never had a moment which swept me off my feet. He says that indicates that I haven’t been saved. How do I best answer that?

Jon

The moment you know you are saved is the moment of Judgment Day when Jesus says “well done my good and faithful servant”.

Do not expect your friend to understand that, as he believes in the false theology of “once saved, always saved”.

This is not Catholic doctrine. Also, salvation is not “a feeling”. It’s not dependent upon your subjective experience. It’s an objective action of God infusing your sould with grace, followed by a lifetime of faith working in love.

How can your friend say for sure that the “feeling” he had was real? Who’s to say it wasn’t false? What if he loses that “feeling”? This type of teaching is quite dangerous, both to those who do not have any sort of “extraordinary” experience as well as to those who cannot possibly maintain it their whole life through.

 

[upbeatjonm]

Thanks, do you know of any good written article that I could share with him to express this from a Catholic viewpoint? I agree with what you say. He is very convinced of his saving moment, and I hope he is right (for his sake). I’m sure the spirit is capable of doing this, but it is not a mandatory sign of being saved.

Jon

 

[truthnlight]

Just as you were born physically to your parents, you were born spiritually into the Family of God when you believed on Jesus! (John 3:3). Please understand that we are not saved because we pray a prayer; but because we believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. It is certainly appropriate to ask the Lord in prayer to forgive and save us; but it is our faith which prompted us to pray the prayer. You could just as easily believe in your heart upon the Lord to be saved, and not pray at all. Salvation is of the heart, as we read in Romans 10:10, “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness…” Galatians 3:26, "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
John 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
Faith is not optimism! I once heard a man say, “Boy brother, you just gotta believe!” Though he was sincere, he was speaking of optimism, not faith. The dictionary defines “optimism” as “The optimistic feeling that all is going to turn out well.” This is definitely NOT faith. I can say all day long that “I believe” a chair will hold me up if I stand on it but that’s NOT faith, that’s optimism. Faith would be for me to go over and stand up on the chair! Do you see the difference? To stand upon the chair would require my trust, my faith, that it will hold me up. One can say he believes in Jesus all he wants to but that is NOT faith unless he actually places his trust upon Christ. Salvation is NOT merely a belief, it is believing on Jesus Christ. Believing requires a personal decision on your part to trust Christ. Salvation is a relationship; a relationship where you become a Child of your heavenly Father. Either you are a Child of God or else you are a child of the devil. Believing that Jesus is real is NOT enough. Even the demons believe that Jesus exists, “…the DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble” (James 2:19). You must not only acknowledge that Jesus is the Savior, you must personally ask Him to forgive your sins. You must decide for yourself to rely 100% upon Christ to take you to heaven. Only Jesus died on the cross for you. Only Jesus shed his blood for you. Only Jesus has the nail-scars in His hands and feet for you. Have you ever made a deliberate, conscious decision (knowing you were a sinner) to rely upon Jesus Christ to forgive your sins and take you to heaven when you die? Have you ever asked Jesus to save you? You surely should remember a time in your life where you prayed in your heart for God to forgive you of your sins and save your soul. If not, there’s no time like the present. Maybe you remember praying many times but don’t know which time you were saved. That’s easy—The first time! God only requires a child-like faith. If you had enough faith to “ask”, then that’s all the faith required for salvation. “ASK, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you” (Matthew 7:7). If you ask Jesus to save you, confessing that you’re a hell-deserving sinner, He will save you. This is a promise from God!, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED” (Romans 10:13). Salvation is of the heart my friend, it is NOT optimism. There are millions of people who are optimistic that they will make it to heaven someday, but they won’t. This is the great deception of religion and good works. The Bible is clear, “The just shall live by FAITH” (Romans 1:17). You must put your faith in Christ!

 

[jlucko]

A Bible verse I always thought was interesting when talking about being saved at a particular moment is 1 Corinthians 9:26-27:

 Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing.
No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.

I would think if anyone could be sure that they were saved, it would be Paul. Why then does he fear that he may still be disqualified?

 

[scylla]

How would he know that the feeling he has is from God and not from the Devil? Then to check which spirit ask if the Spirit leads him into all truth.

Now ask him if he can give absolute true answers on the faith, when he cannot, then he isn’t led into all truth and does not have the Spirit within him. Only one other option.

As he doesn’t agree with all other Protestants and they all claim to have the spirit, it must be a spirit of confusion which is if not the devil, a demon or just his fleshly sinfulness misleading him.

Either way I have never met a Protestant who is full of the spirit and holy, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist but out of the dozens I have interviewed, all have been led by the flesh or sin, and most will readily admit it when you push them.

(now when some Protestant wants to reply “well so are you”, this just illustrates their desire for everyone to be wrong)

Invite the person to repent and reform, leave their sins behind, and seek holiness.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Bishopite]

A good friend of our family is protestant. He says that at the moment you are saved, you can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. This saving moment is very profound. He knows the precise moment he was saved, and can feel the spirit within him.

