How to combat porn?

[Charlemagne_III]

Thats the part that introduces ambiguity. Depictions of sexual acts without the intention to stimulate someone sexually would not be considered porn. It can’t always be known what ones intentions were in producing or transmitting a work (the case against Facebook is an example of this). Right now it seems that you are seeking to ban something that doesn’t pass your match your feelings of what is acceptable.

When I was a boy we had an expression for the weird dude who clandestinely looked through house windows for undressed girls.

Peeping Tom.

We have become a nation of Peeping Toms who deny they are still weird.

And now they no longer are ashamed to be caught looking.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

When I was a boy we had an expression for the weird dude who clandestinely looked through house windows for undressed girls.

Peeping Tom.

That scenario is off topic, Charles. And I don’t expect you to find anyone here defending someone violating another’s Fourth Amendment rights to privacy.

But when talking about two people (or more than two, or less than two) engaging in something sexually stimulating where all parties consent you’ll find that the Fourth Amendment also limits what say-so others have on the matter. They are even allowed to record it and share it with other adults that are interested.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

That scenario is off topic, Charles. And I don’t expect you to find anyone here defending someone violating another’s Fourth Amendment rights to privacy.

But when talking about two people (or more than two, or less than two) engaging in something sexually stimulating where all parties consent you’ll find that the Fourth Amendment also limits what say-so others have on the matter. They are even allowed to record it and share it with other adults that are interested.

It’s true that peeping toms are off topic, but the analogy is valid in that some people just can’t resist the temptation to look through open windows at people having sex. The movie screen for hard porn is such a window. And just as the peeping tom does not want to be found peeping, many consumers of hardcore porn are reluctant to admit they are consumers in the very act of defending it.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

It’s true that peeping toms are off topic, but the analogy is valid…]

I don’t agree. But okay.

 

[ethereality]

Porn is protected speech the same way hate speech is protected speech – oh, wait, apparently we’ve decided hate speech isn’t protected. Well then, neither should porn be.

I’m actually inclined to think the reverse should be the case: Speech a dominant group considers hateful may not actually be, whereas pornography is always intrinsically hurtful.

How to combat porn? Live chastely, together with the other virtues, influence others generally (e.g. being happy and open to questions, contributing positively to discussions at work, etc), and contact your political representatives periodically, including speaking at town halls (e.g. city council meetings). Sidewalk counseling outside porn shops may also be good.

Like with feticide, until laws can be corrected, the best is to get people to not want it, i.e. to make the problem and its solution known.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I believe that anybody who wants to watch porn should be able to do so. It’s self abusive and can help kill the “self.” The problem is not with porn, but the people who watch it.

This way of thinking was evident in St. Thomas Aquinas who valued prostitution in his society stating that it acted like a sewer and it needs to be kept in place.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Porn is protected speech the same way hate speech is protected speech – oh, wait, apparently we’ve decided hate speech isn’t protected. Well then, neither should porn be.

I’ve wondered for a long time why the depiction of porn is regarded as speech. It is the depiction of lustful actions, not speech. There is no idea offered, attacked, or defended by porn. There is just shameless enjoyment of sex that is dissociated from love.

And then of course there is this:

youtube.com/watch?v=r0q_VGacfNk

How are all these deaths linked to protected free speech?

 

[Charlemagne_III]

This way of thinking was evident in St. Thomas Aquinas who valued prostitution in his society stating that it acted like a sewer and it needs to be kept in place.

Please supply the exact passage (word for word) where Aquinas defends prostitution.

Thank you.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Please supply the exact passage (word for word) where Aquinas defends prostitution.

Thank you.

Aquinas believed that prostitution could not be dismissed entirely even though Fornication itself was sinful. Aquinas compared prostitution with a sewer in a palace: without the sewer. the palace would he filled with pollution; similarly, if the prostitute was eradicated, the world would be filled with “sodomy.” In addition, Aquinas believed that prostitution should exist to save the chastity of other wornen; just as the use of Food is For the preservation of life; so are venereal acts for the welfare of the human race [ST 2-2.153. 2]. Thus, this rationalization of prostitution as a necessary evil encouraged the toleration of prostitution in medieval communities and the Church. Bishops ran and owned brothels in London and Westminster during the 15th and 16th centuries, and they were not only owners but many were also clients as well. However, although Prostitution via Aquinas’s beliefs was tolerated for the benefit of the community, prostitutes were excluded From the Church if they continued their work. but there was always hope of their conversion.

-There’s one citation, but I read where St Thomas Aquinas talks about this in several places, which would be too much work. Saint Augustine was also quoted as saying basically the same thing.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

-There’s one citation, but I read where St Thomas Aquinas talks about this in several places, which would be too much work. Saint Augustine was also quoted as saying basically the same thing.

I asked you for the exact words by Thomas Aquinas, which this quote is not.

Can you not find the exact passage? Too much work?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I asked you for the exact words by Thomas Aquinas, which this quote is not.

Can you not find the exact passage? Too much work?

I’m not about to dig for it. You and other interested reader can use Google to find out how popular this belief is.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I’m not about to dig for it. You and other interested reader can use Google to find out how popular this belief is.

The popularity of a belief proves nothing. Belief in porn is way too popular.

But porn is the devil’s own lie.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The popularity of a belief proves nothing. Belief in porn is way too popular.

But porn is the devil’s own lie.

You may be right. I just posted what I had personally read. It would be nice to have the precise writings of Saint Thomas Aquinas, but I have yet to locate them. I would suggest everybody take it with a grain of salt, but seriously consider it. What he says is similar to what a social psychologist would say.

Again, I would like to emphasize that I personally think as a psychologist, and believe that anybody wanting to watch porn should be allowed to. Many also believe that porn leads to perversions, and may very well do that, but I believe that people drawn to porn are already perverted. Sure porn will increase the likelihood of a person acting out his or her repressed desires until they recognize that porn is ruining his or her life, and dies to the self. Here we have an addiction, which must be treated and not re-repress perverted fantasies. And this is the pattern that I see, similar to what Saint Thomas Aquinas was likely thinking.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Many also believe that porn leads to perversions, and may very well do that, but I believe that people drawn to porn are already perverted. Sure porn will increase the likelihood of a person acting out his or her repressed desires until they recognize that porn is ruining his or her life, and dies to the self. Here we have an addiction, which must be treated and not re-repress perverted fantasies. And this is the pattern that I see, similar to what Saint Thomas Aquinas was likely thinking.

What I hear you saying is that we must be allowed to feed the addiction.

How does that cure the addict?

 

[Robert_Sock]

What I hear you saying is that we must be allowed to feed the addiction.

How does that cure the addict?

I see it as like AA where the person has to acknowledge that the problem exists, and this is usually repressed to at least some degree, but the porn eventually hits them square in the face where they can no longer deny their perversion. Important spiritual growth can then begin with the recovery process.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I see it as like AA where the person has to acknowledge that the problem exists, and this is usually repressed to at least some degree, but the porn eventually hits them square in the face where they can no longer deny their perversion. Important spiritual growth can then begin with the recovery process.

Or not. Today porn triumphs. There is no sign that it is going away and recovery is coming.