How to forgive Pope Francis

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OneSheep said:
I never thought there would be a need for this thread, but it has come to my attention that there are some Catholics (a vocal minority) that hold something against Pope Francis. They are reacting to his positions on capitalism, the environment, Israel, divorced who want to receive Eucharist, etc, and other issues.

To “hold against” means to take the actions, words, or other characteristics of a person and “hold them against” the value or dignity of the individual. A good way to know if one is holding something against someone is check one’s emotions: “do I feel any resentment toward this person?”.

Here is what the Gospel says to do when we hold something against someone:

Mark 11:25New International Version (NIV)

25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

What has happened in the last 20 years or so in America is that civility in terms of not giving voice to people expressing resentment of others has drastically declined. People can voice their grudges openly on talk radio or TV commentary, and no one thinks anything of it anymore in terms of its sinfulness. Sadly, even some Catholic media sources are giving voice to those who resent Pope Francis, with no shame at all.

The am of this thread is to help people understand Pope Francis, so that they can return to a state of loving and forgiving the Holy Father, and appreciate that the Spirit has placed him in a position of pastor for all the faithful. To stick to this objective, if you do hold something against him, please put in your post the question, something like “Why did/does Pope Francis…?”

Also, this is not a place for gossip or hearsay.
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You find this sort of revolt against Francis uniquely in the United States. Primarily because we have a useless anti-Catholic media who 1) Don’t know squat about the Church or it’s politics and 2) Don’t care anyway because they love manipulating Pope Francis’ words.

The media and the citizenry at large typically view the Church and the Pope through the lens of American politics (which is foolish). They pigeonhole the Pope into a liberal/conservative category and then assume that because Francis is not the Ronald Reagan of the Church then he must be the anti-Christ.
 
Joe_5859 said:
Do you really imagine that Pope Francis was declaring to the world that he believes God does not exist?
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Should I listen to what he said, or what people tell me he meant by what he said? Most of the criticism people get for voicing concern is that they are listening to false reports or media narrative. You are giving me a narrative and expecting the narrative to override the Pope’s words. Do I listen to what the Pope says, or what others say about what he says?
Teek said:
But God does not exist: Do not be shocked! So God does not exist! There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are persons, they are not some vague idea in the clouds … This God spray does not exist! The three persons exist
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I believe he just said there are three persons that exist, and they are not one.
 
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Yes! Forgiveness is greatly needed! It is always needed!

Toward those who are disobedient and guilty of judgment - even rash judgment.

If the Holy Father has not counseled them to sin, then for what does he need to be rebuked?

Rather, the opinionated, judgmental and ego-driven fringe needs repentance and forgiveness for the damage they have done.
 
That we forgive or we hold.

There’s “holding on” after someone has made an attempt to correct themselves, and the affected person willfully holds back forgiveness.

But that’s not the case yet. Disruptive and careless and dogmatic actions of the pope continue daily.

So you presented the two choices as if it really were two simple choices.
 
Our most effective path is prayer and ongoing sacrifice (doing penances, perhaps fasting for the pope).

Less so internet chit chat.
 
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I reject the (deliberate but jejune) overclassification…that making critical observations is tantamount to “hating”.

This is where progressives fail at discourse.
 
“They prefer to cohabitate, and this is a challenge, a task. Not to ask ‘why don’t you marry?’ No, to accompany, to wait, and to help them to mature, help fidelity to mature.”… “I’ve seen a lot of fidelity in these cohabitations, and I am sure that this is a real marriage, they have the grace of a real marriage because of their fidelity.”

-June 16, 2016

"With this Joint Statement, we express joyful gratitude to God for this moment of common prayer in the Cathedral of Lund, as we begin the year commemorating the five hundredth anniversary of the Reformation… While we are profoundly thankful for the spiritual and theological gifts received through the Reformation…”

-November 4, 2016

“I believe in God, not in a Catholic God, there is no Catholic God, there is God and I believe in Jesus Christ, his incarnation. Jesus is my teacher and my pastor, but God, the Father, Abba, is the light and the Creator. This is my Being.”

-September 24, 2013

“True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to Confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: ‘This is your sin, and I will sin again‘. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us.“

-June 15, 2013

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

-July 28, 2013

“I insist that our opinion about the marriage between two people of the same sex is not based on religion, but rather on anthropology.”

-On Heaven and Earth, pg. 114
 
Edward_H said:
That we forgive or we hold.

There’s “holding on” after someone has made an attempt to correct themselves, and the affected person willfully holds back forgiveness.

But that’s not the case yet. Disruptive and careless and dogmatic actions of the pope continue daily.