My question is this; as a Catholic, I have received the sacraments, was baptized as an infant, etc. I have never had a moment which swept me off my feet. He says that indicates that I haven’t been saved. How do I best answer that?

Jon

First of all, salvation is NOT a one time punctiliar only act but a process…
We have been saved…
Rom 8:24-for in hope we were saved
Titus 3:5- He saved us thru bath of rebirth, renewal by the Holy Spirit

We are being saved (a process)…
Phil 2:12- -work out your salvation with fear and trembling
1 Peter 1:9–as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation

We will be saved…
Mt 10:22–he who endures to the end will be saved
Mt -24:13–he who perseveres to the end will be saved
Mark 8:38–he who loses his life for My sake will save it

His answer is subjective and the Mormons use the same type of argument when they have that burning in the bosom. It’s purely a subjective argument. Objectively we know because we see Jesus (a true historical and actual person who is God) tells us how we are to be saved and the Scriptures tell us as does Christian history and the church Jesus established (1 Tim 3:15).

Jesus answered Nicodemus on the same question in John 3:5 "Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?” Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.”

Jesus clearly says we must born of water (baptism) and the Spirit (faith).

Jesus again answers the question in Mark 16:16
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

Then there is Acts 2:38 "Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. "

Notice how Peter says in order to receive the Holy Spirit we must have a unitive act of faith and baptism.

**

Salvation has many components:

1. saved by grace – Rom. 3:23,24; Titus 2:11; Eph 2:5,8
2. saved by faith – Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8; I Peter 1:9
3. saved by confession – Rom. 10:10; I John 1:9; James 5:16
4. saved by repentance – Luke 13:3; II Cor. 7:10; II Peter 3:9
5. saved by baptism – Mark 16:16; John 3:5; I Peter 3:21
6. saved by the Holy Ghost – John 3:5; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 1:13,14
7. saved by endurance – II Tim. 2:10; James 1:12; Heb. 3:6

apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/process.htm**

 

[upbeatjonm]

Have you ever asked Jesus to save you? You surely should remember a time in your life where you prayed in your heart for God to forgive you of your sins and save your soul. If not, there’s no time like the present.

 

[upbeatjonm]

Dear Truthnlight,

You asked if I had ever asked Jesus to be my savior, and asked for forgiveness. Yes I have. Every time I go to confession, and in fact every time we go to Mass, we ask for God’s mercy and forgiveness. Acknowledging Jesus as savior is something Catholics do constantly, and is what our faith is based upon. He is the savior sent to redeem us.

Jon

 

[jfallaw]

I have been a part of many different Protestant sects. Let me start by saying that I have met a multitude of Protestants who love God and try their very best to serve Him as best they know how. But I must admit that when it comes down to it, none of them are actually quite sure they are saved. It shows in the way many will answer the “altar call” to give their hearts to Jesus dozens of times, just in case it didn’t take the first time. Altogether too many of them seem to like the teaching of “once saved, always saved” just because it gives them the opportunity to continue in sin, even if they only believe such on a purely subconscious level. Many of them are content to “believe” in salvation, go to church, tithe, and expect to be richly blessed with material goods and a “good” life, but few are willing to make the sacrifices that Christ asked of us in serving the poor, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and feeding the hungry. Don’t get me wrong, many Protestant churches do great works, but I have found that the motive is usually selfish; they want to “reap a harvest” in material goods or the recognition of others. I have found that the Catholic Church is by far the largest and most giving charitable organization in the world, and few could argue that priests, nuns and lay ministers do their acts of service out of a desire for gain. When I read such verses as, “faith without works is dead”, it seems to me that Protestants with their belief in “salvation by faith once and for all” are not really understanding the concept of “faith”. Faith is a verb, as all Catholics know. jlucko expressed it well with his/her reference to 1 Cor. 9, 26-7. If we don’t constantly strive for salvation, then we don’t really believe in it.

 

[upbeatjonm]

I found the following in the Library on Catholic.com:

“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I *will be *saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

This seems to be a great reply.

Jon

 

[stephanut]

A good friend of our family is protestant. He says that at the moment you are saved, you can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. This saving moment is very profound. He knows the precise moment he was saved, and can feel the spirit within him.

My question is this; as a Catholic, I have received the sacraments, was baptized as an infant, etc. I have never had a moment which swept me off my feet. He says that indicates that I haven’t been saved. How do I best answer that?

POV of a protestant:

I think what he means is that when you accept Christ/ acknowledge Him to be your Saviour (whichever way you want to phrase it), there is a sense of…peace and joy. I’m not sure if cradle Catholics/Protestants feel that way, but I do know that I was lost for a long while, and took the anti-God (it didn’t matter to me then which god!!) view of life for several years. Then one day something hit me, and I realized how stupid I had been, rejecting God all these while, and “gave in”. Since then, my perspective on life and many things have changed, and yes, there is peace and joy because I am certain of the one thing that never changes - God.

Perhaps a Catholic convert could share his/her story?