So you presented the two choices as if it really were two simple choices.
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If we are still “holding on” after we have forgiven, then we are not done yet. There is something else to resolve. If we are still “holding on” then Mark 11:25 applies again, and then again if resentment is still there. This is why this thread is called “how to”. Sometimes forgiveness needs some guidance, right? I think it is best to begin with understanding, and giving people the benefit of the doubt.
 
I’ll make this a lot easier for you so you can see your error more plainly.

Did the father of the prodigal son make his act of forgiveness while the son was wallowing with the pigs?

Or did he wait until his son…did his self-examination, collected up himself, returned to the narrower path, and ask his father to forgive him? Under what conditions was the act of forgiveness given?

Would you have been berating the father for his waiting, demanding that he forgive his son before the (helpful, growth encouraging) self-examination, and decision making to return to the fold?
 
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Spyridon said:
Nice to see all the Pope-haters who came outta the woodwork.
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I think “hatred” is too strong a word though. The words “hold against” are something we can all own up to in certain circumstances, and don’t carry near the stigma as “hate”.
 
Well substantiated. Thank you. A healthy and needed introduction of facts. It was all warm fuzzy feelings and bad logic prior to your post.
 
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Edward_H said:
Did the father of the prodigal son make his act of forgiveness while the son was wallowing with the pigs?
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The Father, who knows all you will do before you are born, forgave you before you were born. Otherwise, he is holding a grudge until you commit your last sin and repent. Does the latter sound like a Father who is “perfect” in love and mercy?
Edward_H said:
Or did he wait until his son…did his self-examination, collected up himself, returned to the narrower path, and asked his father to forgive him?
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The Father doesn’t hold a grudge. Jesus showed us this. He forgave the unrepentant from the cross.
Edward_H said:
Would you have been berating the father for his waiting, demanding that he forgive his son before the (helpful, growth encouraging) self-examination, and decision making to return to the fold?
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No need to berate. God forgives, always.

Do you have a question, Edward? (see the OP)
 
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At least some - probably all of your cut-and-paste quotations are both partial and out of context. This does not serve the truth. Rather, it reveals an agenda.
 
You don’t have that right being you don’t have the authority to tell Catholics that a Pope, Bishop or Priest is leading people astray.

A lay person’s interpretation of Church doctrine is perhaps flawed and can not take the place of the Pope and Magisterium.

Jim
 
They were all covered extensively in the Catholic media when they were current, with the exception of the last one which is an excerpt from an interview style book published when he was still Cardinal Bergoglio.
 
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As a principle - excepting sin - submission and obedience always and everywhere serve the Church. This was Saint Francis of Assisi’s guiding principle. But apparently, there are some here who suppose they are superior to Saint Francis.

With reason, I counsel all to avoid LifeSiteNews, The Vortex and all fringe groups. They are negative. They divide. The are not authoritative. 3 strikes.

We have Bishops to steer the Barque of Peter. Which of us is superior in training, intellect or authority to them?

To endlessly hammer on this is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit.

'nuff said. I’m out.
 
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I think there are many who don’t understand the stance of those who are in disagreement with the Pope. This isn’t a personal issue, (in my opinion) because I don’t feel like he did anything to me worth feeling hurt about. (except maybe the breeding like rabbits thing because I have 8 siblings who are all wonderful as well as loving and responsible parents).

It is more of a theological issue. I have seen so many confusing statements of things he’s said that I just don’t know what his take is. I most definitely do not agree with those who bash him and call him antipope (which is NOT okay), but I do think it is important to discuss the issues of the Church and where it’s going. Statements that he’s made such as the one where he mocked priests who decide to wear the cassock, as if it is feminine attire or allowing communion for the divorced and remarried has led to confusion and scandal.
 
It is a big world. People have opinions. There are Catholics who despise Saint John Paul II. There are Catholics who despise Saint John XXIII, Paul VI, etc.
People also know nothing about history. We have had a remarkable century of holy popes, or at least good sincere, deeply spiritual Catholic popes. This has not always been true. Gosh, folks, read Dante sometime and check out what was occurring in the middle ages! Talk about scandal.
As I write this I have no idea whatsoever whether Pope Francis is a saint or simply a man doing his best, failing at times, to lead the Church. I’m inclined to think he is a good man and sincere Catholic whose habit of speaking out of context and off the cuff has lead to a lot of communication issues. But I remember so well all the criticism about JPII since he was so “out there” in terms of interacting with people, traveling, etc.
One thing that Pope Francis is NOT is the anti-Christ, as some extremely misguided and superstitious Catholics believe. What a hurtful thing for the Body of Christ. I think of poor little long-suffering Catherine of Siena who had to go to Avignon to bring the wimp of the Pope back to Rome, and who always insisted on honoring him as “God’s representative on Earth” despite his manifold failings.
 
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