Your friend might be the “experiencial” sort, for a lack of a better word. Whatever the case, I don’t think that being saved is supposed to feel like a thrill ride, so I wouldn’t tell anyone, Catholic or Protestant, that he “isn’t saved” because he wasn’t swept off his feet!!

 

[SORROWS]

Why would anyone go around asking if they are" saved" or knowing when they are “saved”? Makes no sense to me at all.

If a Protestant or whatever asks me if I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior I would just answer that I’m Catholic - enough said. Don’t bother me with these robotic pronouncements. That sort of stuff just turns me off completely.

 

[puzzleannie]

A good friend of our family is protestant. He says that at the moment you are saved, you can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. This saving moment is very profound. He knows the precise moment he was saved, and can feel the spirit within him.

My question is this; as a Catholic, I have received the sacraments, was baptized as an infant, etc. I have never had a moment which swept me off my feet. He says that indicates that I haven’t been saved. How do I best answer that?

Jon

classic Christian spiritual direction holds that feelings are never a reliable guide for what is going on in the soul. Invite him to move his relationship with God to a level higher than mere emotion. You might also point out that we all know precisely when we were saved, and it was not a moment it was an event, the Paschal Mystery, the events of the Easter Triduum from the Last Supper through the Passion, Crucifixion and death of the Lord, and His glorious Resurrection.

 

[Cat]

SORROWS, I agree with what you say in terms of how you are saved.

But as an ex-Protestant turned Catholic, I can tell you that your answer would cause Protestants to think that you are not saved at all.

They don’t know what you’re talking about when you say, “I’m Catholic.”

Their idea of “Catholic” is very different than what Catholicism actually is.

So I’m encouraging you to expand your answer. Don’t just say, “I’m Catholic.” Tell them what that means, not just the list of doctrines, but what they mean to YOU personally.

I would also suggest that around Protestants, try to use the Bible as much as possible to show them what being Catholic means.

 

[SORROWS]

SORROWS, I agree with what you say in terms of how you are saved.

But as an ex-Protestant turned Catholic, I can tell you that your answer would cause Protestants to think that you are not saved at all.

They don’t know what you’re talking about when you say, “I’m Catholic.”

Their idea of “Catholic” is very different than what Catholicism actually is.

So I’m encouraging you to expand your answer. Don’t just say, “I’m Catholic.” Tell them what that means, not just the list of doctrines, but what they mean to YOU personally.

I would also suggest that around Protestants, try to use the Bible as much as possible to show them what being Catholic means.

It just sounds like such a weird question to ask someone, not humble at all. No one has ever asked me such a thing as all my friends are Catholic and those that aren’t are not religious at all.

You are right, of course, that we should answer sincerely but how can they not know what being Catholic means? In this day and age? I am just surprised as I know nothing about other religions but I know that Jesus Christ is the center (depending on the religion of course). I would assume Protestants are who they are because of their love for Christ. So what is their big deal about Catholicism?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

It just sounds like such a weird question to ask someone, not humble at all. No one has ever asked me such a thing as all my friends are Catholic and those that aren’t are not religious at all.

You are right, of course, that we should answer sincerely but how can they not know what being Catholic means? In this day and age? I am just surprised as I know nothing about other religions but I know that Jesus Christ is the center (depending on the religion of course). I would assume Protestants are who they are because of their love for Christ. So what is their big deal about Catholicism?

For many non-Catholics, if you say “I’m Catholic,” what they hear is, “I am in a false, man-made religion based on works.” That’s what they’re told about Catholics. (And that’s some of the nicer stuff they’re taught!) They don’t know what being Catholic truly means because they’re fed misconceptions and half-truths.

 

[upbeatjonm]

I’m trying to find a polite way of answering his question on how we can be saved without having that warm fuzzy feeling, and perhaps put to rest some of his misconceptions about Catholicism. He is an ex catholic.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

A good friend of our family is protestant. He says that at the moment you are saved, you can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit within you. This saving moment is very profound. He knows the precise moment he was saved, and can feel the spirit within him.

My question is this; as a Catholic, I have received the sacraments, was baptized as an infant, etc. I have never had a moment which swept me off my feet. He says that indicates that I haven’t been saved. How do I best answer that?

Jon

The best answer is Romans 10:9 - For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

In the Creed, Catholics confess with their mouths the Lord Jesus and that God raised Him from the dead every time they’re at Mass. I surely hope no one who professes the Creed every week is lying !

The Bible doesn’t say that everyone will have a Damascus Road experience. Seems that was just what happened to Saul/Paul. The Ethiopian eunuch desired baptism once Philip explained the Scriptures to him.

 

[upbeatjonm]

The best answer is Romans 10:9 - For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

In the Creed, Catholics confess with their mouths the Lord Jesus and that God raised Him from the dead every time they’re at Mass. I surely hope no one who professes the Creed every week is lying !

The Bible doesn’t say that everyone will have a Damascus Road experience. Seems that was just what happened to Saul/Paul. The Ethiopian eunuch desired baptism once Philip explained the Scriptures to him.

What does the Ethiopian eunuch have to do with it?